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Richard Dawkins' Compound Ignorant Mistakes

MrWonderful

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Richard Dawkins, the quote miner - Evolutionary biologist at Oxford and prominent atheist who consistently has expressed his *rationality* in an unnecessarily hateful manner.

“I don’t know who it was first pointed out that, given enough time, a monkey bashing away at random on a typewriter could produce all the works of Shakespeare.” - The Blind Watchmaker, by Richard Dawkins, page 46


I offer a $500 reward to any atheist or Darwinist who can accurately quote a book written by an atheist, which condemns another prominent atheist for "quote mining." You will read many smug put-downs of Christians and doubters of Darwin by atheists for the formers' "quote mining." Find one published example, in a book found in libraries, of one atheist/Darwinist, by another, and $500 is yours.

NOT ONLY did Dawkins commit the atheist *irrationality* of quote mining, but he also COMPOUNDED IT in two amusingly ignorant ways, this pretender of Exceptional Brightness.
1. He badly misquoted the arguably original author of the false quote.
2. He abused the very idea of statistics embedded in the real quote, or his own made up version, take your pick.
And while I'm at it, his third ignorant mistake occurs to me, he was too lazy to look up the author of the quote he abused so terribly in two other distinctly different, ignorant ways.

I will correct all three of Dawkins' irrational oversights.

1. The correct quote is: "If an army of monkeys were strumming on typewriters they might write all the books in the British Museum."
2. The probability of "an army of monkeys" strumming on typewriters to produce just one sentence, 50 characters in length, using only 50 different possible keystrokes available on a typewriter (26 letters + 10 numbers + characters and upper case exceeds 50 but let's just use that number) is 1 chance in 50 to the 50th. This equals 1 chance in 10 to the 84th power. In other words, the "army of monkeys" would have to "strum" 10 to the 84th power of lines BEFORE they were likely to produce one single line of any book you might choose.
There are *only* 10 to the 80th fundamental particles in the universe. Dawkins himself defines "impossible" as 1 chance in 10 to the 40th power, so.....

3. – Physicist Arthur Eddington, The Nature of the Physical World, 1928

In one of his typically hateful responses, Dawkins emailed me, calling me "stupid," after I pointed out error after error after error in several of his books. He could not address his glaring oversights and ignorance honestly, rationally, so instead, he did what atheists everywhere do so routinely. He attacked me and my "stupidity." Which points out yet another atheist hypocrisy/irrationality/anti-scientific strut:
The Fallacy of the Argument from Authority. Atheists/Darwinists cite this fallacy often when condemning those of us they "despise," as Dawkins writes in one of his books, but irrationally never notice their own practice of that very fallacy. They pretend/claim/assert that they are always and ever of superior intellect to those they "despise" but when trapped in their own web of mendacious mediocrity, the best that they can do is fall back on that very Fallacy of the Argument From Authority. You're stupid. I'm brilliant. Shut up.

$500. Who's game? [Don't be lazy. Google ain't gonna cut it. And don't cheat. Cheating has been rampant among atheists/Darwinists for centuries. It's anti-science and irrational.]

“Many people don’t realize that science basically involves assumptions and faith. Wonderful things in both science and religion come from our efforts based on observations, thoughtful assumptions, faith and logic. (With the findings of modern physics, it) seems extremely unlikely (that the existence of life and humanity are ) just accidental.” – Charles Townes, Nobel Laureate and Professor of Physics at UC Berkeley
Footnote: There is ALSO a fourth error implicit in Dawkins misguided misquote.

ANY TIME a "Fundie/Creo/YEC" (That is a derisive group of terms for non-Darwinists, near and dear to Darwinists themselves) misquotes someone else, the whole of the Fundie/Creo/YEC message is instantly dismissed as being worthless. Do atheists/Darwinists ever discredit their own for misquoting others? I have yet to see it, and am tempted to offer a second $500 reward for any atheist/Darwinist to cite such an example in a published book. But I cannot due to the fact that cheating has been so widespread among them for so many centuries/decades that it is all too likely to be attempted here. [See Icons of Evolution for specifics of long-term, ongoing cheating by their side.]
A fifth: IF, in fact, I were as "stupid" as Dawkins/atheists/Darwinists claim all the time, how is it possible that I can critique Dawkins so comprehensively?

