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AMD has Ryzen? Eh, kinda

The new 1080ti is supposed to be better than the Titan for $700

Age-old marketing trick. Have a luxury model that is comically overpriced, captures the "must have best at any cost!" crowd, as well as the "must have it right now!" crowd. Then release an equivalent, or near-equivalent that is merely "overpriced." Creates a false sense of value. It's still a $700 graphics card. The existence of a $1200 card just makes it look reasonable, when it really isn't.

...I'm still probably buying one.
 
The last time AMD had the fastest chip was the Pentium 4 days.


The i5-2500k and i7-2600k were amazing in their day. They launched more than six years ago (january 2011) and are only just now starting to struggle with modern AAA gaming. AMD hadn't been able to compete with a 2011 processor until, well, this freaking week.


AMD hadn't launched a new GPU in years and only managed to sortof compete with a GTX 1060 this last round. (their "just buy two RX 480's and be better than a GTX1080" marketing was nonsense)

I'm skeptical that Vega will even match the GTX 1080. And with the 1080ti giving Titan performance for $700? Not an easy price/performance window to hit.

AMD is certainly closing the gap but they just don't have the resources of Team Blue and Team Green. But hey, as long as they stay competitive it's good for the consumers.

Amd competed beyond the p4 days, but I will admit it wa amd's peak against intel. My computer then was a p4 with 1.8 ghz, and my other computer has near 3 ghz celeron, his computer had a 1.8 ghz amd, and it ran circles around both. I scratched my head until I saw that the amd had a massive bus and cache, while the p4 had a high clock speed, but was running a bus and cache barely better than the p1 of the mid 90's. The competition continued until the icore, since the icore intel left them in the dust. During the dual core and core 2 duo days amd may not have been 1st place but were very viable copetitors.

Amd not competing with the i-core has already been brought up. It took until early last year for amd to admit their failts, and it takes longer for them to engineer corrections. Till early 2016 they rnd was focused on ading more cores and clock speed, wwhich was useless when a slower clock lower core count i-core could run circles around them. It was like putting a 10,000 gpm water pump in with 1/8 brass line, the pump was fastest ever, but the line bottle necked it so bad there was no increase in water flow.

Amd has been behind the curve on all fronts, even gpu's. However they have switched strategies in early 2016, so what they make in the next year or two will be a radical departure. Amd's big fault was to ignore what made them successful and instead do the same thing that made intel lag behind them. Amd is moving away from clock speed and core counts and towards bus and bridge speeds, better cache, etc. It only took amd a decade of getting beaten down to read the writing on the wall but they eventually got it.
 
Age-old marketing trick. Have a luxury model that is comically overpriced, captures the "must have best at any cost!" crowd, as well as the "must have it right now!" crowd. Then release an equivalent, or near-equivalent that is merely "overpriced." Creates a false sense of value. It's still a $700 graphics card. The existence of a $1200 card just makes it look reasonable, when it really isn't.

...I'm still probably buying one.

Is that like the old 486 sx and dx chips, the same chips but the sx had cache disabled, yet there and the dx had it enables. Both chips way back then cost the same to produce as they were identicle except enabling internal cache, yet the dx sold for way more just to enable a feature already manufactured in the cheaper chip but blocked.
 
Is that like the old 486 sx and dx chips, the same chips but the sx had cache disabled, yet there and the dx had it enables. Both chips way back then cost the same to produce as they were identicle except enabling internal cache, yet the dx sold for way more just to enable a feature already manufactured in the cheaper chip but blocked.

Kinda, yeah. Although microchips everywhere work this way.

For example, all three Ryzen 7 chips come off the same machine. They just test them out to see which ones manage to successfully validate at the higher clockspeeds. Many of the 6-core and 4-core versions released later will just be 8-core chips where one or more cores are just defective, or failed validation at the desired speed. So they just disable them and sell it as a lower-end chip.

(if past generations are anything to go by, some idiots will attempt to unlock these defective cores and then whine incessantly when it doesn't work)

In GPU production, often the lower range models are just cut down versions of the big one. Chop off a couple hundred processor units so you get more devices out of the same wafer. In the case of the 1080ti, Nvidia actually did something new and didn't cut it down. It's a full-on Titan. They just put on slightly less memory (11gb vs 12gb, but actually with memory that is clocked faster) and a better cooler. In comparison the 980ti was actually cut down a bit, and had half the memory of its Titan variant.

Oddly enough, it's also a larger price gap.
Titan X (Pascal): $1200, 1080ti: $700
Titan X (Maxwell): $1000, 980ti: $650

My guess this is a preemptive strike against AMD's "Vega" GPUs. "Hey, only $700 and you get full Titan power! Why buy this piece of junk from AMD?"

And for ****'s sake, Nvidia, why did you name both generations the "Titan X?"
 
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I will take an amd processor but nvidia with the video card no doubt about it.
I don't see vega overtaking it.
 
