• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Bill Clinton's Military Career

One flew supersonic all weather interceptors in a squadron the did and was subject to callup for VN duty, what did the other do?

Got a Rhodes Scholarship. And because he earned it, not becuase of his daddy's connections.
 
One flew supersonic all weather interceptors in a squadron the did and was subject to callup for VN duty, what did the other do?

I am not disputing that. They are both still ******s though.
 
******s don't fly delta wing single engine all weather supersonic interceptors.

Sure they do. Hell they fly all sorts of aircraft. I know plenty of officers that acted like big girls, and flew F/A-18s
 
One flew supersonic all weather interceptors in a squadron the did and was subject to callup for VN duty, what did the other do?

And only did so periodically, was frequently absent from his duty assignment, wasn't considered good at his job, and was only in there because HWB got him there.

The other guy educated himself to a degree that GWB would never in his wildest dreams have attained. The result? Well lets' look at what Clinton did for our nation and look at what Bush has done. Hmmm....Rhoades scholar does legitimate good for our economy nad builds a world class military capable of unheard of successes. The other, puts us trillions in debt, grinds our military to the nub, and gives us our lowest level of international credibility in history...and for what?

As a former military man, I'll take the draft dodger over the dumbshit we have now any day of the week.
 
Sure they do. Hell they fly all sorts of aircraft. I know plenty of officers that acted like big girls, and flew F/A-18s

They aeren't ******s but that being said flying a delta wing single engine all weather fighter was a far higher challenge than a fly by wire two engine F/A-18. To say anyone who volunteered to do so is a ***** is a joke and only the ignorant would make such a statement.
 
Logical fallacy...lol....nice try though.

Actually a very true statement, flying a Delta Dagger was a high pucker factor proposition.

"Even in peacetime conditions, F-102 pilots risked their lives on every flight. Only highly-qualified pilot candidates were accepted for Delta Dagger training because it was such a challenging aircraft to fly and left little room for mistakes. According to the Air Force Safety Center, the lifetime Class A accident rate for the F-102 was 13.69 mishaps per 100,000 flight hours, much higher than the average for today's combat aircraft. For example, the F-16 has an accident rate of 4.14, the F-15 is at 2.47, the F-117 at 4.07, the S-3 at 2.6, and the F-18 at 4.9. Even the Marine Corps' AV-8B, regarded as the most dangerous aircraft in US service today, has a lifetime accident rate of only 11.44 mishaps per 100,000 flight hours. The F-102 claimed the lives of many pilots, including a number stationed at Ellington during Bush's tenure. Of the 875 F-102A production models that entered service, 259 were lost in accidents that killed 70 Air Force and ANG pilots."
Aerospaceweb.org | Ask Us - F-102 in Vietnam

f102_05.jpg


F-102's lined up in Vietnam the year Bush volunteered to fly them.

I am curious, why did you call my statement of fact a logical fallacy?
 
Last edited:
Because there is no correlation between flying a delta wing aircraft and being or not being a *****. So for you to say "******s don't fly delta wing jets" or whatever is a logical fallacy. A ***** very well could fly that jet. Of course we now get to what we subjectively define as a *****. If flying a squirly aircraft makes you "not a *****" in your book, then you go with that. To me all that means is you do something dangerous from time to time. I know some guys who are base jumpers and they would run like a little bitch when confronted with violence. Hmmm....they are ******s, who base jump.
 
Because there is no correlation between flying a delta wing aircraft and being or not being a *****.

Guess it depends on your definifion of ***** then.

So for you to say "******s don't fly delta wing jets" or whatever is a logical fallacy.

No it's not you saying it is is a logical fallacy.

A ***** very well could fly that jet. Of course we now get to what we subjectively define as a *****.

Exactly.

If flying a squirly aircraft makes you "not a *****" in your book, then you go with that. To me all that means is you do something dangerous from time to time.

How about regular basis in less than ideal conditions.