A speculative sixth: (I'm *stupid* and everything I said was wrong. And stupid.)
 
I have no explanation for complex biological design. All I know is that God isn't a good explanation, so we must wait and hope that somebody comes up with a better one. - Richard Dawkins

The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference. - Richard Dawkins

It's "complex biological design." It's "no design." The *science* and *rationality* of atheists is exactly what they say at just this moment in time. [Subject to change. If you don't understand, you're stupid. A>B>C>D. There is no God and we hate Him.]
 
I have no explanation for complex biological design. All I know is that God isn't a good explanation, so we must wait and hope that somebody comes up with a better one. - Richard Dawkins

The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference. - Richard Dawkins

It's "complex biological design." It's "no design." The *science* and *rationality* of atheists is exactly what they say at just this moment in time. [Subject to change. If you don't understand, you're stupid. A>B>C>D. There is no God and we hate Him.]

Not above a little quote mining/redacting yourself then.
 
Not above a little quote mining/redacting yourself then.


"Quote mining" is one of the standard Talking Points of Darwinists. Darwinists viciously malign any "Creo" or "YEC" or "skeptic" who "quote mines."
But Darwinists quote mine relentlessly, often from the Bible, and not one other Darwinist screams "quote mine" when Darwinists quote mine.
It's strictly a one-way street, hypocritical in the extreme.

The only way to avoid "quote mining" as it is called by YOUR SIDE is to reproduce the entire book, or paper. That would of course be insanely cumbersome, and Darwinists don't bother with long, drawn out messages either, not to mention the copyright infringement.

Why don't you address the points I made instead of trying to make an issue out of irrelevancies? Attack the messenger and ignore the message.
Yours is the Fallacy of the Ad Hominem Attack. Come on, you can do better than that. Try.
 
Not above a little quote mining/redacting yourself then.


HERE'S your problem. YOUR ATHEIST FRIENDS AND YOU endlessly whine about "quote mining," just as I said you do. I think that quoting someone is perfectly legitimate, provided it is accurate, it is interpreted honestly, and not taken out of context. Do those things, and quote "mine" me any time. Atheists just never do it properly because atheists are consummately dishonest.

As I said, atheists don't ever whine about ANOTHER atheist "quote mining." Find me a published example and you win $500. Go, fish.
 
HERE'S your problem. YOUR ATHEIST FRIENDS AND YOU endlessly whine about "quote mining," just as I said you do. I think that quoting someone is perfectly legitimate, provided it is accurate, it is interpreted honestly, and not taken out of context. Do those things, and quote "mine" me any time. Atheists just never do it properly because atheists are consummately dishonest.

As I said, atheists don't ever whine about ANOTHER atheist "quote mining." Find me a published example and you win $500. Go, fish.

If that is what you think then you don't understand the meaning of the phrase. Quote mining is digging around in a famous person's output and selecting out of context phrases which contradict their position, or indeed "editing" them in order to misrepresent what they say, the easier to attack them.
Frankly, Dawkins tends to generalise the more fringey radicals such as your good self as representative of Christianity as a whole, which is not the case.
 
If that is what you think then you don't understand the meaning of the phrase. Quote mining is digging around in a famous person's output and selecting out of context phrases which contradict their position, or indeed "editing" them in order to misrepresent what they say, the easier to attack them.
Frankly, Dawkins tends to generalise the more fringey radicals such as your good self as representative of Christianity as a whole, which is not the case.

Why don't YOU put it IN CONTEXT for everyone reading this, hmmm?

That should be quite easy for someone as supremely intellectual as you claim to be.
 
In order to properly defend yourself against accusations of quote mining:

1) You need to understand what the term means.
2) You need to avoid Whataboutism.
3) You need to stop doing it.

Your post strongly suggests you don't understand what it means. It doesn't mean "getting a quote wrong." It refers to taking quotes out of context, in a way that reverses their meaning.

