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Black Power and the 1619 Project

ChezC3

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Radically recasting America's formative years would be damaging enough, but The New York Times 1619 Project is applying that same radical intellectual perspective on American history to contemporary social issues and problems.

That intellectual perspective has its own history. It developed in earnest during the tumult and chaos of the Black Power radicalism of the late 1960s. That catastrophically wrong turn the civil rights movement took spawned the warped worldview that would eventually dominate the study of race in the contemporary world of higher education, before spreading out into American political culture.

Until the middle 1960s, a very different set of perspectives dominated the civil rights movement. Martin Luther King, Jr., Roy Wilkins, and James Farmer vigorously opposed the racial status quo of the times, but they analyzed its nature largely within the parameters of traditional American cultural frameworks. Constitutional Republicanism and Protestant Christianity were central cultural systems for these critics. In short, these civil rights activists believed American culture and formative principles were sound and simply needed to be fully implemented to correct existing problems regarding race relations.

By the late 60's, newer, younger, extreme voices had arisen in the world of black civil rights. The now largely forgotten book Black Power (1967) distilled this new radical perspective. Cowritten by a young radical political scientist, Charles Hamilton, and one of the most controversial figures in the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC), Stokely Carmichael, the book's title quickly became the term representing the entirety of the radical racial identitarian movement that took off in the 60s and 70s.

Hamilton and Carmichael argued that the situation for blacks as a whole had markedly deteriorated, and that prospects going forward would be dismal unless blacks as a group took up a revolutionary perspective.

Black Power and the 1619 Project | Chronicles

While left unstated, the article clearly points to the Marxist influence of Carmichael and Hamilton. It also calls "BS" on the misnomer that is "institutional racism" as well as making good points on several other misconceptions.

Address the article not me. (which means you actually must read the article to contribute.)
 
Black Power and the 1619 Project | Chronicles

While left unstated, the article clearly points to the Marxist influence of Carmichael and Hamilton. It also calls "BS" on the misnomer that is "institutional racism" as well as making good points on several other misconceptions.

Address the article not me. (which means you actually must read the article to contribute.)

It's not particularly radical to claim that racism and slavery have always been pretty integral aspects of this nations history. It's not a coincidence that US citizenship was once restricted only to whites. From the get go, the beneficiaries of the American revolution were the privileged few, not the majority. Of course, the category of those with rights has expanded over time, but that does not mean that the negative impacts caused by this history have gone away simply because the laws have changed. One cannot simply undo hundreds of years of oppression with the stroke of a pen. Given the continued deprivations faced by the black community, it is only natural that we would see a recurrence of black power ideology.
 
It's not particularly radical to claim that racism and slavery have always been pretty integral aspects of this nations history. It's not a coincidence that US citizenship was once restricted only to whites. From the get go, the beneficiaries of the American revolution were the privileged few, not the majority. Of course, the category of those with rights has expanded over time, but that does not mean that the negative impacts caused by this history have gone away simply because the laws have changed. One cannot simply undo hundreds of years of oppression with the stroke of a pen. Given the continued deprivations faced by the black community, it is only natural that we would see a recurrence of black power ideology.

What "deprivations" are you referring to specifically? What is it a white can have that a black can't? Again be specific.
 
What "deprivations" are you referring to specifically? What is it a white can have that a black can't? Again be specific.

Wealth. With home ownership playing such an important role in a family generating wealth, and homes in white communties being worth more than homes in Black communities (we like to ignore that such commumities still exist, and why), opportunities for whites to accumulate wealth exist where they don't for Blacks.
 
Wealth. With home ownership playing such an important role in a family generating wealth, and homes in white communties being worth more than homes in Black communities (we like to ignore that such commumities still exist, and why), opportunities for whites to accumulate wealth exist where they don't for Blacks.

You aren't serious are you? Do you know who Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams and Larry Elder are? How about Star Parker? Who do you think lives in a bigger house? Me or Al Sharpton? The family living right next door to me lives in a house almost exactly like mine. Oh yeah and the 2 black families up the street from us on the other side. Either I'm poor or they are macinations of my imagination according to you.
 
