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Thread: Libya’s violent free-for-all

  1. #21
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    Re: Libya’s violent free-for-all

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Meh. Supposition unsupported by any facts in this post, that "Had Syria been OPEC and opposed to the US, it wouldn't have taken them long to oust Assad."

    In the mean time the US has become a net exporter of oil.

    U.S. Becomes Net Exporter of Oil, Fuels for First Time in Decades - WSJ
    Page Not Found...

    US becomes a net energy exporter in 2020, Energy Dept says
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    Jan 24, 2019 - The boom in U.S. oil and natural gas production will make the U.S. a net energy exporter in 2020 — a feat the country has not achieved in ...

    Something doesn't seem to add up in your logic.

    Okay, I'll prove it.



    15th February 2011 was the start of it all in Libya.

    Republicans upset with Obama's regime change remarks - CNN.com

    "When U.S. President Barack Obama said Monday it would be wrong to seek regime change in Libya by force, Republican lawmakers took issue -- saying removing Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi is and should be precisely the goal." March 29, 2011

    ""The reason why we wage wars is to achieve the results of a policy that we state," McCain said."

    "Overall, however, McCain said Obama made a "strong case" for the military effort in Libya and laid out the reasons why the president thought it was important to intervene."



    McCain pushes heavier U.S. involvement in Libya - CNN.com

    "McCain pushes heavier U.S. involvement in Libya" April 22, 2011

    "Libyan opposition leaders received a major morale boost Friday when a top U.S. senator made a surprise visit to the rebel stronghold of Benghazi and urged greater American involvement in the bloody campaign to oust strongman Moammar Gadhafi.

    The visit from Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, came a day after the United States said it was deploying predator drones to Libya."


    In Syria it all kicked off on the 15th March 2011.

    Oh this is massively frustrating. I'm struggling to find the things I found before. Even went back to an old political forum and the search function hardly works, and Google is throwing up so much rubbish it's ridiculous. Type in McCain and Syria and the only thing with McCain in it is to do with Libya.


    Anyway, McCain was essentially giving reasons they the US should not go into Syria at this time, in total contrast to what he said with Libya.

    Here's McCain two years later talking about arming rebels, no talk of bombing.

    John McCain makes surprise visit to rebel leaders in Syria | World news | The Guardian

    "
    This article is more than 6 years old John McCain makes surprise visit to rebel leaders in Syria"

  2. #22
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    Re: Libya’s violent free-for-all

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Some in the administration might be neo-con war hawks, but I don't think Trump is. Seems far more likely that the oil tanker attack was a Iranian, or Iranian supported terrorists. Rather doubtful that it would have been Saudi or Israel.



    LOLz. Believe a single word that comes out of Hillary's mouth? Naa. Lot percentage that it'd be the truth.

    There's a difference between the Saudi state and the Islamic sect with wealthy individuals, that fund other Islamic militant extremists that commit terrorist acts. Yes, there is a difference. The 9/11 terrorists is an example of the latter and not an example of the former.



    Do you even know what Wahhabism is? Here's a link. Read up on it before you make yourself look even more foolish. Osama Bin Laden, the money man behind the 9/11 attacks is an independently wealthy Wahhabist, for example.
    Do you know how things work?

    Sometimes the president doesn't know about things. This doesn't need to have been a US job. It could have been CIA without the knowledge of Trump. It could have been Saudi and it could have been Israeli. Either way Trump isn't going to be in on it.

    With the realization from the Saudis and Israelis that Trump is easy as pie to manipulate, they're clearly going to try such things at some point.

    But the reality is we can't know. It could have been the Iranians. It could have been anyone.

    Do I believe Hillary? Not really. Do I believe Trump? No. Israelis? No. Saudis? No. CIA? No.

    That's not the point here. The point is that a LOT OF PEOPLE believe the Saudis are complicit in terrorism. I mean, they brutally executed a Journalist working for the Washington Post. They got away with it. To the point where the US continued to sell arms to the Saudis. The Saudis have got a lot more confident since Trump became president.