E.g. Dawkins was not distorting the meaning of the "Infinite Monkey Theorem." He referred to it when illustrating how cumulative steps can make short work of what might otherwise be a difficult task. It is irrelevant that he did not cite the same source you used for the Infinite Monkey Theorem, because he got the basic concept correct.

Obviously, accusing Dawkins of "he does it too!" (i.e. Whataboutism) does not excuse anyone else from quote mining.

And yes, it's obvious that you quote mined in your earlier post about hemoglobin... and in this very thread, where you complain about people calling you out for quote mining. If people keep calling you out on it, that might be because you're quote mining. It's a practice that trashes your credibility, so you really ought to stop it.

Quote mining is wrong, no matter who does it. It just happens to be more commonly used at this time by opponents of evolution, as well as certain low-quality right-wing media outlets (like Breitbart). It is not exclusive to those groups (e.g. see RationalWiki's page on the topic), but it is heavily used by them. I'm not sure why that's the case, but I suspect that it's connected to intellectual bankruptcy and desperation.


As to the allegations of fallacious appeals to authority: That's not an example of quote mining. It has nothing to do with quote mining. However, as long as you brought it up, it's critical to note how that fallacy works. If you're appealing to evidence produced by an individual (e.g. "Darwin proved X,") that's not fallacious. I.e. it's only a fallacy when the claim in question is weak or insufficient or otherwise invalid, and the only reason it's treated as valid is because of the identity of the individual associated with the evidence. E.g. Einstein's famous quote that "God does not play dice with the universe" is not based on evidence, it's based on Einstein's personal preferences. We can cite it to illustrate Einstein's opinions about quantum mechanics, but it is not a valid claim, because there is no evidence to back it.
 
By the way... I do have to point out that ad hominem attacks on Richard Dawkins is another awful tactic that destroys your credibility. Something is not right or wrong because Dawkins said it, and the ideas he espouses are not proven wrong because he's rude to religious believers. His ideas about evolution and religion are either correct or incorrect based on the merit of the ideas.
 
"Quote mining" is one of the standard Talking Points of Darwinists. Darwinists viciously malign any "Creo" or "YEC" or "skeptic" who "quote mines."
But Darwinists quote mine relentlessly, often from the Bible, and not one other Darwinist screams "quote mine" when Darwinists quote mine.
It's strictly a one-way street, hypocritical in the extreme.

The only way to avoid "quote mining" as it is called by YOUR SIDE is to reproduce the entire book, or paper. That would of course be insanely cumbersome, and Darwinists don't bother with long, drawn out messages either, not to mention the copyright infringement.

Why don't you address the points I made instead of trying to make an issue out of irrelevancies? Attack the messenger and ignore the message.
Yours is the Fallacy of the Ad Hominem Attack. Come on, you can do better than that. Try.

Have you read Dawkins’ books?

Quote mining is the perfect term for people who constantly throw in scriptures to make some point.
 
Have you read Dawkins’ books?

Quote mining is the perfect term for people who constantly throw in scriptures to make some point.


1. I have read many of Dawkins' books. Have you?
2. As I pointed out, Dawkins quote mines very badly and you atheists never criticize him when he quote mines.
3. Atheists throw scriptures in to make points they misconstrue and misunderstand, and you don't mind atheist quote mines of scriptures.

Did you bother to read my opening post, which explains all of these things?
 
]As I pointed out, Dawkins quote mines very badly and you atheists never criticize him when he quote mines.
You have provided no examples of Dawkins quote mining. And no, what you put in your first post isn't even close.


Atheists throw scriptures in to make points they misconstrue and misunderstand, and you don't mind atheist quote mines of scriptures.
You've provided no examples of this either.
 
“I don’t know who it was first pointed out that, given enough time, a monkey bashing away at random on a typewriter could produce all the works of Shakespeare.” - The Blind Watchmaker, by Richard Dawkins, page 46


Dawkins horribly misquoted the author of monkeys bashing away on typewriters , as I said.
He misconstrued mathematics and common sense along with his ignorant misquote and misunderstanding.
You fail to begin to address his ignorance.
 