I know some guys who are base jumpers and they would run like a little bitch when confronted with violence. Hmmm....they are ******s, who base jump.

How about the ones that do it at night during a storm at 690 mph without a emergency chute?
 
F-102's lined up in Vietnam the year Bush volunteered to fly them.

Bush volunteered knowing his 300 hours of training flight time was far short of the required 500 hours for active duty combat operations.
 
And this slimeball was the Commander in Chief...No wonder he was so hated by the military........

BILL CLINTON's MILITARY CAREER


Bill Clinton registers for the draft on September 08, 1964, accepting all contractual conditions of registering for the draft. Selective Service Number is 3 26 46 228.

Bill�Clinton classified 2-S on November 17, 1964.

Bill Clinton reclassified 1-A on March 20, 1968.

Bill Clinton ordered to report for induction on July 28, 1969.

Bill Clinton refuses to report and is not inducted into the military.

Bill Clinton reclassified 1-D after enlisting in the United States Army Reserves on August 07, 1969, under authority of COL. E. Holmes.

Clinton signs enlistment papers and takes oath of enlistment. Bill
Clinton fails to report to his duty station at the University of Arkansas ROTC, September 1969.

Bill Clinton reclassified 1- A on October 30, 1969, as enlistment with Army Reserves is revoked by Colonel E. Holmes and Clinton now AWOL and subject to arrest under Public Law 90-40 (2)(a) registrant who has failed to report..remain liable for induction.

Bill Clinton's birth date lottery number is 311, drawn December 1, 1969, but anyone who has already been ordered to report for induction is INELIGIBLE!

Bill Clinton runs for Congress (1974), while a fugitive from justice under Public Law 90-40.

Bill Clinton runs for Arkansas Attorney General (1976), while a
fugitive from justice.

Bill Clinton receives pardon on January 21, 1977, from President
Carter.

Bill Clinton becomes the FIRST PARDONED FEDERAL FELON ever to serve as President of the United States.


Who gives a flying fart? :roll:
Vietnam was an immoral war.
My dad was a CO.
I have nothing but respect for anyone who REFUSED TO SERVE, on whatever grounds.
 
Listen, we are arguing a non-point. Compared to a soldier or airman who actually served in Vietnam Bush is a ****ing puss. He rode his daddy's coattails and got a cherry assignment. He didn't do jack **** in the military other than fly a plane every once in a while. He didn't do anything special. You are more likely to die or be seriously injured in a car wreck than you are in dying in a plane crash, even in a jet fighter. He wasn't a good officer and he was frequently absent from training. He was the kind of guy real soldiers beat the **** out of in the field, okay? John Kerry was 10 times the warrior George Bush was. He actually led men into harms way. And we all know how many of the troops felt about Longface's service don't we?

Bush's military career in no way realistically makes him more qualified to lead than Clinton. Clinton was a Rhoades scholar, Bush was at best an average student with a history of failed businesses and questionable civil service as a politician. The office of President requires more intellectually than it does militarily. Clinton had an understanding of the politics of being a superpower that Bush did not. Clinton understood where our power came from, Bush didn't or he didn't care. Bush literally reminds me of Lil' Bush.
 
Last edited:
Bush volunteered knowing his 300 hours of training flight time was far short of the required 500 hours for active duty combat operations.

He volunteered knowing nothing of the sort but knowing that the squadron he was volunteering for had already served and might serve again in Viet Nam and being activated he would have put in the hours required. As it was the war began winding down before he reach such a status and the plane he flew was never sent there again. Active duty pilots were called back and put into reserve flying the newer F-4 and pilots not being trained nor needed were rotated out of duty.

Which has nothing to do with the guts it took to train and learn to fly it in the first place and maintain the vital role those squadrons did during the cold war.

Why do you wish to insult the pilots that put their life on the line every time they went up to keep you safe?
 
Listen, we are arguing a non-point. Compared to a soldier or airman who actually served in Vietnam Bush is a ****ing puss.

