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Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

Gathomas88 said:
Luke actually had a character arc. He starts off as incompetent rube, learns enough to get cocky and subsequently gets smacked down for it, hard, and then finially becomes a mature, competent, and humble hero, worthy of the title "Jedi" in the last film of the trilogy.

Rey is a Mary Sue. She's good at everything, has to expend basically zero effort or energy to do it, and can already wipe the floor with all the bad guys from the first movie onwards.

She's invincible, basically. She's a poorly written character, essentially just coasting on "gurl power."
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Get over yourself.
 
PoS said:
So youre a Titanic fan then, well that explains a whole lot... :shock:

Why couldnt they have made her an ex-imperial officer, or a princess or something, why make her a carbon copy of the other one? Sure they make them all similar but they could have written up somebody slightly different than the last one at least... unless of course she's Rey's mom.
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You saw about 15 seconds of her. Carbon copy???
 
Kobie said:
Because they haven't been cast yet and there's no script for either?
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Both are better ideas, and can actually explore and develop. This is just "Hey, you know that thing we described? Now we are going to show it to you. Except we're going to set ourselves up to have to leap through some ridiculous hoops to keep true to the claim that the Bothans pulled this off, while actually leading with another british human chick."
 
Gathomas88 said:
Luke actually had a character arc. He starts off as incompetent rube, learns enough to get cocky and subsequently gets smacked down for it, hard, and then finially becomes a mature, competent, and humble hero, worthy of the title "Jedi" in the last film of the trilogy.

Rey is a Mary Sue. She's good at everything, has to expend basically zero effort or energy to do it, and can already wipe the floor with all the bad guys from the first movie onwards.

She's invincible, basically. She's a poorly written character, essentially just coasting on "gurl power."
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This is the first movie, Rey's character arc hasn't fully developed yet. I'm comparing Rey and Luke in the movies they were INTRODUCED in, and Rey certainly takes the cake in terms of being an interesting character.

Rey is not good at everything. She is not this perfect, all-powerful being that she is made out to be. She has a obvious problem with attachment, and she initially wasn't willing to become a Jedi out of fear. In fact, I'd say that Luke's flaws weren't explored in depth at all until Episode V. So I guess we'll have to wait and see in the next movie to see her flaws more in-depth.

Rey's not poorly written. You just think so because you just assume that the only reason she's there is because of "Woman Power". Have you looked around? She is not the only strong female character in the SW Universe.
 
TheGoverness said:
- What is this nonsense about Rey being an expert pilot for the Millennium Falcon? She obviously was not the most expert pilot, seeing as it took her quite awhile to evade those TIE Fighters.
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You're joking, right? The girl's never flown a ship before, and she's immediately outflying professional fighter pilots, and weaving in and out of the wreckage of star destroyers, making it look easy?

Ummm... Hello? At least Luke had the excuse of actually aspiring to the academy before he was picked up. He'd been training.

And she's a scavenger who knows a lot about machinery. Are you surprised that she knows how to fix things?
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Yes, I am absolutely surprised that she knows how to fix the Millenium Falcon well enough that she seems to be able to show Han and Chewie a thing or two about making it work.

Why? Because it doesn't make any damn sense! :lol:

- Rey did not 'effortlessly' beat Kylo Ren in their fight. It took her a good while to defeat him. And Kylo Ren and Darth Vader are NOWHERE near the same skill level. Ren is a bitch compared to Darth, comparing them is stupid.
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Yes, she did. He never even gets close to landing a hit on her, and is thoroughly embarrassed before the end of the fight (again, by an untrained girl, who has no business even knowing how to use a lightsaber).

Frankly, if Kylo Ren is such a weakling, they shouldn't have spent two hours building him up as a badass to begin with. It's just bad writing.

It makes the trilogy's bad guy look like a joke, that we don't need to be worried about.
 
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cpwill said:
Both are better ideas, and can actually explore and develop. This is just "Hey, you know that thing we described? Now we are going to show it to you. Except we're going to set ourselves up to have to leap through some ridiculous hoops to keep true to the claim that the Bothans pulled this off, while actually leading with another british human chick."
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Bothans aren't mentioned in Episode IV. That was ROTJ.
 
Gathomas88 said:
You're joking, right? The girl's never flown a ship before, and she's immediately outflying professional fighter pilots, and weaving in and out of the wreckage of star destroyers, making it look easy?

Ummm... Hello? At least Luke had the excuse of actually aspiring to the academy before he was picked up. He'd been training.