“I don’t know who it was first pointed out that, given enough time, a monkey bashing away at random on a typewriter could produce all the works of Shakespeare.” - The Blind Watchmaker, by Richard Dawkins, page 46

Dawkins horribly misquoted the author of monkeys bashing away on typewriters , as I said.
Hahahahahahaha

Oh, the irony. You are quote mining Dawkins, in an attempt to accuse him of quote mining. And you're doing it in a way that shows you don't understand what quote mining is in the first place.

Again, quote mining isn't just "getting the phrasing of a quote wrong." It is taking a quote out of context, specifically to misconstrue the opinion of the individual, to suggest that they believe the opposite of what they actually believe.

E.g. if you quote half a phrase to suggest that Einstein rejected relativity, then you're quote mining. If you say that "Einstein said 'God does not play roulette with the universe,'" you've incorrectly substituted "roulette" for "dice." However, you've still got the gist, and you are not misrepresenting his views, thus you are not quote mining.

So: Here's more of the passage from Dawkins' book, which ought to make your error more obvious.

I don't know who it was first pointed out that, given enough time, a monkey bashing away at random on a typewriter could produce all the works of Shakespeare. The operative phrase is, of course, given enough time. Let us limit the task facing our monkey somewhat. Suppose that he has to produce, not the complete works of Shakespeare but just the short sentence 'Methinks it is like a weasel', and we shall make it relatively easy by giving him a typewriter with a restricted keyboard, one with just the 26 (capital) letters, and a space bar. How long will he take to write this one little sentence?

He then continues to develop a description of the "Weasel Program," which shows that a random process can produce results much faster than expected, when it's a cumulative process (rather than each iteration running randomly, as used by the IMT).

• His articulation of the Infinite Monkey Theorem is perfectly acceptable. In fact, it's quite common to phrase it that way.

• He did not quote any of the developers of the IMT out of context (such as Émile Borel), in a way as to suggest that Borel was opposed to the IMT (i.e. he didn't quote mine)

• He did not use the concept of the IMT to refute the IMT. In fact, he explicitly accepts that the IMT is correct. (I.e. he didn't quote mine)

• He used the IMT to introduce us to a thought experiment, to show how a random process can produce a specific result in a reasonable number of iterations, when it's a cumulative process.

So, what you have done is quoted Dawkins out of context, in a way that misconstrues his position. Since this situation is hilarious, it bears repeating that you quote mined Dawkins in order to accuse him of quote mining.

I strongly recommend that before you respond, you should you very, very carefully consider what you've done in this thread so far.
 
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1. I have read many of Dawkins' books. Have you?
2. As I pointed out, Dawkins quote mines very badly and you atheists never criticize him when he quote mines.
3. Atheists throw scriptures in to make points they misconstrue and misunderstand, and you don't mind atheist quote mines of scriptures.

Did you bother to read my opening post, which explains all of these things?

Sounds like you have a burr under your saddle over Dawkins. Quite frankly I find your opinions and disdain for Dawkins to be trivial and inconsequential.
 
Hahahahahahaha

Oh, the irony. You are quote mining Dawkins, in an attempt to accuse him of quote mining. And you're doing it in a way that shows you don't understand what quote mining is in the first place.

What I wrote stands. Your rhetoric does not.

I repeat, in hopes that you might learn.

1. He FAILED to quote the original author correctly, thus demonstrating his laziness.
2. It is NOT the "infinite monkey theorem." The original author cites considerably less than an "infinite" number of monkeys, in case you missed it, and Dawkins cites only one monkey.
One monkey is hardly infinite monkeys.
3. His "weasel program" is GUIDED. It is intelligently designed. It is nothing like an army of monkeys typing all the books in the world.
4. Your fatuous giggling is for your audience of fellow atheists. You missed the boat big time.

ciao

No more bothering to read whatever it is you have to say. It is a waste of my time.


Again, quote mining isn't just "getting the phrasing of a quote wrong." It is taking a quote out of context, specifically to misconstrue the opinion of the individual, to suggest that they believe the opposite of what they actually believe.