It would have helped if the author had cited specific text in Black Power and the 1619 Project, rather than his own summary, as he read them, in his critique of them. Otherwise its difficult to taje him seriously.

He is apparently unaware that MLK was basically a Democratic socialist and that when he was assassinated:

According to an early 1968 Harris Poll, the man whose half-century of martyrdom we celebrate this week died with a public disapproval rating of nearly 75 percent, a figure shocking in its own day and still striking even in today’s highly polarized political climate.

Even Though He Is Revered Today, MLK Was Widely Disliked by the American Public When He Was Killed
|
History

| Smithsonian Magazine


The author refers to Stokely Carmichael quite a bit, but left out what Carmucael said about King, which is worth noting here. From the same article:

Former Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee Chairman Stokely Carmichael observed that, in this case, King was taking on not a hapless, wholly unsympathetic villain like Birmingham’s Sheriff Eugene “Bull” Connor, but rather “the entire policy of the United States government.” The consequences were swift and severe: an outraged President Lyndon Johnson cut off all contact with King. And a great number of black Americans—including many old allies and colleagues from the civil rights years—warned that his stance could have devastating consequences for their cause.

...King's slaying meant the death of “all reasonable hope,” Carmichael warned, because he was “the only man of our race ... of the older generation who the militants and the revolutionaries and the masses of black people would still listen to” even if they no longer agreed with what he had to say. There would be no more “intellectual discussions.” Black Americans would now retaliate for the murder of one of their leaders by seeking their justice not in the courtrooms but in the streets.
 
What "deprivations" are you referring to specifically? What is it a white can have that a black can't? Again be specific.

It's not a matter of what black people can't have, in theory. We are all entitled to equal treatment under the law, in theory. We are all entitled to equal opportunity, in theory. But in practice it does not and has never worked that way. Black people continue to face prejudice in many aspects of their lives, from treatment by the police, difficulties getting jobs or loans, and housing. Add to this the fact that the areas in which many black people live are very economically deprived, and it's not a recipe for success, although there have been those who have been able to rise above their circumstances.
 
It's not a matter of what black people can't have, in theory. We are all entitled to equal treatment under the law, in theory. We are all entitled to equal opportunity, in theory. But in practice it does not and has never worked that way. Black people continue to face prejudice in many aspects of their lives, from treatment by the police, difficulties getting jobs or loans, and housing. Add to this the fact that the areas in which many black people live are very economically deprived, and it's not a recipe for success, although there have been those who have been able to rise above their circumstances.

So then how do you explain "... those who have been able to rise above their circumstances."?
 
It's not a matter of what black people can't have, in theory. We are all entitled to equal treatment under the law, in theory. We are all entitled to equal opportunity, in theory. But in practice it does not and has never worked that way. Black people continue to face prejudice in many aspects of their lives, from treatment by the police, difficulties getting jobs or loans, and housing. Add to this the fact that the areas in which many black people live are very economically deprived, and it's not a recipe for success, although there have been those who have been able to rise above their circumstances.

Do you know who Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams and Larry Elder are?
 
So then how do you explain "... those who have been able to rise above their circumstances."?

Some people are smart enough, strong enough, talented enough, determined enough, or just got lucky enough, to be able to make the most of a bad situation, to succeed despite the obstacles. That doesn't change the fact that the overall economic and social situation of most urban black communities is clearly not conducive to their financial success or health by any measurable standard or metric.
 
Some people are smart enough, strong enough, talented enough, determined enough, or just got lucky enough, to be able to make the most of a bad situation, to succeed despite the obstacles. That doesn't change the fact that the overall economic and social situation of most urban black communities is clearly not conducive to their financial success or health by any measurable standard or metric.

Isn't that true of any group of people? That's not unique to blacks. I am not saying there aren't obstacles but you honestly believe the plight of black people is entirely the result of racism?
 
Black economists and libertarians.

Right all richer and more educated than me and 2 of them came up in a time when, from all objective measures, Amercia was far more racist and actively discriminating against blacks. Have you ever read any of their work?
 
Isn't that true of any group of people? That's not unique to blacks. I am not saying there aren't obstacles but you honestly believe the plight of black people is entirely the result of racism?

It's more complicated than that. After slavery ended, black people still faced a lot of legal discrimination in the south, and they were still very poor. So to escape that, and to find better economic opportunities, they migrated to northern cities to find good paying manufacturing jobs which didn't require a lot of education that black families couldn't necessarily afford. And for a while black communities were relatively prosperous.

But now that manufacturing has largely been outsourced, those jobs no longer exist, and black communities are left stranded in those cities with fewer and fewer prospects for success or advancement. It is small wonder that so many turn to crime. Add to that the prejudicial and financial barriers which have always existed for black people, and you begin to see why they have been largely unable to extricate themselves from their overall situation.
 
It's more complicated than that. After slavery ended, black people still faced a lot of legal discrimination in the south, and they were still very poor. So to escape that, and to find better economic opportunities, they migrated to northern cities to find good paying manufacturing jobs which didn't require a lot of education that black families couldn't necessarily afford. And for a while black communities were relatively prosperous.

But now that manufacturing has largely been outsourced, those jobs no longer exist, and black communities are left stranded in those cities with fewer and fewer prospects for success or advancement. It is small wonder that so many turn to crime. Add to that the prejudicial and financial barriers which have always existed for black people, and you begin to see why they have been largely unable to extricate themselves from their overall situation.

Yet somehow some people are able to do it? Do you have any idea why people like Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams are not more obvious role models in the black community? They overcame all the obstacles you just highlighted. Don't you think they would be heroes in the black community? I have a hypothesis about why they arent but would love to hear your thoughts.
 
Isn't that true of any group of people? That's not unique to blacks. I am not saying there aren't obstacles but you honestly believe the plight of black people is entirely the result of racism?

Redlining is unique to Blacks and its consequences present a barrier to them building wealth.
 
Yet somehow some people are able to do it? Do you have any idea why people like Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams are not more obvious role models in the black community? They overcame all the obstacles you just highlighted. Don't you think they would be heroes in the black community? I have a hypothesis about why they arent but would love to hear your thoughts.

And plenty of white people are poor. That doesn't mean that racist barriers have prevented Blacks from gaining wealth.
 
Redlining is unique to Blacks and its consequences present a barrier to them building wealth.

Thats not what I was referring to. The poster I replied to suggested some blacks succeed when other don't due to hard work, brains etc etc. I said that true no matter who you are. My brother was 5 times smarter than me but wouldn't put in any effort. He died alone and broke. Being white and smart didn't do him a lick of good.
 
And plenty of white people are poor. That doesn't mean that racist barriers have prevented Blacks from gaining wealth.

It doesn't prevent all blacks from gaining wealth does it? And you're right there are poor whites so being white is no advantage to them is it? Something else must be the cause of their circumstances.
 
Yet somehow some people are able to do it? Do you have any idea why people like Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams are not more obvious role models in the black community? They overcame all the obstacles you just highlighted. Don't you think they would be heroes in the black community? I have a hypothesis about why they arent but would love to hear your thoughts.

Because they support an economic system that has served to keep most Blacks oppressed?
 
It's doesn't prevent all blacks does it? And you're right there are poor whites so being white is no advantage to them is it? Something must be the cause of their circumstances.

I have explained the circumstances that have served to prevent Blacks from gaining wealth. Perhaps you could explain the ones that have enabled some to escape it.
 
Thats not what I was referring to. The poster I replied to suggested some blacks succeed when other don't due to hard work, brains etc etc. I said that true no matter who you are. My brother was 5 times smarter than me but wouldn't put in any effort. He died alone and broke. Being white and smart didn't do him a lick of good.

But there weren't social barriers preventing him.
 
Because they support an economic system that has served to keep most Blacks oppressed?

You mean the oppressive system that resulted in their success? Do you even hear yourself?
 
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Yet somehow some people are able to do it? Do you have any idea why people like Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams are not more obvious role models in the black community? They overcame all the obstacles you just highlighted. Don't you think they would be heroes in the black community? I have a hypothesis about why they arent but would love to hear your thoughts.

Other than being in the middle class, I don't see either of these men having much wealth or power outside the white community that hold them up as examples.
 
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