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Thread: The Patriarchy...or the Best System?

  1. #31
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    Re: The Patriarchy...or the Best System?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoMereRanger View Post
    Shorthand for "I've already made a poorly defended point, please refer back to it and quit forcing me to expand upon it." LOL
    That's pathetic but I'll respond for the audience.

    When I posted:
    Boys are taught to be aggressive, go after what they want, take leadership positions. Girls are taught to be patient and courteous.

    It's not biological.
    I was referring to the OP and gender roles. I was speaking of the difference between men and women, not about an individual.

    Again, who is "conditioning" men to be aggressive? Is it other men? If so who "conditioned" the first men to be aggressive and the first women to be nurturing? When we were still monkeys did the male monkeys hoot aggressively at the boy monkeys in order to enforce the idea that they needed to be aggressive as well? Or don't all animal species display traits and characteristics specific to their genders without any social pressure or conditioning? Animals certainly aren't "conditioned", they rely on instinct, and since we're basically glorified animals...
    Men have been taught to be aggressive, and women to be passive, since the dawn of man.

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    Re: The Patriarchy...or the Best System?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoMereRanger View Post
    No worries. I think I mostly tracked what you were saying and I think we're pretty much in agreement.

    And I believe that's 100% correct, fulfillment is extremely important when it comes to what you do. That's why we're fortunate that for every possible skill or ability that we have need of, there's a decently sized demographic that enjoys filling that need. I'll use the architect example again since I have a friend who is one. He started school pretty much knowing that he wanted to be an architect. He focused on his goal, committed himself to getting his degree for it and enjoyed doing it. No real reason WHY he enjoys it, he just does. He's also naturally good at it, in that he grasps all the principles and concepts related to being a good architect and now he had a job in a good firm that he makes good money in, doing what he loves. Again, why is naturally good at all this? I don't have a clear answer other than that's how he was born, for lack of a better term. Just like how I was born to lift heavy things and argue with people on the internet(maybe I'm not the best at the latter but I enjoy doing it).

    Affirmative action truly is the worst. We're seeing it a lot in the fire service now(first hand for me). The FDNY has actually been making news lately because of it. They're now so obsessed with getting a certain percentage of each demographic that they're apparently forgetting that they need to get the people who are best at lifting heavy **** and breaking down doors. Your point about women leaving to have kids is exactly correct I think, any professional career demands basically your entire life, whether it's STEM, doctor, lawyer, whatever. Men are best suited for that because they a) can't bear kids themselves, and b) can use their careers to provide for their families, which means they can get double the fulfillment out of both working and providing(the need to provide for someone else, btw, is something I firmly believe is built into the male psych, no matter what the slackers may tell you). Now maybe certain women WILL go back to work in a demanding career after having kids, that's perfectly fine obviously, but the vast majority won't because their base instinct now is to take care of that child that they just spent 9 months growing inside them. Again, no one size fits all but it's certainly not "society" saying they have to go back to work.

    We do agree. Feminists equate 50/50 with equality when really equality comes from being free to do what you do best, whether it's STEM, child rearing or whatever else. Being equal doesn't mean we have to be the same. Being different is what makes us strongest as we've already discussed.
    Hey Welcome Aboard DP, I hope you like it here and stick around.
    When society throws away the Truth Tellers prepare for the worst, for it is surely coming.
    Open your eyes and your mind and then speak truth..........That is the only way forwards.

  3. #33
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    Re: The Patriarchy...or the Best System?

    For the Thread:

    Male Uber drivers make 7 percent more than women who drive for the ride-sharing company, a new paper from the National Bureau of Economic Research shows.

    Analyzing data from more than 1 million Uber drivers, researchers discovered some reasons behind the differences, The Washington Post reports.

    Men tend to drive faster, giving them the opportunity to make more trips, the research revealed. Men who drive an average of 2.2 percent faster than women explained at least half of the wage gap.

    Men also will risk driving in locations that will bring them more money, but might feel less safe for women drivers. Driving more late-night hours also gave men a financial advantage, Yahoo Finance reports.
    https://www.bizjournals.com/bizwomen...make-less.html

    Men are more productive UBER drivers....if the feminists have a problem with that they can suck it.
    When society throws away the Truth Tellers prepare for the worst, for it is surely coming.
    Open your eyes and your mind and then speak truth..........That is the only way forwards.

  4. #34
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    Re: The Patriarchy...or the Best System?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoMereRanger View Post
    How is that contrary to what I was saying? I basically agree with your statement here.
    Because you made it sound like it's a conscious decision. For the most part, it's not altho society acts on individuals a great deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoMereRanger View Post
    I only posit that, in general, men tend to gravitate towards certain roles and women towards others because we realized that it was best for the continuation of our species. For example, men tend to be more assertive and bigger assholes, which make them better leaders. Women tend to be more empathetic and understanding, making them better caretakers.
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  5. #35
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    Re: The Patriarchy...or the Best System?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Individual biology plays a role. Plenty of men are inclined to be passive. But what makes the difference between sexes, what creates the disparity in aggression, is socialization not biology.
    I don't know how you can make that claim and pretend like you are so sure. We know that men and women have different amounts of hormones, on average, flowing through their body. We also know that if we give you a bunch of different hormones that little personality traits will likely change. Nearly all depression meds have to do with balancing chemicals that your body naturally produces and contains. So if we know for a fact that these balances are in fact different among the sexes and that these balances can affect these traits, you simply can't make the claim that biology has nothing to do with it.