And that's a flat out lie and an insult to all the airmen who did maintain the vital role of secure the homeland.

You are more likely to die or be seriously injured in a car wreck than you are in dying in a plane crash, even in a jet fighter.

Bull, prove it.


He wasn't a good officer and he was frequently absent from training.

Not according to the record except for the end of his enlistment when the military was rotating out people right and left as the Viet Nam war ended.

So do you insult all NG members like this or is it just Bush you hate?

Bush's military career in no way realistically makes him more qualified to lead than Clinton.

:rofl on of the more absurd statements you have made. Clinton made no bones about his hatred of the military and everything about it.
Clinton was a Rhoades scholar

Whoop ti do, he got a political appointment. Did he graduate?

, Bush was at best an average student

Better than Kerry or Gore.
with a history of failed businesses

Along with most in the oil business then.
and questionable civil service as a politician.

Nothing questionable about it, a very good governor and respect by both sides of the aisle.
Clinton had an understanding of the politics of being a superpower that Bush did not.

Clinton understood one thing, power got him laid.
Clinton understood where our power came from,

No he understood sex came with his power.

Bush didn't or he didn't care. Bush literally reminds me of Lil' Bush.

Funny the guy who whose mantra is "you can't tell what someone is thinking" professes to know what Bush did or didn't like.
 
Why are y'all arguing about B. Clinton and Bush? Neither of them will ever be on a ballot again. :roll:
 
Why are y'all arguing about B. Clinton and Bush? Neither of them will ever be on a ballot again. :roll:

It is the Hillary factor causing all this rehashing.
 
And that's a flat out lie and an insult to all the airmen who did maintain the vital role of secure the homeland.
Bullshit. Don't try that weak **** tactic of straw manning my position to include "all the airmen who did maintain...yayayyaya." My comments are specifically about Bush and you ****ing know it. Let's be grown up about this okay? He may have been a technically good pilot, but Bush was a shitty airman, his own commanders complained about his service record. His flight aptitude test score was in the 25th percentile...the lowest you can get. He had five unexcused training absences for two of his years of service with the TXANG, he requested a transfer to the Alabama ANG where nobody can corroborate that he attended any training dates and he didn't log a single hour of flight time for well over a year, then he left Alabama and returned to Texas where he failed to notify his unit and report for training for a few months, but claimed he put in time to make up his missed drills, although nobody could ever confirm this. Funny how that Bush's records are so mysteriously screwed up and incomplete while there is no history of other pilots records being so circumspect. Everybody knows he was working on Winton Blount's campaign while he was in Alabama. Bottom line, he was a shitty airman. As a former service member I know damn good and well what makes a good service member...it includes showing up to your ****ing unit for training, being their with your unit members when they need you, and satisfactorily fulfilling your service requirements. Bush didn't complete any of these satisfactorily. Tell me again what a badass Bush is for flying a Delta Wing jet fighter...you know the guy who didn't log a single hour of flight time during at least 18 of 36 mandatory training dates. Real troops do their duty satisfactorily, those who don't are called "duds." Bush was a dud who did not perform his duties as required. I am not insulting anyone, I am making an accurate assessment of what a lousy airman Bush was based upon the documented record of his service. I'm also relying on my 16 years of satisfactory service to qualify to make that observation. Eat that.

Bull, prove it.
What? Are you ****ing serious? Good lord you are out of touch. Okay...how about this....The Odds of Dying.
The more specific figures are based on 2001, the most recent year for which complete data are available. Other odds, indicated with an asterisk (*) are based on long-term data.

All figures below are for U.S. residents.
Cause of Death Lifetime Odds

Heart Disease 1-in-5

Cancer 1-in-7

Stroke 1-in-23

Accidental Injury 1-in-36

Motor Vehicle Accident* 1-in-100

......snip..........

Air Travel Accident* 1-in-20,000


Flood* (included also in Natural Forces above)

.....snip.....