Age-old marketing trick. Have a luxury model that is comically overpriced, captures the "must have best at any cost!" crowd, as well as the "must have it right now!" crowd. Then release an equivalent, or near-equivalent that is merely "overpriced." Creates a false sense of value. It's still a $700 graphics card. The existence of a $1200 card just makes it look reasonable, when it really isn't.

...I'm still probably buying one.

Well the titan at $1200 was never thought of as a good deal, the 1080 at ~$650 was a bit over priced but for the performance you get out of the 1080ti at $700 thats a pretty decent price
 
Well the titan at $1200 was never thought of as a good deal, the 1080 at ~$650 was a bit over priced but for the performance you get out of the 1080ti at $700 thats a pretty decent price

Assuming the "35% faster than a GTX 1080" marketing claim holds up, anyway:

hitman-game-performance.jpg


I'm always skeptical of charts like this. It's just an indexed "game performance" metric which could mean anything. They didn't label it "frames per second."
 
Ahh ok.

well I think I found the MB I am going to get. It is down between the ASUS crosshair or the MSI am4 titanium.
the MSI seems to be leading but I can go with the ASUS as well. I have heard good things about it.

although I have also seen the firmware needs to be updated. which is why the MSI board is looking better.

I just read this morning that quite a few of the ASUS Crosshair boards are just bricking themselves. Some message about a bios update comes up, then it stalls out and never works again.
 
I just read this morning that quite a few of the ASUS Crosshair boards are just bricking themselves. Some message about a bios update comes up, then it stalls out and never works again.

Yep I had read some of the first tests and people were having issues with the asus bios.
Not sure why. The gigabyte aorsus isn't doesn't over lock that well.

Well not good a lot of asus boards are bricked it seems.
So that is out.

I first spaced out gigabyte I think I will just keep with them.
 
(if past generations are anything to go by, some idiots will attempt to unlock these defective cores and then whine incessantly when it doesn't work)
I'm running a Phenom 2 dual core with the other two cores unlocked to give me 4 cores. It runs nicely.
 
I'm running a Phenom 2 dual core with the other two cores unlocked to give me 4 cores. It runs nicely.

Sure, but that's a silicon lottery issue. You paid for a dual core processor. If core number 3 happened to be totally defective, would you have complained about it? If you want to guarantee 4 viable cores at the advertised frequency, you pay for the 4-core. If you roll the dice on a 2-core and it turns out all four work fine, bonus!

Of course, sometimes it is pure marketing. I know a lot of the early RX480 GPUs in the "4GB" model were actually 8GBs with literally a different sticker slapped over the top of the old one. (and the bios set to disable the extra VRAM) Why, is hard to tell. I think the issue is that they want to make as many units as possible for launch, so its faster to just run everything on one production line and built the same way. People who bought the early ones could flash them to work all 8GB of VRAM.

...and many poor bastards tried to do the same with later models and bricked their GPUs.

AMD tries some weird **** to compete, is the takeaway!
 
Sure, but that's a silicon lottery issue. You paid for a dual core processor. If core number 3 happened to be totally defective, would you have complained about it? If you want to guarantee 4 viable cores at the advertised frequency, you pay for the 4-core. If you roll the dice on a 2-core and it turns out all four work fine, bonus!
I knew it was a risk. I had read up on the chip and knew there was like a 75%ish chance that I could unlock the other cores. But it worked, and I've been very happy with my Phenom2.

I don't truly need to upgrade that $80 chip from several years ago. I have it OCed to 3.8ghz and it runs everything nicely to this day. But being a bit of a nerd, I sort of want a new Ryzen. I think I'll wait on the 4 core. As good of a deal as the 1700 is, that's still more than I want to spend for a toy, which is what my computer essentially is. And I'd need a new Mobo, too.

EDIT: Do you think the new 4 core AMDs will be considerably faster than an OCed Phenom2? I'm assuming it will be, but I'd like to hear what you guys think.
 
I knew it was a risk. I had read up on the chip and knew there was like a 75%ish chance that I could unlock the other cores. But it worked, and I've been very happy with my Phenom2.

I don't truly need to upgrade that $80 chip from several years ago. I have it OCed to 3.8ghz and it runs everything nicely to this day. But being a bit of a nerd, I sort of want a new Ryzen. I think I'll wait on the 4 core. As good of a deal as the 1700 is, that's still more than I want to spend for a toy, which is what my computer essentially is. And I'd need a new Mobo, too.

Same discussion I have when talking to people about buying an airplane. The first question is always "what's the mission?"

If it runs everything you want it to run at an acceptable level, then don't upgrade. If you're doing a lot of video encoding/editing type work, or want to play a video game and stream it at the same time, etc, then yeah, Ryzen is a good chip. Playing the latest AAA games at high framerates? Good chip, although you should look at Intel's 4-core line as a probable better value.

