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Should Compulsory Schooling be Abolished?

Agnapostate

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I believe that compulsory schooling is a destroyer of individual freedom, and is essentially a one-size-fits-all factory line that functions as a propaganda service. I believe that Americans for a Society Free from Age Restrictions (ASFAR), an organization that I am a member of, makes compelling and relevant points about the tyranny of compulsory schooling.

Position Paper on Education

The guarantee of education is essential in a civilized society. All Americans should benefit from the opportunity to prepare for a successful future. But many do not. For many students, their years of schooling amount to little more than a waste of time and energy. For some, the experience is even worse, degrading, demoralizing, destructive.

The damage wrought by our school system is largely due to three misconceptions:

That all students of normal intelligence are capable of mastering all of the concepts and facts in the public school curriculum, at the time they are presented. Adults who have achieved a level of security in life may find it easy to recognize and accept their own limitations, brushing them off with a ready confession, "I have no head for math" or "I could never understand poetry." But for a child whose entire sense of self-worth is tied to the school grades which will determine his or her future, such failings are not trifles. Today more than ever, when a high school diploma is considered an essential requirement even for minimum wage employment, failure to grasp a required school subject can understandably make a student feel as if the door to a prosperous future is closed forever.

It is well known that readiness to understand and appreciate certain subjects depends on life experience, motivation, and psychological development, which vary from student to student. In the Republic, Plato advised postponing most academic study until the age of at least thirty. For how can a person who has never earned, spent or invested money, paid taxes, or voted in an election be expected to fully appreciate the value of mathematics, economics, political science or history? Many of our most admired and accomplished individuals of the 20th century did poorly in school as children, among them Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Adlai Stevenson, Will Rogers, Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, Albert Einstein. Samuel Clemens quit school at the age of eleven, the same age at which Woodrow Wilson learned to read. Clearly, these individuals learned what they needed to succeed somewhere, at some time, but it was not in school.

That in order to be well-rounded and successful citizens, all adults need to have mastered, at least well enough to earn a passing grade, all of the concepts and facts in the public school curriculum. Most adults today manage their everyday lives quite competently having never understood or long forgotten much of their public school curriculum. It is a rare occasion when one finds oneself trying to remember a concept or fact taught in school because it is actually needed, and in such rare cases, there are plenty of resources to which one can turn which will provide the needed information on the spot. Aside from basic reading and math, most of the necessary skills for work or other areas of life are learned at the time they will be used, when they are most relevant.

Diplomas, advanced degrees and respectable grades are important for future success mainly because employers too readily accept them as predictors of workplace competence. They have little choice. Faced with a pool of applicants with no work or life experience, they have no other way to distinguish between them. Most supervisors know that some of the best employees are the ones with the most undistinguished academic records, but they generally view these individuals as exceptions. In fact, some studies have indicated that there is no significant relationship between academic achievement and job performance.

Because the importance of one’s school record is so heavily stressed by parents, teachers and counselors (not to mention politicians and other community leaders), children who experience early failure in school may come to the conclusion that they can never compete in the world of "respectable" citizens, and look around for other options. Gangs and criminal organizations have no academic admission requirements, and often operate quite successfully in spite of it!

That people other than the students themselves are best equipped to determine the curriculum of public schools. Since the establishment of mandatory school attendance laws in America in the early 1800s, concerned parents, educators, business leaders and politicians have criticized the inadequacy of public educa-tion. Some complain that tax dollars are being wasted on teaching methods that don’t work; some object to subject matter that does not conform to their belief systems; some simply feel that students are not learning what they need to know. Parents who are dissatisfied with the public school system may be able to place their children in private or parochial schools, but although the atmosphere and quality of teaching may differ, the curriculum is usually very similar, since all schools must meet certain criteria for accreditation. For the majority of families that cannot afford tutors and cannot manage to home-school their children, there are simply not many choices, below the college level, in education.

If public schools are failing our children, they are doing so under the direction of professional educators and educational administrators, with a fair amount of input from parents and community groups. To the extent that our high school graduates are illiterate or ill-prepared, they have become that way because of the incompetence or lack of foresight of the adults who oversee their schooling. In such a massive bureaucracy as the public school system, with administrators who often have little awareness of the world outside of their own communities, and teachers with too little time to address the individual needs of students, truly valuable and forward-looking changes are hard to implement.