** Perhaps 1-in-500,000

SOURCES: National Center for Health Statistics, CDC; American Cancer Society; National Safety Council; International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies; World Health Organization; USGS; Clark Chapman, SwRI; David Morrison, NASA; Michael Paine, Planetary Society Australian Volunteers



Not according to the record except for the end of his enlistment when the military was rotating out people right and left as the Viet Nam war ended.

So do you insult all NG members like this or is it just Bush you hate?
What are you talking about? Towards the end of his enlistment Bush wasn't doing jack **** for service. He was in Alabama working on a political campaign for a family friend and then went back to Texas and requested an early discharge to attend business school. Why do you keep straw manning me on insulting all national guard troops when you clearly know I am taking Bush's service record to task, not all Guards service personnel. Are you that desperate? Do you really think people here are going to buy that line of ****?

:rofl on of the more absurd statements you have made. Clinton made no bones about his hatred of the military and everything about it.
Do you know what the definition of absurd is? I know plenty of veterans who were great soldiers but are in no way qualified for the office of President. How does Bush's unsatisfactory military record and less than stellar school performance make him more qualified than a Rhoades scholar?

Whoop ti do, he got a political appointment. Did he graduate?
Political appointment? Whatever. And what does it matter if he got is degree at Oxford? He didn't flunk out, he voluntarily drooped so he could return to the states. He got a juris doctorate at Yale. He still qualified for a Rhoades scholarship bottom line. Comparatively speaking Bush is an intellectual midget.


Better than Kerry or Gore.
Barely, and what happened to Bush's academic aptitude? Did he just lose it? Kerry handed Bush his *** in the debates. Bush doesn't even have a decent command of the English language.

Along with most in the oil business then.
Lol...what do "most in the oil business" have to do with Bush's failures. His were unique to him. The fact that others tried their hand and failed doesn't really mean much when discussing Bush's aptitude for running a business. He was horrible. It wasn't the market that beat him, it was his lack of ability to effectively run a business.

Nothing questionable about it, a very good governor and respect by both sides of the aisle.
Good lord this is subjective at best. I have seen a slew of criticisms of Bush tenure as Governor of Texas.

Clinton understood one thing, power got him laid.


No he understood sex came with his power.

Why can't you argue this intelligently? You statement lacks any merit. I think this just backs up my concern that you are in desperate retreat on the issues here.


Funny the guy who whose mantra is "you can't tell what someone is thinking" professes to know what Bush did or didn't like.
Did or didn't like? Huh? What thread are you reading? Regardless, I made sure to include "or" in my statement, that signifies that I in fact don't know whether he didn't know or didn't care...his actions as President prove me right in either case. It's one or the other.

...yawn...

Less bullshit, more substance please.
 
According to his released military records, Bush never flew again as a National Guard pilot after April 1972, and was suspended from flying on August 1, 1972, he continued to get paid as a pilot, with flight pay for 52 more days, over 18 months, until his discharge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush_military_service_controversy

So Jr. accepted flight pay, even though he was suspended from flying for failing to show up for his required flight physical.

Isn't that fraud?
 
So Jr. accepted flight pay, even though he was suspended from flying for failing to show up for his required flight physical.

Isn't that fraud?

Don't confuse them with the facts please...they start throwing their poop.
 
Bullshit. Don't try that weak **** tactic of straw manning my position to include "all the airmen who did maintain...yayayyaya."

Oh get off your high horse. The complaint about Bush is that he served in the TANG instead of volunteering for Viet Nam, if you are going to critisize him then you critisize everyone who volunteer for NG.

Deal with it.

My comments are specifically about Bush and you ****ing know it.
And you don't know jack about.

Let's be grown up about this okay?
Kiss off.

He may have been a technically good pilot,
Yes he was.

but Bush was a shitty airman
Bull
, his own commanders complained about his service record.
Bull
His flight aptitude test score was in the 25th percentile
Going in, and only the best of the best got in. Straw man.