Mostly do home office/spreadsheets/netflix? Pssh. You can buy an entire machine for the price of an R7 + motherboard. Why bother?
 
You can buy an entire machine for the price of an R7 + motherboard. Why bother?

Yeah, that's probably true, and I've considered that. I can use that money for my next vacation to South America which I will enjoy far more than having a new CPU and Mobo where I may not even notice the improvement in performance unless I run a benchmark. :/
 
Yeah, that's probably true, and I've considered that. I can use that money for my next vacation to South America which I will enjoy far more than having a new CPU and Mobo where I may not even notice the improvement in performance unless I run a benchmark. :/

If it's simply home office/browsing/netflix type operations, the biggest single upgrade to your computer experience, by a huge margin, is a solid-state drive. (SSD) By far the best computer upgrade purchase you can make, if you don't already have one.
 
If it's simply home office/browsing/netflix type operations, the biggest single upgrade to your computer experience, by a huge margin, is a solid-state drive. (SSD) By far the best computer upgrade purchase you can make, if you don't already have one.

Well, that's been an issue for me. I bought an SSD and I just use it as a secondary drive. When I boot from my SSD, I get a weird issue. Every few seconds a command box will flash up on my screen. It will minimize whatever I'm doing, including games. I've tried google searches and no solution. Really odd.

So, I still boot from my HD and just run some of my games from my SSD. They certainly load faster and play better off my SSD.
 
Well, that's been an issue for me. I bought an SSD and I just use it as a secondary drive. When I boot from my SSD, I get a weird issue. Every few seconds a command box will flash up on my screen. It will minimize whatever I'm doing, including games. I've tried google searches and no solution. Really odd.

So, I still boot from my HD and just run some of my games from my SSD. They certainly load faster and play better off my SSD.

Huh.

Did you do a fresh install of windows on the SSD or did you copy data over?
 
I mirrored my HD.

I'd try a fresh Windows install and see if it continues. It would be nice to have the OS on the SSD.
 
I'd try a fresh Windows install and see if it continues. It would be nice to have the OS on the SSD.

Yeah, I know man. But that's an issue. I bought an OEM version of Win7 several years back and I have no idea where that **** is. :/ I still have my WinXP disk, but I don't want that old crap.
 
Same discussion I have when talking to people about buying an airplane. The first question is always "what's the mission?"

If it runs everything you want it to run at an acceptable level, then don't upgrade. If you're doing a lot of video encoding/editing type work, or want to play a video game and stream it at the same time, etc, then yeah, Ryzen is a good chip. Playing the latest AAA games at high framerates? Good chip, although you should look at Intel's 4-core line as a probable better value.

Mostly do home office/spreadsheets/netflix? Pssh. You can buy an entire machine for the price of an R7 + motherboard. Why bother?

Well most of the is done via GPU now though anyways.
 
Yep I had read some of the first tests and people were having issues with the asus bios.
Not sure why. The gigabyte aorsus isn't doesn't over lock that well.

Well not good a lot of asus boards are bricked it seems.
So that is out.

I first spaced out gigabyte I think I will just keep with them.

I still wanted to get a crosshair because it also supports am3 brackets so I dont have to wait the 2 weeks for corsair to send me a new mounting bracket but then I saw that places actually had the MSI titanium in stock and I can use the wraith spire cooler that comes with the 1700 until corsair send it. So I got the msi x370 titanium gaming everything should be here by next weekend and then I can go to work.
 
I still wanted to get a crosshair because it also supports am3 brackets so I dont have to wait the 2 weeks for corsair to send me a new mounting bracket but then I saw that places actually had the MSI titanium in stock and I can use the wraith spire cooler that comes with the 1700 until corsair send it. So I got the msi x370 titanium gaming everything should be here by next weekend and then I can go to work.

I was looking at that board. It looks pretty sweet.
I have an msi board now and it has been solid for 6 years.

I have to wait for my next project bonus.
which will be more towards Christmas.

By then I hope they have the rest of the bugs worked out.
 
I was looking at that board. It looks pretty sweet.
I have an msi board now and it has been solid for 6 years.

I have to wait for my next project bonus.
which will be more towards Christmas.

By then I hope they have the rest of the bugs worked out.

Well I finally got my ryzen in and I had to pair it with my 1080ti since I couldn't get the 1080 to work on it

It's running at 3.9ghz on air right now, waiting for my corsair bracket to come it for my liquid cooling

20170316_100918.jpg

20170316_100903.jpg
 
Well I finally got my ryzen in and I had to pair it with my 1080ti since I couldn't get the 1080 to work on it

It's running at 3.9ghz on air right now, waiting for my corsair bracket to come it for my liquid cooling

View attachment 67215280

View attachment 67215281

What the hell am I looking at in those pics? I've been building computers for 25 years and I can't see anything familiar. What is that circle thing for instance? The CPU cooler? And why are the memory slots lit up?
 
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