Yes, I am absolutely surprised that she knows how to fix the Millenium Falcon well enough that she seems to be able to show Han and Chewie a thing or two about making it work.

Why? Because it doesn't make any damn sense! :lol:



Yes, she did. He never even gets close to landing a hit on her, and is thoroughly embarrassed before the end of the fight (again, by an untrained girl, who has no business even knowing how to use a lightsaber).

Frankly, if Kylo Ren is such a weakling, they shouldn't have spent two hours building him up as a badass to begin with. It's just bad writing.

It makes the trilogy's badguy look like a joke, that we don't need to be worried about.
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Oh good. This conversation again.

You do realize that we're only 1/3 of the way through the trilogy, yes?
 
TheGoverness said:
This is the first movie, Rey's character arc hasn't fully developed yet. I'm comparing Rey and Luke in the movies they were INTRODUCED in, and Rey certainly takes the cake in terms of being an interesting character.
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Again, she's a Mary Sue, coasting off of "gurl power."

What on Earth makes her "interesting?" She barely even has a personality, as far as I can see. She acts like a Vulcan.

Kylo Ren was kind of an interesting character, IMO, and even Finn. Too bad they basically ruined the one by making him look like an incompetent juvenile boob, and they demoted the other to "comic relief" side kick.

Rey is not good at everything. She is not this perfect, all-powerful being that she is made out to be. She has a obvious problem with attachment, and she initially wasn't willing to become a Jedi out of fear.
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:roll:

In fact, I'd say that Luke's flaws weren't explored in depth at all until Episode V. So I guess we'll have to wait and see in the next movie to see her flaws more in-depth.
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He was a kid, basically being carried by everyone else the whole movie. Again, that was kind of the whole point.

Rey starts off good at everything.

Rey's not poorly written. You just think so because you just assume that the only reason she's there is because of "Woman Power". Have you looked around? She is not the only strong female character in the SW Universe.
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Apparently, someone needs to tell Abrams that. :shrug:

He seems to think that they only count as being "strong characters" if they're trouncing men and stealing the show.
 
Gathomas88 said:
You're joking, right? The girl's never flown a ship before, and she's immediately outflying professional fighter pilots, and weaving in and out of the wreckage of star destroyers, making it look easy?

Ummm... Hello? At least Luke had the excuse of actually aspiring to the academy before he was picked up. He'd been training.



Yes, I am absolutely surprised that she knows how to fix the Millenium Falcon well enough that she seems to be able to show Han and Chewie a thing or two about making it work.

Why? Because it doesn't make any damn sense![emoji38]


Yes, she did. He never even gets close to landing a hit on her, and is thoroughly embarrassed before the end of the fight (again, by an untrained girl, who has no business even knowing how to use a lightsaber).

Frankly, if Kylo Ren is such a weakling, they shouldn't have spent two hours building him up as a badass to begin with. It's just bad writing.

It makes the trilogy's badguy look like a joke, that we don't need to be worried about.
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- I am not joking. She's been in that wrecked Star Destroyer before, I'm not surprised she knows the layout. She didn't make it look easy, she OBVIOUSLY had trouble losing those TIE Fighters.

- Rey has no 'academy' to go to. There are no Jedi left, besides Luke who was in the middle of nowhere at the time.

- The reason why Han and Chewie had a hard time understanding how Rey could fix the Falcon, is because this is showing the transition from the ORIGINAL CAST to the NEW CAST. Han, Chewie, Leia and Luke are no longer the ones in the spotlight anymore. It's Rey, Finn and Poe's time now.


- No she didn't you act like that fight was 3 seconds long. It wasn't. And honestly, I love Kylo Ren as this not all-powerful Dark Side user, because it's the first time I ever saw a aspiring Sith Lord try to live up to the potential of someone as good as Darth Vader. His whole insecurity is that he may never live up to his legacy.
 
Kobie said:
Oh good. This conversation again.

You do realize that we're only 1/3 of the way through the trilogy, yes?
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And that third was a poorly written mess, steeped in some rather heavy-handed "gender politics" propaganda. Hence, why I'm pointing that out.

This new film looks suspiciously similar. The only male member of this chick's squad who even gets a speaking line in this trailer is Forrest Whitaker.
 
Gathomas88 said:
And that third was a poorly written mess, steeped in some rather heavy-handed "gender politics" propaganda. Hence, why I'm pointing that out.

This new film looks suspiciously similar. The only male member of this chick's squad who even gets a speaking line in this trailer is Forrest Whitaker.
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You're letting your politics get in the way of enjoying a good movie.
 