He had five unexcused training absences for two of his years of service with the TXANG,
His record was within the requirements of his service.
he requested a transfer to the Alabama ANG where nobody can corroborate that he attended any training dates and he didn't log a single hour of flight time for well over a year
And no one proved otherwise and he fulfilled his duty.

You are just a whiner.

, then he left Alabama and returned to Texas where he failed to notify his unit and report for training for a few months
He fulfilled his duty as required.

, but claimed he put in time to make up his missed drills, although nobody could ever confirm this.
If you can't prove otherwise, you don't have a leg to stand on. But the fact is his record shows he had all the points he needed.
Funny how that Bush's records are so mysteriously screwed up and incomplete while there is no history of other pilots records being so circumspect.
What's funny is how the Bush haters had to resort to phony memo's to try and prove anything.

Everybody knows he was working on Winton Blount's campaign while he was in Alabama.
SO WHAT!!!!!!!!

He was not full time active duty get your facts straight.

Bottom line, he was a shitty airman.
Bottom line he was not.

As a former service member I know damn good and well what makes a good service member..
Your service has nothing to do with what you know about Bush.

Tell me again what a badass Bush is for flying a Delta Wing jet fighter...you know the guy who didn't log a single hour of flight time during at least 18 of 36 mandatory training dates.
They weren't flying his plane any more, they were rotating it out as active duty pilots were being transfered to reserve along with thier F4's, it made no sense to but a reserve pilot back through trained when they had an over abundance of pilots.

You didn't know that did you.


What? Are you ****ing serious? Good lord you are out of touch. Okay...how about this....The Odds of Dying.
You don't volunteer for heart disease, you don't volunteer for cancer.

I have provide an authoritative source for exactly how dangerous the Delta Dagger was YOU are not an authority in the matter YOUR opinion means ZIP.

What are you talking about? Towards the end of his enlistment Bush wasn't doing jack **** for service.
They didn't need him and didn't have a plane for him to fly.
He was in Alabama working on a political campaign for a family friend and then went back to Texas and requested an early discharge to attend business school.
We all know that, there is no need for you to keep repeating it, and it is a moot point. HE WAS NOT A FULL TIME MILITARY. And it you knew anything about the military at the time you would know that there was an abundance of Viet Nam active duty pilots being rotated to reserve status to end our their military duty and the reserve pilots were not need nor were they going to be trained to fly F4's it made no sense to do so.

Why do you keep straw manning me on insulting all national guard troops
Because you keep denigrating their service, Bush was no different from any of them, when you insult him you insult them.


Do you know what the definition of absurd is?
Your post.


Political appointment? Whatever.
Yes.
And what does it matter if he got is degree at Oxford?
He didn't succeed did he.

He didn't flunk out, he voluntarily drooped so he could return to the states.
Why? And provide a cite.

He got a juris doctorate at Yale. He still qualified for a Rhoades scholarship bottom line.
He qualified through his political connections and then couldn't finish.

Comparatively speaking Bush is an intellectual midget.
Since Kerry and Gore did worse what do you call them? Do you have an MBA from Yale?


Barely, and what happened to Bush's academic aptitude? Did he just lose it? Kerry handed Bush his *** in the debates. Bush doesn't even have a decent command of the English language.
Kerry lost every debate just as Gore did.

Lol...what do "most in the oil business" have to do with Bush's failures.
The whole industry in TX and LA collapse during that period, I was there.


Good lord this is subjective at best. I have seen a slew of criticisms of Bush tenure as Governor of Texas.
It's not subjective at all, he was a highly respected govenor on both sides of the isle.

Why can't you argue this intelligently?
OH kiss off, just because you arguments are without merit don't stoop to the invective.


Less bullshit, more substance please.
In all our discussions I am the only one who provides evidence and cites to back up what I say, so speak for yourself.

Here go educate yourself and try chilling out a little before you respond.

Bush Served Honorably - GW Bush Not AWOL - TANG Evaluations of Lt. Bush
 
Back
Top Bottom