E.g. if you quote half a phrase to suggest that Einstein rejected relativity, then you're quote mining. If you say that "Einstein said 'God does not play roulette with the universe,'" you've incorrectly substituted "roulette" for "dice." However, you've still got the gist, and you are not misrepresenting his views, thus you are not quote mining.

So: Here's more of the passage from Dawkins' book, which ought to make your error more obvious.

I don't know who it was first pointed out that, given enough time, a monkey bashing away at random on a typewriter could produce all the works of Shakespeare. The operative phrase is, of course, given enough time. Let us limit the task facing our monkey somewhat. Suppose that he has to produce, not the complete works of Shakespeare but just the short sentence 'Methinks it is like a weasel', and we shall make it relatively easy by giving him a typewriter with a restricted keyboard, one with just the 26 (capital) letters, and a space bar. How long will he take to write this one little sentence?

He then continues to develop a description of the "Weasel Program," which shows that a random process can produce results much faster than expected, when it's a cumulative process (rather than each iteration running randomly, as used by the IMT).

• His articulation of the Infinite Monkey Theorem is perfectly acceptable. In fact, it's quite common to phrase it that way.

• He did not quote any of the developers of the IMT out of context (such as Émile Borel), in a way as to suggest that Borel was opposed to the IMT (i.e. he didn't quote mine)

• He did not use the concept of the IMT to refute the IMT. In fact, he explicitly accepts that the IMT is correct. (I.e. he didn't quote mine)

• He used the IMT to introduce us to a thought experiment, to show how a random process can produce a specific result in a reasonable number of iterations, when it's a cumulative process.

So, what you have done is quoted Dawkins out of context, in a way that misconstrues his position. Since this situation is hilarious, it bears repeating that you quote mined Dawkins in order to accuse him of quote mining.

I strongly recommend that before you respond, you should you very, very carefully consider what you've done in this thread so far.[/QUOTE]
 
1. He FAILED to quote the original author correctly, thus demonstrating his laziness.
lol

Quote mining does not mean "you quoted someone slightly inaccurately, while properly representing their position" (which is what Dawkins did). Thanks for proving, yet again, that you don't understand what "quote mining" means.

By the way, as to his phrasing? It's been around for decades. E.g. RG Collingwood wrote in 1938:

..some ... have denied this proposition, pointing out that if a monkey played with a typewriter ... he would produce ... the complete text of Shakespeare. Any reader who has nothing to do can amuse himself by calculating how long it would take for the probability to be worth betting on. But the interest of the suggestion lies in the revelation of the mental state of a person who can identify the 'works' of Shakespeare with the series of letters printed on the pages of a book...


2. It is NOT the "infinite monkey theorem."
LOL

Yes, actually, it is.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/b8f8/ce8629a8c3bfe8753247283472f6093425f7.pdf
404 Not Found.


3. His "weasel program" is GUIDED. It is intelligently designed. It is nothing like an army of monkeys typing all the books in the world.
lol

It's a thought experiment, and it doesn't require an actual conscious entity to do the guiding. Selective pressures fill the same role.

By the way, the IMT is not literally talking about actual monkeys. They are a stand-in for a truly random process.

You are welcome to stick your head in the sand, but that will not make the flaws of your arguments disappear.
 
Have you read Dawkins’ books?

I am quite certain I have read more of them than you have. But prove me wrong.
Among those I read are The Blind Watchmaker, Climbing Mount Improbable, and Viruses of the Mind.

Each is replete with ignorance and errors. Why would anyone make him richer to spew his bile and anti-science?

Quote mining is the perfect term for people who constantly throw in scriptures to make some point.

Which is the habit of you atheists, CONSTANTLY throwing in scriptures even when the subject is science, or Richard Dawkins' ignorant mistakes.
No matter HOW correctly any denier of Darwin puts a citation in context, atheists' giggly pat reply is "quote mining, quote mining," followed by the claim of victory and intellectual supremacy. How childish. How irrational.
 
I am quite certain I have read more of them than you have. But prove me wrong.
Among those I read are The Blind Watchmaker, Climbing Mount Improbable, and Viruses of the Mind.