In other American institutions, the free market reveals what products and services are desired by the public. If a product does not sell, it disappears. If no one uses a service, its providers stop offering it. But since students, as consumers of education, have no choice but to accept what is available, educational institutions have little need to evaluate whether their product is useful or valuable. They are assured of a captive audience and continued funding no matter how poor their product really is.

(Continued...)
 
(Continued...)

We believe that the American education system:

Fails to level the playing field for all. By branding as failures students whose backgrounds, personalities, or talents do not conform with the established curriculum, schools hamper those students’ chances of making successful use of the talents they do possess.

Fails to prepare students. By teaching irrelevant information, or teaching relevant information at a time when the information cannot be practiced and used in "real life", graduates emerge with no clear understanding of what knowledge will be important or useful to them in the future.

Creates a society of non-readers and non-learners.
Because primary and secondary education is compulsory, it is seen as undesirable, something which one must be forced to endure. In the public school experience, students learn to do the least amount of work which will earn an acceptable grade. This attitude often lasts a lifetime.

Discourages creative or alternative intelligence. Because of grading systems, examination of students is generally confined to the most easily measurable kinds of testing. School teaches students to develop a "multiple choice mentality," which may handicap their ability to think "outside the box" and explore new options in decision-making.

Deprives students of the opportunity to explore their own preferences, values and options. In our school system, students are passive recipients of what others have decided to teach them. Too often, they graduate with no confidence, self-motivation or self-worth, for they have almost never been permitted to exercise their own judgment, even in deciding their own futures. It is not uncommon for recent graduates to refuse to make necessary decisions in their lives because they think they are not supposed to!

Possible solutions.

Stop age segregation. If students must be grouped, group by ability levels in specific subjects. This will alleviate the boredom of students who are more advanced in certain areas, who feel that they are wasting their time with insultingly basic material. It will also send the message that everyone has strengths and weakness, and that school is there to help students find their strengths and capitalize on them, rather than to punish them for their failures.

Make public education available to people of all ages. Instead of cramming all of the education into a person’s first eighteen years of life, and expecting that knowledge to be sufficient for a lifetime, does it not make more sense to spread out the educational experience? Allowing adults to enroll in public school classes would eliminate the permanence of early decisions, which may later be regretted. With public education open to all ages, the adult who wishes he had studied calculus, or French, or auto repair, still can. The state may still limit the amount of public education a person can receive for free, without prescribing the ages at which a person may take advantage of it.

Repeal regulations regarding the educational experience of homeschoolers and private schools. Many students who try to break free of the homogenized form of learning public education provides find themselves running into bureaucratic brick walls when they attempt to homeschool or attend an alternative private school which does not conform to the traditional models. Homeschoolers in some states are faced with onerous form-filling and time-keeping requirements which place great burdens on students and parents attempting to home-school, while alternative schools in some states are faced with state regulations that, while perhaps suitable for cookie-cutter traditional schools, interfere with their new educational paradigms. It's time to do away with this unnecessary interference.

Provide more varied educational opportunities, including apprenticeships. It is time for us to recognize that not all people have the same educational needs. Many people need the experience of work before they can appreciate all that school has to offer. Many children in poverty simply cannot benefit from a program that does not immediately improve their family’s welfare, and their own. Creative and artistic children would also bene-fit from alternative types of education, which foster the capabilities that traditional schools tend to discourage.

Change from the report card system to a system of skill certification. By emphasizing achievements, schools would provide more positive reinforcements. This system would also allow employers to have a better under-standing of the competencies of prospective employees, and permit job-seekers to capitalize on their proven skills and abilities.

Allow students to design their own educational experiences. Educators, parents, and counselors will surely play a role in these decisions, but since the student’s own future is at stake, it should be the student who chooses what to study. Of course, a student may choose unwisely (just as many educational experts have), but if the door is open for future educational opportunities, the mistakes need not be disastrous. Designing their own education will help students to discover their own talents and capabilities, and increase their motivation to succeed in their own chosen paths.

