Congo Agonistes

Jack Hays said:

It's happening again. One of the world's most tortured countries is again slipping into the abyss. What is to be done?

Heading Back to Hell: Congo in Peril
The Economist

. . . Mobutu and his underlings looted the Congolese state until it could barely stand. When a shock struck, it collapsed. The shock was the Rwandan genocide of 1994. The perpetrators of that abomination, defeated at home, fled into Congo. Rwanda invaded Congo to eliminate them. Meeting almost no resistance, since no one wanted to die for Mobutu, the highly disciplined Rwandans overthrew him and replaced him with their local ally, Laurent Kabila. Then Kabila switched sides and armed the génocidaires, so Rwanda tried to overthrow him, too. Angola and Zimbabwe saved him. The war degenerated into a bloody tussle for plunder. Eight foreign countries became embroiled, along with dozens of local militias. Congo’s mineral wealth fuelled the mayhem, as men with guns grabbed diamond, gold and coltan mines. Warlords stoked ethnic divisions, urging young men to take up arms to defend their tribe—and rob the one next door—because the state could not protect anyone. Rape spread like a forest fire.

The war ended eventually when all sides were exhausted, and under pressure from donors on the governments involved. The world’s biggest force of UN blue helmets arrived. Kabila’s son, Joseph, has been president since his father was shot in 2001. He has failed to build a state that does not prey on its people. Bigwigs still embezzle; soldiers mug peasants; public services barely exist. The law counts for little. When a judge recently refused to rule against an opposition leader, thugs broke into his home and raped his wife and daughter.

Mr Kabila was elected for a final five-year term in 2011. His mandate ran out in 2016, but he clings to the throne. He is pathetically unpopular—no more than 10% of Congolese back him. His authority is fading. He can still scatter protests in the capital, Kinshasa, with tear gas and live bullets. And few Congolese can afford to take a whole day off to protest, in any case. But in the rest of this vast country, he is losing control (see Briefing). Ten of 26 provinces are suffering armed conflict. Dozens of militias are once again spilling blood. Some 2m Congolese fled their homes last year, bringing the total still displaced to around 4.3m. The state is tottering, the president is illegitimate, ethnic militias are proliferating and one of the world’s richest supplies of minerals is available to loot. There is ample evidence that countries which have suffered a recent civil war are more likely to suffer another. In Congo the slide back to carnage has already begun. . . .

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Captain Adverse said:

Nothing, at least as far as the U.S.A. is concerned. IMO it is up the citizens of any struggling nation to handle their own affairs.

The U.S. needs to stop thinking like it is the World's policeman.

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Captain Adverse said:

Nothing, at least as far as the U.S.A. is concerned. IMO it is up the citizens of any struggling nation to handle their own affairs.

People cry "do something!" We accede to emotional demands...and end up with Somolia, the Middle East, etc., etc.. Trillions in wasted dollars, thousands of American's dead or wounded, divisive home politics, and the world calling us interfering monsters.

The U.S. needs to stop thinking like it is the World's policeman.

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Jack Hays said:

How about supporting the diplomatic efforts of neighboring states?

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Four Points on Foreign Affairs:

1. I do not believe The United States is morally responsible for taking "some action" outside of our own national borders. We don't have the right nor duty to act as the "World's Policeman." I support humanitarian aid; and use of political influence to keep other nations out of foreign internal struggles.

2. Each nation is responsible for its own internal politics, no one should interfere. The people of each society must work things out on their own for there to be any chance of long-term stability. External interference typically serves to undermine the legitimacy of whichever factions wins, creating an unstable political environment ripe for further trouble.

3. It does not matter the form of political ideology that ends up in control without outside influence or interference. If it has a negative effect on the society it governs, history has shown that as long as examples of other more positive options exist outside that State, it will either collapse on it's own or it's people will eventually overthrow and replace it.

4. I firmly believe that nations should seek strong alliances with other nations sharing similar goals and ideals, and be willing to honor such alliances in defense against aggressors.

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Jack Hays said:

It's happening again. One of the world's most tortured countries is again slipping into the abyss. What is to be done?

Heading Back to Hell: Congo in Peril
The Economist

. . . Mobutu and his underlings looted the Congolese state until it could barely stand. When a shock struck, it collapsed. The shock was the Rwandan genocide of 1994. The perpetrators of that abomination, defeated at home, fled into Congo. Rwanda invaded Congo to eliminate them. Meeting almost no resistance, since no one wanted to die for Mobutu, the highly disciplined Rwandans overthrew him and replaced him with their local ally, Laurent Kabila. Then Kabila switched sides and armed the génocidaires, so Rwanda tried to overthrow him, too. Angola and Zimbabwe saved him. The war degenerated into a bloody tussle for plunder. Eight foreign countries became embroiled, along with dozens of local militias. Congo’s mineral wealth fuelled the mayhem, as men with guns grabbed diamond, gold and coltan mines. Warlords stoked ethnic divisions, urging young men to take up arms to defend their tribe—and rob the one next door—because the state could not protect anyone. Rape spread like a forest fire.

The war ended eventually when all sides were exhausted, and under pressure from donors on the governments involved. The world’s biggest force of UN blue helmets arrived. Kabila’s son, Joseph, has been president since his father was shot in 2001. He has failed to build a state that does not prey on its people. Bigwigs still embezzle; soldiers mug peasants; public services barely exist. The law counts for little. When a judge recently refused to rule against an opposition leader, thugs broke into his home and raped his wife and daughter.