    Trump went to Saudi Arabia in May 2017, in June Qatar got blockaded. Coincidence? No chance.

  3. #23
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    Re: Libya’s violent free-for-all

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    So exactly like Iran then. But hey, we all know liberals don't give a **** about that.

    Whether or not 'Gaddafi sponsored practically every terrorist group under the sun for decades', still seems a reasonable question to ask, the stability if the region before and after.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    Um....no, it's not a "reasonable question to ask" because we know full well that he did sponsor those groups.

    Conservatives having crushes on every dictator under the sun does not change that fact

  4. #24
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    Re: Libya’s violent free-for-all

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerace117 View Post
    Um....no, it's not a "reasonable question to ask" because we know full well that he did sponsor those groups.
    If this is the position then there's an explanation empowering Iran and their sponsorship of terrorists groups, quite different than the deposing of Qaddafi.

    Conservatives having crushes on every dictator under the sun does not change that fact
    Yeah, right. As if that's realistic in any sense.

    Whom gave the Iranian's dictators their sweetheart deal?
    Whom gave ISIS their sweetheart deal over Bergdahl?

    Please parrot DNC issued talking points to someone else. I'm not interested in them.
    Covington Catholic, BuzzFeed Cohen story,
    Beyond BuzzFeed: The 10 Worst, Most Embarrassing U.S. Media Failures on the Trump/Russia Story
    Don't believe the lying leftist 'news' (political propaganda) media! #JournalismIsDead

  5. #25
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    Re: Libya’s violent free-for-all

    Some years ago, poor Libya had the misfortune of suggesting that African nations move away from petrodollar to a gold-backed reserve currency, not dissimilar to a proposal made by one Saddam Hussein in the 1990s.

    TPTB in Washington were not so enthralled with the idea.

    Syria would likewise be nothing more than a smoking crater in the Earth right now, if Russia hadn't stepped in to protect its national interests.

  6. #26
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    Re: Libya’s violent free-for-all

    Quote Originally Posted by Frigidweirdo View Post
    Okay, I'll prove it.



    15th February 2011 was the start of it all in Libya.

    Republicans upset with Obama's regime change remarks - CNN.com

    "When U.S. President Barack Obama said Monday it would be wrong to seek regime change in Libya by force, Republican lawmakers took issue -- saying removing Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi is and should be precisely the goal." March 29, 2011

    ""The reason why we wage wars is to achieve the results of a policy that we state," McCain said."

    "Overall, however, McCain said Obama made a "strong case" for the military effort in Libya and laid out the reasons why the president thought it was important to intervene."



    McCain pushes heavier U.S. involvement in Libya - CNN.com

    "McCain pushes heavier U.S. involvement in Libya" April 22, 2011

    "Libyan opposition leaders received a major morale boost Friday when a top U.S. senator made a surprise visit to the rebel stronghold of Benghazi and urged greater American involvement in the bloody campaign to oust strongman Moammar Gadhafi.

    The visit from Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, came a day after the United States said it was deploying predator drones to Libya."


    In Syria it all kicked off on the 15th March 2011.

    Oh this is massively frustrating. I'm struggling to find the things I found before. Even went back to an old political forum and the search function hardly works, and Google is throwing up so much rubbish it's ridiculous. Type in McCain and Syria and the only thing with McCain in it is to do with Libya.


    Anyway, McCain was essentially giving reasons they the US should not go into Syria at this time, in total contrast to what he said with Libya.

    Here's McCain two years later talking about arming rebels, no talk of bombing.