PoS said:
And the main character seems to be another Rey? Couldn't they have chosen another archetype at least? :confused:
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I didn't feel that way. Instead I got the Young Adult Sci-Fi Action Films of the late '00s-early '10's vibe a la The Hunger Games and Divergent. That raises its own problems. But Rey, I didn't get from that vibe.

But does this mean we get to watch Forest Whitaker eye in a galaxy far, far away?
 
That was my first thought, another Rey?
Do a droid, or an alien, and old man, an older lady (not a kid though!)...it's science fiction, its a spinoff story, do something I don't know...slightly adventurous.
AT-ATs coming to knock out a rebel base...in a tropical region rather that ice...see it's new! :)

I agree that Rey's character was boringly good at anything. Where is the coming of age story in that? I didn't get it. Maybe it wasn't coming of age, it was discovering the messiah.
I suppose Disney is firmly in the camp of younger audience, I think I need to accept that and enjoy it for what it is (I will, just saying).
 
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Gathomas88 said:
And that third was a poorly written mess, steeped in some rather heavy-handed "gender politics" propaganda. Hence, why I'm pointing that out.

This new film looks suspiciously similar. The only male member of this chick's squad who even gets a speaking line in this trailer is Forrest Whitaker.
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Female Star Wars characters are not a threat to your penis. Relax.
 
TheGoverness said:
- I am not joking. She's been in that wrecked Star Destroyer before, I'm not surprised she knows the layout. She didn't make it look easy, she OBVIOUSLY had trouble losing those TIE Fighters.

- Rey has no 'academy' to go to. There are no Jedi left, besides Luke who was in the middle of nowhere at the time.

- The reason why Han and Chewie had a hard time understanding how Rey could fix the Falcon, is because this is showing the transition from the ORIGINAL CAST to the NEW CAST. Han, Chewie, Leia and Luke are no longer the ones in the spotlight anymore. It's Rey, Finn and Poe's time now.


- No she didn't you act like that fight was 3 seconds long. It wasn't. And honestly, I love Kylo Ren as this not all-powerful Dark Side user, because it's the first time I ever saw a aspiring Sith Lord try to live up to the potential of someone as good as Darth Vader. His whole insecurity is that he may never live up to his legacy.
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Oh, gheez. Drop the act, will ya? :roll:

You like the fact she's a blatant "gurl power" character, who easily whoops up on all the guys, because you can project yourself onto her. That's what this really comes down to.

That's fine and all. The problem, however, is that if she makes all the bad guys look like incompetent boobs, there's no reason to really root for her. You just kind of assume she's going to win.

Again, that's just bad plotting, and bad writing.

It's made all the worse by the fact that they basically just copied and pasted the plot of A New Hope to make EP7. The simple fact of the matter is that it was a lazy script, with a lazy, invincible (and annoyingly political), hero.
 
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Was that guy in white walking on water or was that just wishful thinking?

Kobie said:
Female Star Wars characters are not a threat to your penis. Relax.
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Come on, Gath aside, similar age, brown hair, eyes, it didn't have an almost identical feel to you at first glance?
 
Gathomas88 said:
Again, I'm sorry, but not all of us want to watch "Xena: Warrior Princess" with lightsabers. :shrug:
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Speak for yourself.

Autolycus,_Publicity_Photo.jpg


That alone would be awesome! ;)
 
Kobie said:
Bothans aren't mentioned in Episode IV. That was ROTJ.
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I am.... ashamed. :( My only excuse is that I am fighting a head cold and hadn't had coffee yet.

I leave the thread with head hung low :(
 
Gathomas88 said:
- Rey learned the force basically completely on her own, with no training.

(Luke had to seek out Yoda, and had force ghost Obiwan telling him what to do.)

- Rey can fly and fix the Millenium Falcon at least as well, if not better, than Han Solo.

(Luke just kind of held his own in the Death Star battle, by way of comparison, and was saved by Solo at the last second.)

- Rey almost effortlessly hands the main bad guy of the new Trilogy his own ass in a light saber fight... again, with no training.

(Luke got his ass kicked by Vader in their first fight.)

Rey is an exaggerated, more or less invincible, parody of Luke from the first trilogy.
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Ren is emotionally unstable, his lightsaber is also unstable, he was heavily wounded in two didferent spots and he hasn't finished his traning.

Luke fought Darth vadar ( a sith lord) with justa couple of days traning in a swamp with an elderley Yoda and held his own for a while.
 
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