Abolish compulsory education. Education is a precious commodity, and before it was made compulsory, students recognized its value. Children of ages past would gladly undergo great hardships in order to gain an education. It is only since it has been forced upon unwilling or unready children that it has become a daily grind, something to be endured or avoided. Even children who want to attend may find school is not a good environment for learning because of the many angry, disruptive, and sometimes violent kids who simply do not want to be there. We bemoan the fact that, even having grown up with compulsory schooling, many young adults still cannot read and do not possess the basic knowledge we expect all of our citizens to have. If school attendance is no longer required, perhaps many children will not learn to read and write quite as early as they would have otherwise, but they will surely, of their own choosing, take advantage of the great opportunities that are offered to them. And they will gain all the more for having chosen it themselves.

It is my duty as a consistent libertarian to object to and oppose such tyranny, and as a social and political analyst, I would be interested in knowing your opinions of such a proposal.
 
A 2-post OP? WTF? Are you related to FutureIncoming? I'm not sifting through all that.

No, compulsory attendance should remain, though I would argue for privatization.
 
A 2-post OP? WTF? Are you related to FutureIncoming? I'm not sifting through all that.

No, compulsory attendance should remain, though I would argue for privatization.

Character limit. Why would you argue in favor of compulsory attendance, given that it is a subversion of individual liberty?
 
Compulsory education shifts the nation's production possibility frontier outwards, ensuring that we all benefit. This becomes even more important with international trade and the consequences of capital mobility. As a nation's average education levels fall behind, you can expect capital flight and a shift in production towards more inferior product

We can also factor in myopia, where youngsters are incapable of making the long term decisions required for lifetime income maximisation
 
Compulsory education shifts the nation's production possibility frontier outwards, ensuring that we all benefit. This becomes even more important with international trade and the consequences of capital mobility. As a nation's average education levels fall behind, you can expect capital flight and a shift in production towards more inferior product

We can also factor in myopia, where youngsters are incapable of making the long term decisions required for lifetime income maximisation

The Tyranny Of Compulsory Schooling - Anti-School Articles
 
So let me see if I understand this correctly.

You're a member of an organisation that fights for the rights of young people, but you would support a law that would make basic academic education optional?

Wow. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

It's hard enough to get kids to take their education seriously when it's compulsory, I can't imagine the number of kids who would totally give up on the idea if they actually had a choice in the matter.

Do you realize the impact a severely uneducated youth would have on your country? I hope you're ready to open your borders up to all manner of qualified immigrants to replace the human ressources void such a genius plan would generate.

No seriously, great idea! The rest of the world's youth would benefit immensely from this, so I guess that's something at least.
 
So let me see if I understand this correctly.

You're a member of an organisation that fights for the rights of young people, but you would support a law that would make basic academic education optional?

Wow. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

It's hard enough to get kids to take their education seriously when it's compulsory, I can't imagine the number of kids who would totally give up on the idea if they actually had a choice in the matter.

Do you realize the impact a severely uneducated youth would have on your country? I hope you're ready to open your borders up to all manner of qualified immigrants to replace the human ressources void such a genius plan would generate.

No seriously, great idea! The rest of the world's youth would benefit immensely from this, so I guess that's something at least.

You are clearly unfamiliar with the manner of rights my organization prescribes. This is our Declaration of Principles.

We, the Americans for a Society Free from Age Restrictions believe that in a free society, government should allow its citizens the greatest degree of freedom as possible without placing the public safety in jeopardy. We believe that the spirit of the Constitution of the United States calls for such a policy. However, we believe that age-restrictive laws legislated by federal, state, and local governments in the United States violate such principles. Therefore, all laws that are based on age should be repealed, and all government policies that discriminate by age should be reversed. Some of those laws and policies are specified below.

1. Voting - Position Paper

1.1. A Constitutional amendment forbidding the right to vote to be denied on the basis of age should be proposed and sent to the states for ratification.

1.2. States should allow people of all ages to vote in federal and state elections.

1.3. County and local governments and school districts should eliminate their voting age and minimum age to hold public office.

2. Free Speech - Position Paper

2.1. Young people should be able to access any form of speech (music, movies, etc...) legal for adults.

2.2. The current MPAA system of rating movies and other ratings systems should be replaced with a system which advises viewers of a movie's content but neither restricts access to a film by age or recommends "appropriate ages" for viewers.

3. The Age of Majority and Legal Emancipation

3.1. The age separating legal adults from "minors" should be eliminated. Until this happens, the number of legal distinctions between adults and "minors" should decrease.

