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Question About Powered Speakers

<alt>doxygen

<alt>doxygen

"I want MY WALL!"
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So I built a DAW (digital audio workstation). The graphics for that are not really that important, but sound quality is.

Here's my system:
Case : Silent Mid Tower
Motherboard : Gigabyte GA Z270-HD3
Power Supply : 600W quiet
CPU : Sky/Kaby Lake i7 7700k (Kabylake)
RAM : 32GB DDR4/2133 (4x8GB)
OS drive : 500GB 7200RPM HD
Audio Drive : 2TB 7200RMP HD
Samples Drive : 1TB 7200RMP HD
Burner : 24x DVD/RW
Video : HD-530
OS : Windows 10 x64
Monitor : Viewsonic VP2468
Speakers : Old KRK V4's (had for years - never been an issue)

I'm actually using the systems audio output right now. I don't expect super HiFi (I'll go there when more money comes in) but I expect a reasonably clean output, could even tolerate a tiny bit of 60Hz noise if that's all I had to ignore. Unfortunately, when I plug in the KRK's, all hell breaks loose. I can hear noise from everything : from my wireless mouse moving, to files being copied off an external SSD, you name it.

I've isolated everything so it all traces back to one power strip on its own outlet.

I tried a power cord with the ground pin clipped off on one of the speakers, no improvement.

Headphones and some old, non-AC powered speakers are fine - completely clean. The problem is something coupling into the speakers, either via the AC cords, the speaker audio cables (tried several), or the insides of the speakers.

I tried shutting everything else in the room down, no significant improvement. The ISP and TV service comes in through this room, so there IS a lot going on normally, but shutting that down did not seem to help.

Any of you gamers ever have an issue like this? If so, what did you do to mitigate/fix? Isolation transformer? Removing the speaker AC ground didn't help, so I have my doubts about that being a smart expense.

FWIW - this is my first Win10 machine.

Any help is welcome.:(
 
Porkuloss said:
So I built a DAW (digital audio workstation). The graphics for that are not really that important, but sound quality is.

Here's my system:
Case : Silent Mid Tower
Motherboard : Gigabyte GA Z270-HD3
Power Supply : 600W quiet
CPU : Sky/Kaby Lake i7 7700k (Kabylake)
RAM : 32GB DDR4/2133 (4x8GB)
OS drive : 500GB 7200RPM HD
Audio Drive : 2TB 7200RMP HD
Samples Drive : 1TB 7200RMP HD
Burner : 24x DVD/RW
Video : HD-530
OS : Windows 10 x64
Monitor : Viewsonic VP2468
Speakers : Old KRK V4's (had for years - never been an issue)

I'm actually using the systems audio output right now. I don't expect super HiFi (I'll go there when more money comes in) but I expect a reasonably clean output, could even tolerate a tiny bit of 60Hz noise if that's all I had to ignore. Unfortunately, when I plug in the KRK's, all hell breaks loose. I can hear noise from everything : from my wireless mouse moving, to files being copied off an external SSD, you name it.

I've isolated everything so it all traces back to one power strip on its own outlet.

I tried a power cord with the ground pin clipped off on one of the speakers, no improvement.

Headphones and some old, non-AC powered speakers are fine - completely clean. The problem is something coupling into the speakers, either via the AC cords, the speaker audio cables (tried several), or the insides of the speakers.

I tried shutting everything else in the room down, no significant improvement. The ISP and TV service comes in through this room, so there IS a lot going on normally, but shutting that down did not seem to help.

Any of you gamers ever have an issue like this? If so, what did you do to mitigate/fix? Isolation transformer? Removing the speaker AC ground didn't help, so I have my doubts about that being a smart expense.

FWIW - this is my first Win10 machine.

Any help is welcome.:(
Click to expand...

Are there non.powered speakers?
 
Bodhisattva said:
Are there non.powered speakers?
Click to expand...

It's passive vs. active. The ones I'm using have amplifiers built into them which are hefty enough to require their own AC cords. Passive ones - example most headphones are pure passive. Built in speakers use the PC's power.

I have some speakers that use the power from a USB port on the machine to pull a tiny amount of power. The headphones and those PC powered speakers don't have this problem.
 
Porkuloss said:
It's passive vs. active. The ones I'm using have amplifiers built into them which are hefty enough to require their own AC cords. Passive ones - example most headphones are pure passive. Built in speakers use the PC's power.

I have some speakers that use the power from a USB port on the machine to pull a tiny amount of power. The headphones and those PC powered speakers don't have this problem.
Click to expand...