Mr Kabila was elected for a final five-year term in 2011. His mandate ran out in 2016, but he clings to the throne. He is pathetically unpopular—no more than 10% of Congolese back him. His authority is fading. He can still scatter protests in the capital, Kinshasa, with tear gas and live bullets. And few Congolese can afford to take a whole day off to protest, in any case. But in the rest of this vast country, he is losing control (see Briefing). Ten of 26 provinces are suffering armed conflict. Dozens of militias are once again spilling blood. Some 2m Congolese fled their homes last year, bringing the total still displaced to around 4.3m. The state is tottering, the president is illegitimate, ethnic militias are proliferating and one of the world’s richest supplies of minerals is available to loot. There is ample evidence that countries which have suffered a recent civil war are more likely to suffer another. In Congo the slide back to carnage has already begun. . . .

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Jack Hays said:

It's happening again. One of the world's most tortured countries is again slipping into the abyss. What is to be done?

Heading Back to Hell: Congo in Peril
The Economist

. . . Mobutu and his underlings looted the Congolese state until it could barely stand. When a shock struck, it collapsed. The shock was the Rwandan genocide of 1994. The perpetrators of that abomination, defeated at home, fled into Congo. Rwanda invaded Congo to eliminate them. Meeting almost no resistance, since no one wanted to die for Mobutu, the highly disciplined Rwandans overthrew him and replaced him with their local ally, Laurent Kabila. Then Kabila switched sides and armed the génocidaires, so Rwanda tried to overthrow him, too. Angola and Zimbabwe saved him. The war degenerated into a bloody tussle for plunder. Eight foreign countries became embroiled, along with dozens of local militias. Congo’s mineral wealth fuelled the mayhem, as men with guns grabbed diamond, gold and coltan mines. Warlords stoked ethnic divisions, urging young men to take up arms to defend their tribe—and rob the one next door—because the state could not protect anyone. Rape spread like a forest fire.

The war ended eventually when all sides were exhausted, and under pressure from donors on the governments involved. The world’s biggest force of UN blue helmets arrived. Kabila’s son, Joseph, has been president since his father was shot in 2001. He has failed to build a state that does not prey on its people. Bigwigs still embezzle; soldiers mug peasants; public services barely exist. The law counts for little. When a judge recently refused to rule against an opposition leader, thugs broke into his home and raped his wife and daughter.

Mr Kabila was elected for a final five-year term in 2011. His mandate ran out in 2016, but he clings to the throne. He is pathetically unpopular—no more than 10% of Congolese back him. His authority is fading. He can still scatter protests in the capital, Kinshasa, with tear gas and live bullets. And few Congolese can afford to take a whole day off to protest, in any case. But in the rest of this vast country, he is losing control (see Briefing). Ten of 26 provinces are suffering armed conflict. Dozens of militias are once again spilling blood. Some 2m Congolese fled their homes last year, bringing the total still displaced to around 4.3m. The state is tottering, the president is illegitimate, ethnic militias are proliferating and one of the world’s richest supplies of minerals is available to loot. There is ample evidence that countries which have suffered a recent civil war are more likely to suffer another. In Congo the slide back to carnage has already begun. . . .

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polgara said:

Greetings, Jack. :2wave:

"All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players, they have their exits and their entrances......" Shakespeare

Since we have learned from archeologists and other scientists that humanoid civilization began in Africa, we still haven't learned the lessons about living peacefully with each other in over a million years of evolution! We still have wars and unbelievable cruelty that are used by those who would subjugate all others in their quest for wealth and power, and I feel much sadness for the women, children, and helpless elderly living in the Congo today under harsh and nearly unbearable conditions! :sinking:

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Captain Adverse said:

Depends on what you mean by "support?"

Money? Training only? Troops stationed there "just in case?" Trying to bribe one faction or another? Arming one faction or another? Air strikes?

Haven't we be doing all that over and over already...usually to no avail?

I say, let the local population sort it out.

Here's a quote from my (one and only) Forum Blog:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/blogs/captain-adverse/1391-time-re-introduce-myself.html

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Jack Hays said:

It is possible to be helpful with little cost or risk.

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Captain Adverse said:

Perhaps, there are some small ways we can "influence" the situation, as I indicated in the last sentence of item 1 of my blog quote.

The problem is that we seem to trod heavily, and small efforts often turn into major commitments and commensurate harms...in for a penny in for a pound attitudes seem to abound in our foreign diplomacy.

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Jack Hays said:

Last time several million people died. I for one would like to try to avoid a repeat.

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Captain Adverse said:

Then by all means feel free to commit yourself and your personal resources to whatever efforts you feel appropriate.

Meanwhile, I stand by my position that the USA is not, and should not be considered, the World's Policeman.

Mediation efforts? If accepted, then fine. Other than that, let the people involved sort it out by themselves. :shrug:

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slick said:

Let the people involved sort it out by themselves?

https://www.dailywire.com/news/27688/shocking-south-african-parliament-votes-seize-land-hank-berrien

On Tuesday in South Africa, a shocking vote in the National Assembly ruled that white South African farmers will be removed from their land.
The vote, prompted by a motion brought by radical Marxist opposition leader Julius Malema, was not even close; 241 legislators voted for it
with only 83 voting against it. Malema told his supporters in 2016 he was “not calling for the slaughter of white people — at least for now.”

These are true refugees, and should be allowed to front of the queue. These people will assimilate into the farming society and never be a burden to taxpayers…

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