3.2. The ability to apply for legal emancipation, and all the rights adult status entails, should be granted to all citizens of the United States.

3.3. The right to enter into contracts should not be restricted on the basis of age.

3.4. The right of a foreigner to apply for American citizenship should not be denied on the basis of age, and should not require parental consent.

3.5. The right to leave the country or travel between states should not be denied on the basis of age, and should not require parental consent.

4. Corporal Punishment

4.1. The right to be safe from physical punishment should not be abridged on the basis of age.

5. Education - Position Paper

5.1. The course selections and other educational decisions of public school students should not be controlled by either the school or their parents.

5.2. In no instance should public school students be forced to wear uniforms.

5.3. All laws requiring compulsory education should be repealed.

5.4. The Constitutional rights of all students should be protected at school.

5.5. There should be no law requiring parental consent in enrollment into educational institutions, and schools should not require parental consent.

5.6. A decision by parents to enroll a child in school should not create a legal obligation for the child to attend.

5.7. Schools and education policy makers should actively work to create greater academic freedom for students at all levels.

6. The Courts

6.1. Young people should be able to receive a trial by a jury of their peers. (Therefore, young people who register to vote after the enactment of changes called for in this article of this Declaration should be required to serve jury duty under the same conditions as voters previously registered.)

6.2. Young people should have the right to legal representation, with or without parental consent, with an attorney who acts as an advocate for them and not a guardian ad litem.

7. Age Discrimination in Public Places and Businesses

7.1. Businesses should not refuse to hire or serve people simply because of their age.

7.2. As long as laws prohibiting discrimination by businesses on a basis other than age exist, local governments should protect from discrimination by businesses on the basis of age.

7.3. As long as the federal government protects groups from discrimination in employment on a basis other than age, it should extend complete protection from age discrimination in employment to all ages. Until it does so, states and local governments should protect young people from discrimination in hiring as long as those governments protect groups from discrimination on a basis other than age.

8. Economics

8.1. Institutions that offer credit cards should offer cards to financially capable young people.

8.2. Banks should allow financially capable young people to open accounts and take out loans.

8.3. Legal gambling ages should be abolished.

8.4. The right to own property should not be denied on the basis of age.

8.5. The right to work should not be denied on the basis of age.

9. Health and Sexuality

9.1. Rights to medical consent should not be restricted on the basis of age.

9.2. Access to birth control pills and other birth control devices should not be restricted on the basis of age.

9.3. Laws that require the notification or consent of parents for abortions should be repealed.

9.4. Laws fixing a minimum age of sexual consent should be substantially reformed to protect young people's consensual behavior.

10. Travel

10.1. Driving being essential to mobility in our society, minimum driving ages should be eliminated.

10.2. Restrictions preventing young people from renting hotel rooms should be lifted.

10.3. Car rental agencies should rent to young people.

11. Curfew Laws - Position Paper

11.1. Curfew laws based on age should be repealed.

11.2. States should take action to limit curfew laws in townships whose laws are based on directives from state governments.

12. The Drinking Age

12.1. The National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984, which forces states to have a minimum drinking age of 21 (or lose matching federal highway funds) should be repealed.

12.2. States should begin the elimination of their drinking ages.

12.3. All zero tolerance laws based on age should be repealed.

13. Respect in the Media

13.1. The popular and news media should speak of young people in the same fashion in which they speak of older people. References by name should be parallel with references made to older citizens. The age of the subject should not be mentioned unless it features prominently in the context of the story. 13.2. The news media should exercize caution when making generalizations about young people as an age group, including extrapolation from scientific studies. Reporting of psychological studies on young people should be limited to the facts in the study, and should specify any scientific hedges and points of possible error or uncertainty.

14. Right to Bear Arms

14.1. The right to keep and bear arms should not be restricted on the basis of age.

15. Gulag Schools

15.1. Gulag schools (euphemistically called "behavior modification schools") should be abolished within the United States. Attempting to force a young person to leave the country for the purpose of sending them to a gulag school should be a criminal act.

16. Selective Service

16.1. There should be no age-based selective service program.

This is Version 8.1 of the Declaration.
 
