• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Zimbabwe Army Possibly Staging Coup

Jetboogieman

Jetboogieman

Somewhere in Babylon
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
35,170
Reaction score
44,121
Location
Somewhere in Babylon...
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
It's too early at this time to understand what is happening, but essentially the Vice President who was once seen as Mugabes heir, was dismissed Earlier in the week, leading the Army Chief to issue an unprecedented statement that they would not tolerate the purging of Government officials who had participated in the armed struggle against White Minority rule.

It is believed that Robert Mugabes own wife, Grace Mugabe is now the heir and poised to take over the country upon his death.

Apparently the Zimbabwe military has deployed armored vehicles around major roads in the Capital Harare and they've taken control over the national TV station... **** is going down.

Zimbabwe crisis: Army says it is 'targeting criminals', not Mugabe - BBC News

Zimbabwe's military has read out a statement after taking over the national broadcaster, ZBC, saying it has taken action to "target criminals".

However, it said this was not "a military takeover of government" and President Robert Mugabe was safe.

Heavy gunfire and artillery were heard in northern suburbs of the capital, Harare, early on Wednesday.

Zimbabwe's envoy to South Africa, Isaac Moyo, earlier dismissed talk of a coup, saying the government was "intact".

The statement read out by the military came hours after soldiers overran the headquarters of ZBC. An officer in uniform said: "We wish to assure the nation that his excellency the president... and his family are safe and sound and their security is guaranteed."
Click to expand...
 
Jetboogieman said:
It's too early at this time to understand what is happening, but essentially the Vice President who was once seen as Mugabes heir, was dismissed Earlier in the week, leading the Army Chief to issue an unprecedented statement that they would not tolerate the purging of Government officials who had participated in the armed struggle against White Minority rule.

It is believed that Robert Mugabes own wife, Grace Mugabe is now the heir and poised to take over the country upon his death.

Apparently the Zimbabwe military has deployed armored vehicles around major roads in the Capital Harare and they've taken control over the national TV station... **** is going down.

Zimbabwe crisis: Army says it is 'targeting criminals', not Mugabe - BBC News
Click to expand...

is there a country more corrupt in its government than that crap-hole?
 
TurtleDude said:
is there a country more corrupt in its government than that crap-hole?
Click to expand...

Well it'd definitely be up there, the fact it has any semblence of stability is a minor miracle...

But I don't see how this could be anything other than a coup, I mean the army is deploying to take control of the capital and there's been small arms and ****ing artillery fire... If they're not staging a coup then who in gods name are they attacking?
 
Apparently the army sent a guy on TV to assure the people it had totes not like taken over or anything, and anyone who says otherwise (looking at you, BECKY who sits next to Robert Mugabe in homeroom) is a liar liar pants on fire.

Translation: the army has TOTALLY staged a coup.
 
Good. Mugabe is a racist dictator and Im glad they finally got rid of him. Now let's hope the people have a better say in their government instead of him being replaced by another tyrant.
 
$50 says that **** will hit the fan in Zimbabwe by 2020
 
PoS said:
Good. Mugabe is a racist dictator and Im glad they finally got rid of him. Now let's hope the people have a better say in their government instead of him being replaced by another tyrant.
Click to expand...

I would caution anyone in being optimistic about what has just occurred.

Mugabe is a really, really bad guy, hell im not ashamed to say that multiple times on this site I've said I hope someone shoots the bastard.

But, when you look at the chain of events, you see this could be an extremely serious squabble between ZANU PF (ruling party) that has boiled over.

The Vice President and heir apparent is dismissed so that Mugabes wife could potentially take over from a guy who could die any day now and suddenly the army acts only days later... Yeah that's no coincidence and the army chief stated as much.
 
Jetboogieman said:
It's too early at this time to understand what is happening, but essentially the Vice President who was once seen as Mugabes heir, was dismissed Earlier in the week, leading the Army Chief to issue an unprecedented statement that they would not tolerate the purging of Government officials who had participated in the armed struggle against White Minority rule.

It is believed that Robert Mugabes own wife, Grace Mugabe is now the heir and poised to take over the country upon his death.
Click to expand...
Actually, the NYT writeup seems to present a pretty good idea of what is probably happening.

Grace Mugabe tried to consolidate her power too aggressively and too quickly. She had a small group allied with her, and they tried to take down Mnangagwa, a high-ranking ZANU-PF leader. He basically fought back by engineering a bloodless coup. Reports now say she's fled to Namibia.

In other words, it's basically just going to be more of the same -- an inept and corrupt liberation-era leader, who is making a nod to the opposition in order to temporarily bolster his credibility. He's a brutal man who was likely involved in ethnic massacres in the 90s. In theory he's more moderate in international relations, in practice I have my doubts that much will change, let alone improve in any way.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/15/...column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
 
Masterhawk said:
$50 says that **** will hit the fan in Zimbabwe by 2020
Click to expand...
$50 Zimbabwean Dollars is worth about 13 cents in USD. You might want to up the stakes a little bit. :mrgreen:
 
Army Gen. Constantino Chiwenga made the move as a struggle over who will succeed the country’s increasingly frail 93-year-old leader came to a head. Mugabe has ruled since he led the country to independence from white-minority rule in 1980.