    John McCain makes surprise visit to rebel leaders in Syria | World news | The Guardian

    "
    This article is more than 6 years old John McCain makes surprise visit to rebel leaders in Syria"
    Hmm. I'm not seeing any proof of an oil motivation for toppling Qaddafi. What I'm seeing are ambiguous and less than clear reasoning to do so from the then administration. I'm also seeing legitimate concerns expressed from Republicans.
    Covington Catholic, BuzzFeed Cohen story,
    Beyond BuzzFeed: The 10 Worst, Most Embarrassing U.S. Media Failures on the Trump/Russia Story
    Don't believe the lying leftist 'news' (political propaganda) media! #JournalismIsDead

  7. #27
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    Re: Libya’s violent free-for-all

    Quote Originally Posted by Frigidweirdo View Post
    Do you know how things work?

    Sometimes the president doesn't know about things. This doesn't need to have been a US job. It could have been CIA without the knowledge of Trump. It could have been Saudi and it could have been Israeli. Either way Trump isn't going to be in on it.

    With the realization from the Saudis and Israelis that Trump is easy as pie to manipulate, they're clearly going to try such things at some point.

    But the reality is we can't know. It could have been the Iranians. It could have been anyone.
    Who has a record of attacking oil tankers in the Persian Gulf? Wouldn't that be the Iranians?

    Not sure that I'd make the claim 'realization from the Saudis and Israelis that Trump is easy as pie to manipulate'. Not only very difficult to demonstrate, each citation of proof of manipulation could easily have an equally valid non-manipulation foundation.

    Do I believe Hillary? Not really. Do I believe Trump? No. Israelis? No. Saudis? No. CIA? No.
    Absolute trust? No, Oh hell no. The Israeli and Saudi nations have their own interests, just as the US has its own interests. Since when do you trust a spying agency? Especially with the cloud of a questionable factual predicate hanging over the justification of the Russian Collusion investigation.

    That's not the point here. The point is that a LOT OF PEOPLE believe the Saudis are complicit in terrorism. I mean, they brutally executed a Journalist working for the Washington Post. They got away with it. To the point where the US continued to sell arms to the Saudis. The Saudis have got a lot more confident since Trump became president.
    A lot of people believe a lot of things, and they may be wrong. If there's evidence that the Saudi nation is supporting terrorists, I'll be open to that possibility. So far, I'm not aware that this has been publicized as much Iranian support of terrorists.

    Yes, the Saudi's murdered Khashoggi. In that society it is unacceptable to criticize the monarchy as Khashoggi had made a habit of. Different system than the US, and it is inappropriate and foolish to apply US values to another culture. It simply doesn't work that way. US values dictate US reactions, but not Saudi actions. Would have to measure those action by Saudi values.

    Trump went to Saudi Arabia in May 2017, in June Qatar got blockaded. Coincidence? No chance.
    Covington Catholic, BuzzFeed Cohen story,
    Beyond BuzzFeed: The 10 Worst, Most Embarrassing U.S. Media Failures on the Trump/Russia Story
    Don't believe the lying leftist 'news' (political propaganda) media! #JournalismIsDead

  8. #28
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    Re: Libya’s violent free-for-all

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Whom gave ISIS their sweetheart deal over Bergdahl?
    Taliban

  9. #29
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    Re: Libya’s violent free-for-all

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadvirus View Post
    Taliban
    You are correct. It was the Taliban who held Bergdahl. Thanks for me informing me. No issues. No worries.
    Covington Catholic, BuzzFeed Cohen story,
    Beyond BuzzFeed: The 10 Worst, Most Embarrassing U.S. Media Failures on the Trump/Russia Story
    Don't believe the lying leftist 'news' (political propaganda) media! #JournalismIsDead

  10. #30
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    Re: Libya’s violent free-for-all

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Hmm. I'm not seeing any proof of an oil motivation for toppling Qaddafi. What I'm seeing are ambiguous and less than clear reasoning to do so from the then administration. I'm also seeing legitimate concerns expressed from Republicans.
    Libya wasn't about oil.it was Hillary following Albrights policy of R2P

    Libya and the Responsibility to Protect

    the really stupid part of this -and there was lots of stupid -was the fact the info that Qaddafi was going to bomb Bengazi protestors" was 100% unfounded -based on a few cell phone rants
    Last edited by annata; 07-05-19 at 02:49 PM.

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