While as a Libritarian I agree with Agnapostates basic idea of compolsory, I as a somewhat self thinking person see that kids with no education is foolish. I guess if you wanted to take the state out of it, you would still have to have home schooling, parents forcing there children to go to school. (Can't really imagine parents saying no to this one but I am sure I would be suprised) I guess it is just the moral of the whole thing of the government saying "you have to do it" as opposed to the parents having the ability to tell there kids. I can kind of see it.
 
I suppose you're a "libertarian" capitalist as opposed to a libertarian socialist, because a libertarian socialist would recognize the hideousness of tyranny on all levels, whether governmental or private.
 
I suppose you're a "libertarian" capitalist as opposed to a libertarian socialist, because a libertarian socialist would recognize the hideousness of tyranny on all levels, whether governmental or private.

I am a Civil Libritarian with slight Economic leanings to the left. So in a nut shell yes you would be correct about me.
 
You are clearly unfamiliar with the manner of rights my organization prescribes. This is our Declaration of Principles.

Oh, but I am. I read the whole thing earlier, which reminded me yet again why I'm no longer such a strict Libertarian.

I can adress it point by point if you like, but most of it deserves its own thread.

What would be nice is if you would adress my point. How is an undereducated population going to compete in today's increasingly small world? How will it affect illiteracy levels in your country? What will be the impact on the economy and the immigration laws?

Or you can keep pretending that kids have the same capacity to make level-headed, life changing decisions as grown adults do.
 
I am a Civil Libritarian with slight Economic leanings to the left. So in a nut shell yes you would be correct about me.

But please make no mistake; while I would be forcing my children to go to school I would expect them to challenge my authority. While I want them to know the importance of challenging so called authority I also want my children to have the best chances of a successful life, however they may define success, but no government official or party member has ever gained there position with no education. It is important for my children to have an education that they may, if they so choose, be able to further true American ideals of Libritarianism.
 
Compulsory education shifts the nation's production possibility frontier outwards, ensuring that we all benefit. This becomes even more important with international trade and the consequences of capital mobility. As a nation's average education levels fall behind, you can expect capital flight and a shift in production towards more inferior product

We can also factor in myopia, where youngsters are incapable of making the long term decisions required for lifetime income maximisation

It's amusing that you thought that I would "struggle" with this.

If you were solely concerned with economic benefits, then what is your objection to making post-secondary education mandatory also? It's certainly arguable that we need a population with specialized education also.

As for your claim about youngsters' "underdeveloped mental capacities," has the thought ever occured to you that they could be caused by the mass conformity encouraged by compulsory schooling, rather than alleviated by it? I thought not.
 
It's amusing that you thought that I would "struggle" with this.
But you have...

If you were solely concerned with economic benefits, then what is your objection to making post-secondary education mandatory also?
Tertiary education serves two purposes: human capital investment and screening. The latter tells us how education is used to distinguish between workers. First, we have signalling problems created by asymmetric information (i.e. those with ability need to acquire a relatively scarce certificate to highlight their worth). Second, we have the need for employers to find a mechanism to justify hierarchy (e.g. where workers enter in the 'internal labour market'.

These features ensure that tertiary education stands out such that blanket certification would lead to increased labour market costs. Primary and secondary education is quite distinct: its about increasing the average quality of the worker's human capital. It is vital for understanding economic success.

As for your claim about youngsters' "underdeveloped mental capacities," has the thought ever occured to you that they could be caused by the mass conformity encouraged by compulsory schooling, rather than alleviated by it? I thought not.
Myopia is a feature of our bounded rationality. You may want to construct conspiracy theory, but you're only going to make me chuckle. You really shouldn't be so worried about human nature.
 
But you have...

Again...amusing.

Tertiary education serves two purposes: human capital investment and screening. The latter tells us how education is used to distinguish between workers. First, we have signalling problems created by asymmetric information (i.e. those with ability need to acquire a relatively scarce certificate to highlight their worth). Second, we have the need for employers to find a mechanism to justify hierarchy (e.g. where workers enter in the 'internal labour market'.

While it's true that that's a trait of our current economic system and wider society, as was noted by the position paper that I posted, you are wrong in assuming that it is a socially beneficial aspect of it. There is no legitimate mechanism that can justify hierarchy in an economic system, nor market competitition as a whole, for that matter.