    On top of that, if it were only society that played in to the difference between the sexes then we should see some societies that completely disregard the "norm" as we see it. Women should be more aggressive etc. But we really don't see that. We see different levels of civility depending on the culture, but the men are still more likely to flock to certain jobs, more likely to commit crimes, be aggressive etc. and the women are more likely to want to take caretaker positions such as nursing or service related jobs or stay home with the kids.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  6. #36
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    Re: The Patriarchy...or the Best System?

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    I don't know how you can make that claim and pretend like you are so sure. We know that men and women have different amounts of hormones, on average, flowing through their body. We also know that if we give you a bunch of different hormones that little personality traits will likely change. Nearly all depression meds have to do with balancing chemicals that your body naturally produces and contains. So if we know for a fact that these balances are in fact different among the sexes and that these balances can affect these traits, you simply can't make the claim that biology has nothing to do with it.

    On top of that, if it were only society that played in to the difference between the sexes then we should see some societies that completely disregard the "norm" as we see it. Women should be more aggressive etc. But we really don't see that. We see different levels of civility depending on the culture, but the men are still more likely to flock to certain jobs, more likely to commit crimes, be aggressive etc. and the women are more likely to want to take caretaker positions such as nursing or service related jobs or stay home with the kids.
    Biology is always a factor but social disparities are social not biological. Women are not less inclined to math, or more inclined to baking. We did that.

    Matriarchal societies have existed. Plenty of women "behave like men". Society is segregated, today, by gender roles.

  7. #37
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    Re: The Patriarchy...or the Best System?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Biology is always a factor but social disparities are social not biological. Women are not less inclined to math, or more inclined to baking. We did that.

    Matriarchal societies have existed. Plenty of women "behave like men". Society is segregated, today, by gender roles.
    Then in countries where there is complete freedom to choose your profession we should expect to see more women flocking in to jobs that you generally don't think they should flock to?

    I'm not sure if it's true or exactly how much it's true, but you just can't say that women are not less inclined to math unless you have proof. Definitive proof. As of yet I've seen none. I don't think you can make such a definitive claim.

    And even more of them don't "behave like men". Saying that some do is almost a pointless statement when looking at what we are talking about. When talking about huge groups, saying "I know of a woman that acts like a man" doesn't further your argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  8. #38
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    Re: The Patriarchy...or the Best System?

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Then in countries where there is complete freedom to choose your profession we should expect to see more women flocking in to jobs that you generally don't think they should flock to?
    Freedom does not end gender roles, expectations and conformity.

    I'm not sure if it's true or exactly how much it's true, but you just can't say that women are not less inclined to math unless you have proof. Definitive proof. As of yet I've seen none. I don't think you can make such a definitive claim.
    That's sexist ignorance. Maybe we should believe black people are less inclined, at least until you see proof otherwise?

    You do understand how presuming inferiority is sexist, right?

    And even more of them don't "behave like men". Saying that some do is almost a pointless statement when looking at what we are talking about. When talking about huge groups, saying "I know of a woman that acts like a man" doesn't further your argument.
    It proves biological sex does not dictate personality.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 07-12-18 at 10:22 AM.

  9. #39
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    Re: The Patriarchy...or the Best System?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Freedom does not end gender roles, expectations and conformity.



    That's sexist ignorance. Maybe we should believe black people are less inclined, at least until you see proof otherwise?

    You do understand how presuming inferiority is sexist, right?



    It proves biological sex does not dictate personality.
    I haven't presumed inferiority. I've merely stated that you have no evidence for your claim that biology doesn't play a role in gender differences has no evidence. I haven't made the claim that women are worse at math or that they tend to not go into careers heavy in math because they aren't intelligent enough to do so or anything like that.

    Asking for proof of a claim isn't sexism. You need to understand that. You are talking to a person that thinks women should be nothing but free to pursue any career choice that makes them happy. I'm civil engineer and I've dealt with numerous women who are better or more knowledgeable about aspects of engineering than I am, and I'm damn good at what I do. Hell, I have enjoyed working with damn near every woman that I've ever worked with where as I can't say that about all of the guys I've worked with. I've met some really stubborn assholes in the workplace that made working on a project with them almost unbearable. I've never come across that with a female designer or engineer or project manager. They aren't "inferior". I'm just saying that on whole, when speaking about the entire group, it's very likely that biology is responsible for at the very least a little bit of the difference in the average personalities between men and women. That's not a crazy statement. It's just reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    It proves biological sex does not dictate personality.
    And no one is making this claim. I have never once in my entire life said "well she's a woman so she must be *insert personality trait*" That's not the argument here. There are variations in groups. Of course. That doesn't negate any of my claims at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  10. #40
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    Re: The Patriarchy...or the Best System?

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Asking for proof of a claim isn't sexism. You need to understand that.
    Presuming a group to be inferior is bigoted. When the group presumed to be inferior is females, it's sexist. You need to understand that.

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    I'm not sure if it's true or exactly how much it's true, but you just can't say that women are not less inclined to math unless you have proof. Definitive proof. As of yet I've seen none. I don't think you can make such a definitive claim.
    Presuming women are inferior. The definition of sexism.

    What would you call someone who says, "I'm not sure if it's true or exactly how much it's true, but you just can't say that blacks are not less inclined to math unless you have proof. Definitive proof. As of yet I've seen none. I don't think you can make such a definitive claim."

    There's no ****ing grey area there, right?
    Last edited by ecofarm; 07-12-18 at 11:43 AM.

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