Learned something new... thanks. :)
 
These are the speakers I'm using. Mine are probably 12 years old, so they look a little different, but they are basically like this:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/krk-v4-4in-active-studio-monitor-with-kevlar-drivers?cntry=us&source=3WWRWXGP&gclid=Cj0KEQjwofHHBRDS0Pnhpef89ucBEiQASEp6LNu7XciKroLtxfUpwKVd6YnTZYV9UylZH-bj8Zh6EEcaAuS18P8HAQ&kwid=productads-adid^156727059247-device^c-plaid^140859210981-sku^J46761000000000@ADL4MF-adType^PLA

They have gone up in price, though they weren't exactly cheap when I bought them.
 
Porkuloss said:
So I built a DAW (digital audio workstation). The graphics for that are not really that important, but sound quality is.

Here's my system:
Case : Silent Mid Tower
Motherboard : Gigabyte GA Z270-HD3
Power Supply : 600W quiet
CPU : Sky/Kaby Lake i7 7700k (Kabylake)
RAM : 32GB DDR4/2133 (4x8GB)
OS drive : 500GB 7200RPM HD
Audio Drive : 2TB 7200RMP HD
Samples Drive : 1TB 7200RMP HD
Burner : 24x DVD/RW
Video : HD-530
OS : Windows 10 x64
Monitor : Viewsonic VP2468
Speakers : Old KRK V4's (had for years - never been an issue)

I'm actually using the systems audio output right now. I don't expect super HiFi (I'll go there when more money comes in) but I expect a reasonably clean output, could even tolerate a tiny bit of 60Hz noise if that's all I had to ignore. Unfortunately, when I plug in the KRK's, all hell breaks loose. I can hear noise from everything : from my wireless mouse moving, to files being copied off an external SSD, you name it.

I've isolated everything so it all traces back to one power strip on its own outlet.

I tried a power cord with the ground pin clipped off on one of the speakers, no improvement.

Headphones and some old, non-AC powered speakers are fine - completely clean. The problem is something coupling into the speakers, either via the AC cords, the speaker audio cables (tried several), or the insides of the speakers.

I tried shutting everything else in the room down, no significant improvement. The ISP and TV service comes in through this room, so there IS a lot going on normally, but shutting that down did not seem to help.

Any of you gamers ever have an issue like this? If so, what did you do to mitigate/fix? Isolation transformer? Removing the speaker AC ground didn't help, so I have my doubts about that being a smart expense.

FWIW - this is my first Win10 machine.

Any help is welcome.:(
Click to expand...

I would say plug them into something else to test them, if they sound clean, it would be in the sound card or os drivers.

I would lean sound card, Since your motherboard is integrated, some of them do poorly with amplified sound or even sound volume up too high. To be truthfull though I have not had to deal with this issue since win 98 computersm and the old soundblaster isa cards that were bad at distortion and needed an oscillascope to diagnose.

Also a suggestion too is to check the drivers, are they from a driver disk that came from your motherboard, or are they generic windows drivers, or specific drivers that are up to date?
 
beerftw said:
I would say plug them into something else to test them, if they sound clean, it would be in the sound card or os drivers.

I would lean sound card, Since your motherboard is integrated, some of them do poorly with amplified sound or even sound volume up too high. To be truthfull though I have not had to deal with this issue since win 98 computersm and the old soundblaster isa cards that were bad at distortion and needed an oscillascope to diagnose.

Also a suggestion too is to check the drivers, are they from a driver disk that came from your motherboard, or are they generic windows drivers, or specific drivers that are up to date?
Click to expand...

The thing that exonerates the sound card (integrated into the motherboard) is that plugging small speakers or headphones give clean sound. I was thinking all of the evidence points to the noise coupling in from the PC as well, until you throw in the headphone and small speaker tests.

I do have an O'scope, which I can dig up if I have to. The problem is grounding the probe (where for a valid test?). I think I'll do some continuity testing and make sure everything is really on the same ground.

The whole system was just built, and all of the windows stuff is 'supposed' to be up to date.

I can also take the speakers to another computer and try them. They were fine before, but we just moved into a new house and maybe they got messed up during that process.

Thanks for the input.
 
Porkuloss said:
The thing that exonerates the sound card (integrated into the motherboard) is that plugging small speakers or headphones give clean sound. I was thinking all of the evidence points to the noise coupling in from the PC as well, until you throw in the headphone and small speaker tests.

I do have an O'scope, which I can dig up if I have to. The problem is grounding the probe (where for a valid test?). I think I'll do some continuity testing and make sure everything is really on the same ground.

The whole system was just built, and all of the windows stuff is 'supposed' to be up to date.

I can also take the speakers to another computer and try them. They were fine before, but we just moved into a new house and maybe they got messed up during that process.

Thanks for the input.
Click to expand...

Plugging in headphones does not clear it though, sometimes amplified sound picks up everything normal speakers do not. Try your speakers on a different device, but leave them where they are hooked up now and do not move them away from the area they had issues, if the noise continues it is interferance or it is the speakers.