These features ensure that tertiary education stands out such that blanket certification would lead to increased labour market costs. Primary and secondary education is quite distinct: its about increasing the average quality of the worker's human capital. It is vital for understanding economic success.

And again, neither form of certification has the slightest effect on the actual production value of the worker. Unfortunately enough, you seem to be quite an adamant supporter of wage labor without sufficiently noting its negative side effects.

Myopia is a feature of our bounded rationality. You may want to construct conspiracy theory, but you're only going to make me chuckle. You really shouldn't be so worried about human nature.

Labeling opposing viewpoints "conspiracy theory" is a poor escape mechanism, although it is understandable that one who lacked superior arguments would resort to it. My primary objection was that the school system had been specifically designed to create the exact sort of mass conformity that was a staple of Prussian society that later made it vulnerable to the trappings of National Socialism.

Your view of "human nature" is evidently in need of some modification.
 
There is no legitimate mechanism that can justify hierarchy in an economic system, nor market competitition as a whole, for that matter.
You're going to have to end capitalism then (get waving your little red flag!). Hierarchy is required for profit maximisation and tertiary education is the cheapest means to support it.

And again, neither form of certification has the slightest effect on the actual production value of the worker.
That primary and secondary education provide basic skills that then increase the productivity of the workforce cannot be denied. I know its inconvenient for your rights rant, but the nature of the economic benefits are immense. Indeed, its very difficult to refer to a country's economic failures without referring to its education system (e.g. to remove a long tail of low skills, features such as the benefits of comprehensive education have to be considered)

Labeling opposing viewpoints "conspiracy theory" is a poor escape mechanism, although it is understandable that one who lacked superior arguments would resort to it.
You gave the standard conspiracy theory guff because you have no counterargument to the consequences of bounded rationality. Myopia, for instance, is a basic requirement in modeling of youth behaviour (such as the modeling of addictive substance consumption and the failure of standard information systems to ensure rational behaviour).
 
While as a Libritarian I agree with Agnapostates basic idea of compolsory, I as a somewhat self thinking person see that kids with no education is foolish. I guess if you wanted to take the state out of it, you would still have to have home schooling, parents forcing there children to go to school. (Can't really imagine parents saying no to this one but I am sure I would be suprised) I guess it is just the moral of the whole thing of the government saying "you have to do it" as opposed to the parents having the ability to tell there kids. I can kind of see it.

I think Agnapostate is referring to Prussian originated compulsory education to be obsolete in an age where anonymous communication is available to all. This web site is a good example of it, because this very concept is being employed in many colleges and universities. In terms of distance education, message boards have given it a leap forward so to say.
 
I am curious as to why abolishing it is the answer instead of reform
 
Character limit.
Respect it and contain your OP to a single post, if you please. There's no need to quote all that. A simple outline or highlight with a link will due.

Why would you argue in favor of compulsory attendance, given that it is a subversion of individual liberty?

I like how you pre-frame the premise of my answer, forcing me to take the time to reframe the premise of my answer.

**** it, you don't want an actual discussion then I won't give you one.

I support compulsory attendance because I stand firmly against individual liberty in all its forms. Is that satisfactory for you? I'm glad it is.
 
I disagree completely with abolishing compulsory schooling. It is really important for children to have an education and, for the most part, they are generally not able to always determine what is good for them or not. I do think that it should be reformed, and offer more options for students who could benefit from developing certain areas in which they show a promising future, such as math, science, writing, arts, etc. In many places, there are schools that do specialize their teaching, but I think more of them, especially in more populated, poorer areas and more funding and scholarships should be available.

I do agree with changing some age restriction rules/laws. However, most should remain just for the fact that it is easier to teach and influence the average child or teenager than it is the average adult due to the lack of life experience and not all correct behaviors are taught by someone's parents.

Also, not every child develops at the same rate as others. Some children may be more mature than some (in a few cases even most) adults at about age 12, but the vast majority still have a long way to go before they learn what being responsible means and the consequences of their actions.

I don't agree in the drinking/gambling age laws. The other ones are, for the most part fair. I do believe in exceptions based on circumstances though.
 
A 2-post OP? WTF? Are you related to FutureIncoming? I'm not sifting through all that.

No, compulsory attendance should remain, though I would argue for privatization.

That was funny.
 
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