Mugabe is one of the oldest and longest-ruling leaders to come out of Africa’s struggle against colonialism and the emergence of new nations across the continent. His rule, however, has also become increasingly erratic, and he is blamed by many for devastating the once-prosperous former British colony.

“We wish to make it abundantly clear that this is not a military takeover,” said the statement read by Maj. Gen. Sibusiso Moyo. “We are only targeting criminals around him who are committing crimes that are causing social and economic suffering in the country.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...689a9f2d84e_story.html?utm_term=.cbc6744428c2
Click to expand...

Mugabe would be replaced with Army Gen. Constantino Chiwenga who seems to have a better idea about the country's future. Mugabe was informally appointed by the British to rule the former British colony after winning a civil war but he is no longer fit to govern.
 
ThirdTerm said:
Mugabe would be replaced with Army Gen. Constantino Chiwenga who seems to have a better idea about the country's future. Mugabe was informally appointed by the British to rule the former British colony after winning a civil war but he is no longer fit to govern.
Click to expand...

Mugabe was not informally appointed by anyone. He won an election based on the Lancaster House peace process that ended the Rhodesian war.
 
Mugabe's under house arrest, sooooooooooo i think we can safely say there's a coup going on.

That POS has destroyed his country. He deserves far worse.
 
ThirdTerm said:
Mugabe would be replaced with Army Gen. Constantino Chiwenga who seems to have a better idea about the country's future.
Click to expand...

As bad as Mugabe is, that's pure speculation.

And the army won't be taking over in any direct fashion because they will fear being sanctioned by the African Union.

No, the most likely scenario is Mugabe will be kept as a figurehead on a tight leash and Emmerson Mnangagwa and his faction within Zanu PF will actually run the country with the Armys blessing.
 
Jetboogieman said:
As bad as Mugabe is, that's pure speculation.

And the army won't be taking over in any direct fashion because they will fear being sanctioned by the African Union.

No, the most likely scenario is Mugabe will be kept as a figurehead on a tight leash and Emmerson Mnangagwa and his faction within Zanu PF will actually run the country with the Armys blessing.
Click to expand...

Quite plausible. My only quibble would be that no one fears the AU.
 
Jack Hays said:
Quite plausible. My only quibble would be that no one fears the AU.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be so sure, Africa has begun to sort out it's own problems now in the case of Zimbabwe... South Africa holds all the cards, but Africa wants to put the days of Military Coups behind it and it's almost certain of the Military were to set up a kind of Junta... Would most certainly lead to sanctions which would destroy the little gains that Zimbabwe has made since the mad inflationary days of the 2000's that almost completely destroyed the country.

So all in all, yeah I think my analysis is probably the most plausible scenario.

The military didn't do any of this out of the goodness of their hearts, they never do.
 
Jetboogieman said:
I wouldn't be so sure, Africa has begun to sort out it's own problems now in the case of Zimbabwe... South Africa holds all the cards, but Africa wants to put the days of Military Coups behind it and it's almost certain of the Military were to set up a kind of Junta... Would most certainly lead to sanctions which would destroy the little gains that Zimbabwe has made since the mad inflationary days of the 2000's that almost completely destroyed the country.

So all in all, yeah I think my analysis is probably the most plausible scenario.

The military didn't do any of this out of the goodness of their hearts, they never do.
Click to expand...

We shall see.
 
Jack Hays said:
Robert Mugabe oversaw the destruction of a once-prosperous country. Good riddance. There is no guarantee the result of this action will be good, but at least there is now hope.

What We Know About the Coup in Zimbabwe
Tara John & Joseph Hincks, Time
Click to expand...

He kicked the white farmers off their land, and put people in that didn’t have the farming skills necessary causing farming to collapse and create a food shortage. At least the dumb ass could have planned ahead and enlisted some farmers first.
 
From what I am reading there is at least some hope that the opposition can form an actual democratic government but we shall see what happens I am betting on military rule or just another dictator.

One thing that really confuses me is that all the coverage is saying Mugabe has been Zimbabwe's only leader since independence, that is false. Ian Smith declared UDI in 1965, making him the first independent leader of what is now Zimbabwe, he was the last democratically elected one though.
 
Jetboogieman said:
~ Emmerson Mnangagwa and his faction within Zanu PF will actually run the country with the Armys blessing.
Click to expand...

And Emerson Mnangawa otherwise known as "the crocodile" was the guy who led the North Korean trained killers who went into Ndebeleland to slaughter innocents.
One thing that surprised me was the General who spoke on TV was Sibusiso Moyo - a Ndebele name. Maybe there has been a rapprochement of sorts between the two historical enemies but I don't think any good will come from Mnangawa being in power.

The other side of all this is what China says or wants. General Chiwenga went to Peking / Beijing to seek approval / support before launching the coup. China will have a big say in what happens next and how.
 
President Mugabe defies expectations, declines to resign
In a meandering speech, Zimbabwe’s embattled president made it clear that he has no plans to leave power and suggested he could make reforms to satisfy his critics. In the past week, Robert Mugabe has faced a military takeover and the largest protests in the country’s history amid overwhelming opposition to his rule that was underscored Sunday when his own party, ZANU-PF, dismissed him as its leader and pressured him to step down or face impeachment.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom