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After decades of pushing bachelor’s degrees, U.S. needs more tradespeople

Dittohead not!

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After decades of pushing bachelor’s degrees, U.S. needs more tradespeople


Now California is spending $6 million on a campaign to revive the reputation of vocational education, and $200 million to improve the delivery of it.


Related: Manufacturers say their worker shortage is getting worse. Here’s why



“It’s a cultural rebuild,” said Randy Emery, a welding instructor at the College of the Sequoias in California’s Central Valley.


What a great idea! Too bad someone didn't think of it sooner.


Riddle: What's the difference between a liberal arts major and a large pizza?




Answer: A large pizza can feed a family of four.
 
That's pretty harsh joke, lol.

But for too long I have felt we have just pushed college as a necessity. It's not. I think that there is absolutely nothing wrong with Trade School. The US doesn't need the number of psychology and business majors that come out of University. And I believe because of this over population of University students, the quality and standards has fallen. Not everyone needs to go to college, not everyone should go to college.
 
There is no reason one can't go to a trade school to learn a skill but also go to some college to increase their knowledge.

I have been both a steel worker and a RN. Completely different fields but gives you such a wider exposure to life.
 
When I got my Bachelor's and Master's degrees I was making only 25-28k year for some years. Now I am making 48k year, but I really regret college all together. All the skilled trades seem to be doing better than many local college grads I know in my area. It really depends where you went to school I am coming to a conclusion. For example graduates from my local college that I went to have an average starting salary of 27k a year. The University of Michigan fairs much better than my college but myself and many people I know never could get SAT scores high enough to go there. I truly wish years ago I was told by teachers average ability students are much better off going into the trades, truck driving, the railroad, or steelworker route then college.
 
I think it depends on what you think college is for. A liberal arts education is not intended to get you a job, but to make you a well-rounded intelligent person. If you want to go to college to get a well-paying job you better be good and math and get into a STEM field. Barring that, your best bet for making money is to learn a trade. For the last 20 or so year, I've seen kids encouraged to go to college, but they aren't really sure what they want to do so they pick a major like English or Communications. Both of those are good fields of study, but you aren't going to be able to leverage them to get a great job. Those degrees are for people who want to be writers or go to journalism school later. The colleges don't really do anything to help people understand these differences as most of them just want the $$'s.
 
I think it depends on what you think college is for. A liberal arts education is not intended to get you a job, but to make you a well-rounded intelligent person. If you want to go to college to get a well-paying job you better be good and math and get into a STEM field. Barring that, your best bet for making money is to learn a trade. For the last 20 or so year, I've seen kids encouraged to go to college, but they aren't really sure what they want to do so they pick a major like English or Communications. Both of those are good fields of study, but you aren't going to be able to leverage them to get a great job. Those degrees are for people who want to be writers or go to journalism school later. The colleges don't really do anything to help people understand these differences as most of them just want the $$'s.
I'm in college to a BA degree in Finance/Accounting and then maybe complete a MACC program to get my CPA.
 
I'm in college to a BA degree in Finance/Accounting and then maybe complete a MACC program to get my CPA.

I would kind of lump that in with the math part of STEM. Finance/Accounting is also a good degree with practical job applications. I myself, am a finance guy although on the Planning and Analysis side instead of the Accounting side.
 
Smart way to go IMO, I always encourage my nieces and nephews in that direction.

Easier to have your own business that way too IMO.
 
I think it depends on what you think college is for. A liberal arts education is not intended to get you a job, but to make you a well-rounded intelligent person.

The question then becomes, how much is someone willing to pay and/or go in debt for to become a well-rounded intelligent person? The fact is that few if any go to college for that reason.
 
Props to California. It's not that college is necessarily bad. People just need options, not a requirement. That's how you rack up mountains of debt.
 
The question then becomes, how much is someone willing to pay and/or go in debt for to become a well-rounded intelligent person? The fact is that few if any go to college for that reason.

Several years ago, when I was still the middle of my bachelor's degree in economics, we had a discussion about this issue during an econometrics course with the professor. The discussion started over problems that arose because the union covering student who worked at the university placed absurd demands on the administration and basically lumped all auxilary teaching and grading duties right into the hands of professors. To be clear, the demands really were absurd. For example, save for the business school, all faculties were loosing students each semester. Yet, one of the demands was a guarantee of hours which essentially means asking the administration to find work to students when less work is needed and less revenues are comming in. There was also a dispute among professors because their own union refused to pressure the union of supporting staff and working students. In the midst of all that nonsense, the dean of the business school said in public he was thinking of separating the business school from the university. And this is where the discussion started in class.

But, that was not the only complaint he had to make. He also pointed out that students in the business school aren't interested in politicizing their campus and almost always reject proposals to go on a strike. I think it was way back in 2012, all universities went on a semester long strike. When that happened, students in the business school voted to take one afternoon off, in solidarity and resumed their studies immediately thereafter. Just to be clear, program-specific and faculty-wide student associations are the ones that have the power to vote for a strike, but they do not have the power to force a strike outside of their domain of activity. In other words, if the undergraduate economics student association votes for a strike, bachelor-level courses in economics are canceled until further notice. Radicals love to talk about democracy, except when people disagree with them. So, unsurprisingly, they disrupted many courses throughout the semester.


I don't think you realize the difference in attitude and goals between someone who studies in a business school versus someone who studies in the humanities and social sciences. People who study in business school are there to get a job. They study management science, information technologies, accounting, marketing, finance, etc. with the explicit purpose of getting a job that is tightly related to their field of study -- or, to get an MBA or a master's in a related field to then, you guessed it, get a job in their field. There is such a huge contrast between these people and people from other faculties... you have to see it to understand how deep the division is. The economics department is sort of on the fence, although people who study economics tend to also mean business: they study it to become economists. In Canada, that means at least a master's degree and, unsurprisingly, people often do both right at that same place and then apply for junior positions.

Now, if you get outside of this universe, things are very, very different. Students in philosophy aren't there for a job. Students in the arts aren't there for a job. Students in political science aren't there for a job. Although you'd be surprised at how interested banks can be at people who can look into geopolitical risks, it doesn't matter because most of those kids are so radical they would spit on the offer right away. A lot of people do go to university to acquire general knowledge.
 
Now, if you get outside of this universe, things are very, very different. Students in philosophy aren't there for a job. Students in the arts aren't there for a job. Students in political science aren't there for a job. Although you'd be surprised at how interested banks can be at people who can look into geopolitical risks, it doesn't matter because most of those kids are so radical they would spit on the offer right away. A lot of people do go to university to acquire general knowledge.

That is still a small percentage as far as I'm concerned, and that is my experience being someone who works in a high school. I suppose the people you mention here aren't paying for their own schooling. Nowadays 4 years of college can easily put one into a $100,000 of debt. The thing is with all those liberal arts subjects you mention one can learn that on their own for free and can have plenty of discussion and debate with others on those subjects outside a classroom. The majority of the content knowledge is just as well learned through various other means outside of sitting through lectures much of which most people don't absorb.
 
That is still a small percentage as far as I'm concerned, and that is my experience being someone who works in a high school. I suppose the people you mention here aren't paying for their own schooling. Nowadays 4 years of college can easily put one into a $100,000 of debt. The thing is with all those liberal arts subjects you mention one can learn that on their own for free and can have plenty of discussion and debate with others on those subjects outside a classroom. The majority of the content knowledge is just as well learned through various other means outside of sitting through lectures much of which most people don't absorb.

Liberal arts degrees are supposed to teach you about what it means to be human, about who you are as a person and how to organize your thoughts to present them clearly. In many cases, they do not even teach you this because the fields have become heavily politicized and it has come to taint and pollute every aspect therein. But even in the cases where you do not end up living in a radicalizing intellectual bubble, those aren't degrees where you will be focusing on technical skills, nor on practical, hands on training. Virtually nothing specific to what you studied will be of direct interest to employers. It's granted that a degree from a sufficiently prestigious institution is a noisy measure of your general intelligence and of some personality traits such as conscientiousness. Most of these people might be presumed to be more interesting than someone who only has a high school degree. But that's about as far as it goes. In some cases, you might even bumb into people who do not want to risk bringing trouble to their businesses by hiring someone who might be very politicized. It's not like scandals involving vandalism, aggravated assaults, threats and censorship on college campuses has been good publicity for liberal arts or even for college as a whole.

I really do not see how someone can think they will get a good job out of that. It doesn't give you anything you can market. On the other hand, if you study accounting, marketing, finance, management, engineering, etc. we have obvious direct applications of that everywhere. It's not unusual for those programs to boast hiring rates out of college in the upper 90%. That's because those programs are designed to give you marketable skills. The only real exception in there is economics. In Canada, you'd probably not get a junior position as an economist without a master's, but you could get something related because you usually know about accounting, finance, computer programming and quite a bit of statistics. One of my friend got a job for a bank working on detecting credit card fraud for a bank late in his undergraduate degree. Another was working in the complaints department of a bank and he got promoted when he pitched the idea to his boss of autmating a lot of simple data manipulation tasks everybody was doing by hand. Once he got stuff running, they never stopped asking for more. He finished his degree, got a master's and then go offered a fat raise to work in a more senior position at the same bank. Those are just two examples, but it's not uncommon for moderately good students in economics to get these kinds of offers.


So, why exactly do you think someone would walk into college, study for a liberal arts degree and be convinced it's going to get them hired for a very good job? Don't get me wrong. I live in Canada, so maybe things are vastly different in the US and there is something I am missing here. I'm genuinely at a loss as to what you're saying.
 
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I'm saying the same thing that your are saying (if I understand you correctly). A liberal arts degree and those types of classes associated with them are a waste in any practical sense. There are few to no jobs (outside of education) for historians, sociologists, philosophers, political scientists, etc., etc., etc. Now for some people who are liberal arts major, they are considering going to law school. You can major in anything to go to law school. There are some positions in the work force that will hire people without a specific degree. One doesn't need a specific degree to sell insurance, or sell just about anything else for that matter. Most if not all people in those types of positions have college degrees. There are also many students who are ignorant and don't know what they want and will be a liberal arts major because it's easier with the idea that just having the degree will make them marketable.
 
When I got my Bachelor's and Master's degrees I was making only 25-28k year for some years. Now I am making 48k year, but I really regret college all together. All the skilled trades seem to be doing better than many local college grads I know in my area. It really depends where you went to school I am coming to a conclusion. For example graduates from my local college that I went to have an average starting salary of 27k a year. The University of Michigan fairs much better than my college but myself and many people I know never could get SAT scores high enough to go there. I truly wish years ago I was told by teachers average ability students are much better off going into the trades, truck driving, the railroad, or steelworker route then college.
I have a 4 yr. college degree, and several other 2 year degrees but I could not make the money I did being an industrial electrician , there is no where I could have earned over 120,000 a year with my degrees.
and I have promoted going to Trade schools or getting a Union Apprenticeship or years, Plumbers , good carpenters , electricians both industrial and household, are in high demand and pay VERY well
Right now I know a kid who is very good at Basketball and wants to go to collage basically to play ball hoping to go pro, I said well good for you but you might want to find something that you can fall back on because getting a chance to be a pro B ball player is very slim
I hope to talk him into becoming an electrician with a college degree , I am telling him to study up on his math and some other courses I hope he takes my advice
If he does become a pro. B ball player well good for him if not at least he will be making really good money as an electrician
have a good night
 
After decades of pushing bachelor’s degrees, U.S. needs more tradespeople





What a great idea! Too bad someone didn't think of it sooner.


Riddle: What's the difference between a liberal arts major and a large pizza?




Answer: A large pizza can feed a family of four.

The problem with this article is the this employer and many other employers are looking for ready made employees. What ever happened to training on the job. That used to be a thing. Everyone is looking for experienced workers, but no one is willing to help a worker get experience
 
The problem with this article is the this employer and many other employers are looking for ready made employees. What ever happened to training on the job. That used to be a thing. Everyone is looking for experienced workers, but no one is willing to help a worker get experience

That is a huge problem for the young just starting out, as well as for those whose skills have become obsolete. How do you get experience without a job? How do you get a job without experience?

There are no easy answers to that one. At one time, on the job training was a lot easier to get. From the point of view of the employer, it doesn't pay to train a worker who is likely to go elsewhere or who really doesn't want to work at all.
 
That is a huge problem for the young just starting out, as well as for those whose skills have become obsolete. How do you get experience without a job? How do you get a job without experience?

There are no easy answers to that one. At one time, on the job training was a lot easier to get. From the point of view of the employer, it doesn't pay to train a worker who is likely to go elsewhere or who really doesn't want to work at all.
It was Evers problem in the past and it should not be a problem now. The only reason people leave jobs is for better pay or better benefits. Most people who seek work want to work
 
It was Evers problem in the past and it should not be a problem now. The only reason people leave jobs is for better pay or better benefits. Most people who seek work want to work

Usually, the reason is better pay/benefits, but not necessarily. If the employee is commuting, and finds a job closer to home, if a woman has a baby, if a spouse finds a job in another state, there are lots of reasons to change jobs. The key for the employer is to find a trainee who isn't likely to move any time soon.
 
When I got my Bachelor's and Master's degrees I was making only 25-28k year for some years. Now I am making 48k year, but I really regret college all together. All the skilled trades seem to be doing better than many local college grads I know in my area. It really depends where you went to school I am coming to a conclusion. For example graduates from my local college that I went to have an average starting salary of 27k a year. The University of Michigan fairs much better than my college but myself and many people I know never could get SAT scores high enough to go there. I truly wish years ago I was told by teachers average ability students are much better off going into the trades, truck driving, the railroad, or steelworker route then college.

What do you do with a psychology degree or sociology degree? Preach about racism to whoever is dumb enough to listen to you. Learn technology trades. Manufacturing automation techs.
 
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