If the noise goes away it is os drivers or sound card. If the sound card has an issue or the motherboard manufacturor made an error in shielding, it could pick up static from all over the computer. The best thing to do is isolate it to the problem, which could go either way.
 
beerftw said:
Plugging in headphones does not clear it though, sometimes amplified sound picks up everything normal speakers do not. Try your speakers on a different device, but leave them where they are hooked up now and do not move them away from the area they had issues, if the noise continues it is interferance or it is the speakers.

If the noise goes away it is os drivers or sound card. If the sound card has an issue or the motherboard manufacturor made an error in shielding, it could pick up static from all over the computer. The best thing to do is isolate it to the problem, which could go either way.
Click to expand...

I'm going to do that. The only candidate computer is my wife's desktop, which is kind of wired around a piece of furniture. I'll need to isolate several hours where she doesn't need it. I already took the speakers to that machine - pristine, with the ground prong on the speaker AC cords. My laptop has a trashed audio out, so it's no help.

Thanks again!:)
 
Porkuloss said:
So I built a DAW (digital audio workstation). The graphics for that are not really that important, but sound quality is.

Here's my system:
Case : Silent Mid Tower
Motherboard : Gigabyte GA Z270-HD3
Power Supply : 600W quiet
CPU : Sky/Kaby Lake i7 7700k (Kabylake)
RAM : 32GB DDR4/2133 (4x8GB)
OS drive : 500GB 7200RPM HD
Audio Drive : 2TB 7200RMP HD
Samples Drive : 1TB 7200RMP HD
Burner : 24x DVD/RW
Video : HD-530
OS : Windows 10 x64
Monitor : Viewsonic VP2468
Speakers : Old KRK V4's (had for years - never been an issue)

I'm actually using the systems audio output right now. I don't expect super HiFi (I'll go there when more money comes in) but I expect a reasonably clean output, could even tolerate a tiny bit of 60Hz noise if that's all I had to ignore. Unfortunately, when I plug in the KRK's, all hell breaks loose. I can hear noise from everything : from my wireless mouse moving, to files being copied off an external SSD, you name it.

I've isolated everything so it all traces back to one power strip on its own outlet.

I tried a power cord with the ground pin clipped off on one of the speakers, no improvement.

Headphones and some old, non-AC powered speakers are fine - completely clean. The problem is something coupling into the speakers, either via the AC cords, the speaker audio cables (tried several), or the insides of the speakers.

I tried shutting everything else in the room down, no significant improvement. The ISP and TV service comes in through this room, so there IS a lot going on normally, but shutting that down did not seem to help.

Any of you gamers ever have an issue like this? If so, what did you do to mitigate/fix? Isolation transformer? Removing the speaker AC ground didn't help, so I have my doubts about that being a smart expense.

FWIW - this is my first Win10 machine.

Any help is welcome.:(
Click to expand...



Are you plugging them all in to the same power strip? If so, is it an old power strip? I would first, if you haven't already, plug the speakers into a separate power socket and, preferably, a new power strip. It sounds to me like there is power bleeding back into the speakers from the power cable, so I would suspect the power strip first since every time I have encounter bleed back like that it is due to a faulty power strip, or improper grounding on the socket itself.

Another thing to do would be to use a separate receiver to plug the speakers into, and then use a 3.5mm line in from the PC to the receiver to better isolate the speakers.
 
Last edited:
jmotivator said:
Are you plugging them all in to the same power strip? If so, is it an old power strip? I would first, if you haven't already, plug the speakers into a separate power socket and, preferably, a new power strip. It sounds to me like there is power bleeding back into the speakers from the power cable, so I would suspect the power strip first since every time I have encounter bleed back like that it is due to a faulty power strip, or improper grounding on the socket itself.

Another thing to do would be to use a separate receiver to plug the speakers into, and then use a 3.5mm line in from the PC to the receiver to better isolate the speakers.
Click to expand...

Damn. Good point. Amazing that's one variable I didn't play with. It's a Surgemaster - mid-grade, but I have a better and newer strip I can try. I am using the 3.5mm line out. The headphone out does the same.
 
You might try a 12 volt USB plug attached to a 12 volt battery.
 
So I realized today that when I did the experiment involving using an AC cord with a clipped off ground pin I only turned the other speaker off. That's not sufficient, as that only breaks the line<->neutral circuit - it does not remove the speaker ground from the ground of the power strip. I did that, and everything cleaned up nicely. Did the same with the other speaker, and now the system is what I would expect. Dead quiet. No hum or anything. This is only a bandaid, but it's one I can live with for a bit. The speakers are so well built, you'd have to disassemble them to find a shock hazard.

As for the underlying problem, I think jmotivator probably is on it or close. I don't think my strips isolate circuit to circuit well enough. I can prove that by moving the speakers to a different strip, but that will create a minor loop, so I'm leaving it alone for now. I want to see what the source actually is and clean that up, if possible.

I need to focus on getting all of the packages and apps I have migrated and working correctly first.

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions!
 
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