Each is replete with ignorance and errors. Why would anyone make him richer to spew his bile and anti-science?



Which is the habit of you atheists, CONSTANTLY throwing in scriptures even when the subject is science, or Richard Dawkins' ignorant mistakes.
No matter HOW correctly any denier of Darwin puts a citation in context, atheists' giggly pat reply is "quote mining, quote mining," followed by the claim of victory and intellectual supremacy. How childish. How irrational.

How ironic. You believe in the existence of a magic being.
 
How ironic. You believe in the existence of a magic being.

You believe Magic Nothing made everything.... it's all so... simple for you. Magic Nothing and here we are.

Listen to a lecture by Professor John Lennox as he shreds Richard Dawkins and Stephen Hawking.
You are sure to learn something if you are one who enjoys learning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l63-fkyDtOc
 
You believe Magic Nothing made everything.... it's all so... simple for you. Magic Nothing and here we are.

Listen to a lecture by Professor John Lennox as he shreds Richard Dawkins and Stephen Hawking.
You are sure to learn something if you are one who enjoys learning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l63-fkyDtOc
What is the difference between a magic being and magic nothing? Anyway there is no such thing as nothing. Enjoy learning that!
https://bigthink.com/robby-berman/theres-no-such-thing-as-nothing-according-to-quantum-physics

https://io9.gizmodo.com/there-is-no-such-thing-as-emptiness-there-is-only-quan-453814024
 
I am quite certain I have read more of them than you have. But prove me wrong.
Among those I read are The Blind Watchmaker, Climbing Mount Improbable, and Viruses of the Mind.

Each is replete with ignorance and errors. Why would anyone make him richer to spew his bile and anti-science?



Which is the habit of you atheists, CONSTANTLY throwing in scriptures even when the subject is science, or Richard Dawkins' ignorant mistakes.
No matter HOW correctly any denier of Darwin puts a citation in context, atheists' giggly pat reply is "quote mining, quote mining," followed by the claim of victory and intellectual supremacy. How childish. How irrational.

Apparently for some there’s no need for science because they believe, and totally without evidence, that there is only one necessary answer to every possible question regarding any and everything about the universe.

Talk about irrational thinking. But hey, somebody has to do it. You can have the honor.
 
Apparently for some there’s no need for science because they believe, and totally without evidence, that there is only one necessary answer to every possible question regarding any and everything about the universe.

Talk about irrational thinking. But hey, somebody has to do it. You can have the honor.

I may as well play chess with a pigeon as try to explain anything to an atheist. I will expose your misinformation above, point by point:

1. Your claim of "without evidence" does a great disservice to the English language, reason, rationality, and science.
Countless books explain the evidence. Papers and lectures have explained the overwhelming evidence of brilliant design.

2. NOBODY but YOU ATHEISTS make the claim of "only one answer." ONLY YOU.
People of sound mind understand and embrace science, and common sense.

3. I repeat again, for many of you did not seem to get it the first few times I explained, the Ivy League Colleges were FOUNDED by Christians, whose love for learning, and science, and wisdom, moved them to spread learning, and science, and wisdom.

4. How many colleges in America have "atheism" in their Charters? Please name them and provide the *evidence* you so passionately blather about so abusively and irresponsibly.
 
I may as well play chess with a pigeon as try to explain anything to an atheist. I will expose your misinformation above, point by point:

1. Your claim of "without evidence" does a great disservice to the English language, reason, rationality, and science.
Countless books explain the evidence. Papers and lectures have explained the overwhelming evidence of brilliant design.

2. NOBODY but YOU ATHEISTS make the claim of "only one answer." ONLY YOU.
People of sound mind understand and embrace science, and common sense.

3. I repeat again, for many of you did not seem to get it the first few times I explained, the Ivy League Colleges were FOUNDED by Christians, whose love for learning, and science, and wisdom, moved them to spread learning, and science, and wisdom.

4. How many colleges in America have "atheism" in their Charters? Please name them and provide the *evidence* you so passionately blather about so abusively and irresponsibly.

Then I explore you to find a pigeon to debate with.
 
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