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Ban homework?

americanwoman said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/25/...nd-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news



What do you think, homework or no homework?

I agree the worksheets sometimes given by the school are a little tedious and doesn't really inspire much learning. It is fun to engage your child in learning activities at night together but it's easy to let it start to slip as you balance that with all the different things you have to get done at home. For me, my daughter struggles most with reading so we do try to make time for her every night to read because that's what she really needs help with.

So in my opinion standard homework may not be the best option but to have the parent focus on what the child needs help with. However, that assumes the parent is involved and that's not always the case.
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I've been bouncing the "no homework" thing around in my head for a couple of years. I only give one or two pages of math homework that most kids can do it under 30 minutes. However, the ones who actually NEED to work on it at home don't. The ones who can do it in their sleep are the ones who constantly bring it back. And it's not like that homework is actually helping those kids who can do it in their sleep -- it's too easy for them. It WOULD help those kids who struggle with some math concepts to practice with an adult at home who can help them when needed. It's just that those kids sometimes don't have an adult at home who wants to or cares to.

Also - we have homework parties every quarter for those children who do bring back their homework. It doesn't change anything. The same kids get to go every quarter and the same kids have to sit in a classroom and work on extra stuff because their parents are too damn lazy to care.

So.....I'm strongly leaning toward no homework next year to see how it goes.
 
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_Sal said:
Homework?

Of course homework.

With all the constant classroom interruptions (parents need to get a message to kids, parents picking their kids up for an appointment) that classroom probably receives an average of up to ten interruptions a day. They have to get through massive amounts of material to ensure kids are prepared for the following year.

Then they have to deal with behaviour and often times parents don't support, understand nor care what the teacher is struggling with in class with some students. But your kid will suffer because of it even if it is unknown to you.

Of course there has to be homework.

Kids who are bright and want to succeed are going to do so anyway...that is not just a given, it's a fact and every kid isn't bright or gifted that too is reality...it's the average kid who needs help to encourage that they reach their potential.
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Except that average kid needs a parent or parents who actually give a damn. Many times (in my school anyway) they don't, so homework is pointless and a waste of paper.
 
Josie said:
I've been bouncing the "no homework" thing around in my head for a couple of years. I only give one or two pages of math homework that most kids can do it under 30 minutes. However, the ones who actually NEED to work on it at home don't. The ones who can do it in their sleep are the ones who constantly bring it back. And it's not like that homework is actually helping those kids who can do it in their sleep -- it's too easy for them. It WOULD help those kids who struggle with some math concepts to practice with an adult at home who can help them when needed. It's just that those kids sometimes don't have an adult at home who wants to or cares to.

Also - we have homework parties every quarter for those children who do bring back their homework. It doesn't change anything. The same kids get to go every quarter and the same kids have to sit in a classroom and work on extra stuff because their parents are too damn lazy to care.

So.....I'm strongly leaning toward no homework next year to see how it goes.
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here's my problem with your approach. you are giving homework to students who you know do not need homework at the level it is being assigned, because you acknowledge that they have already mastered the material at that point. why are they not being assigned homework that is challenging to them rather than being the nuisance of busywork. at the least, such high performing students should be exempted from doing the homework which accomplishes nothing more than to further their disdain for having to spend their time doing busywork
 
Josie said:
Except that average kid needs a parent or parents who actually give a damn. Many times (in my school anyway) they don't, so homework is pointless and a waste of paper.
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:shrug: Homework isn't for the parents it's for the kids. I don't believe we should cater to the lower end of academics. To me it is never pointless. Some kids come to school to learn, other kids come to school to be loved. The idea is to try to meet some kind of half way point.

Many kids are just trying to survive, mentally, emotionally, and physically. But that is not the "average".

Homework is a must in most schools and should be for most classrooms.

I understand that in some classrooms the first hour is spent just accessing what happened at home last night. Exceptions and accommodations are made daily but the average kid still needs to be recognized because there is always help and assistance for those kids that fall on both ends of the scale. It's the median that gets ignored.
 
If by 'banning', you mean pass a law? I am totally against that...there are FAR too many laws as it is.

But if you mean school boards officially stating that they frown on homework? I am all for that.

If a teacher cannot teach all the curriculum during class...than that teacher is not doing their job properly imo.

I think school's should be much more scholastically demanding during school hours but allow children complete freedom once school is over.
 
justabubba said:
here's my problem with your approach. you are giving homework to students who you know do not need homework at the level it is being assigned, because you acknowledge that they have already mastered the material at that point. why are they not being assigned homework that is challenging to them rather than being the nuisance of busywork. at the least, such high performing students should be exempted from doing the homework which accomplishes nothing more than to further their disdain for having to spend their time doing busywork
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I know -- that's another thing I've been bouncing around. I want to challenge my higher-level kids and not frustrate my lower-level kids. But many of my lower-level kids don't do their homework anyway because their parents don't make them.
 
_Sal said:
:shrug: Homework isn't for the parents it's for the kids.
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I know it's not. But the kids who need help doing their homework need their parents to be on board. Many aren't.

_Sal said:
I don't believe we should cater to the lower end of academics. To me it is never pointless.

Some kids come to school to learn, other kids come to school to be loved. The idea is to try to meet some kind of half way point.

Many kids are just trying to survive, mentally, emotionally, and physically. But that is not the "average".

Homework is a must in most schools and should be for most classrooms.

I understand that in some classrooms the first hour is spent just accessing what happened at home last night. Exceptions and accommodations are made daily but the average kid still needs to be recognized because there is always help and assistance for those kids that fall on both ends of the scale. It's the median that gets ignored.
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I'm not sold that homework is a must. As I said, the same kids in my class never bring it and those are the kids who need it the most. Also, lots of kids are involved in extracurricular activities throughout the school year including sports and church activities. Maybe academic learning should be at school and the rest of the day should be reserved for activities, family time and just being a kid. :shrug:
 
I do think they could lighten up on the homework. I remember doing homework as a kid but it was never what I would consider my best because all I could think about is getting it done as quick as possible with not a whole lot of thought put into it. Today the amount of homework my grandkids bring home each night is down right ridiculous. You know some kids have extra curricular activities such as sports, band etc. that either have practice or games at least twice a week. A family with three kids and each with their after school activities, fighting to find time together for a family meal in the evening, sometimes as late as 7:00, and then homework, baths/showers and laying out close for the next day plus pack lunches makes for very long days for kids and parents.

Now some teachers would set aside 15 minutes each period where we could get started on the homework and at the same time if we had questions she/he was there to answer them.

But today that 15 minutes seems to be eaten up with teachers trying to bring order to their classrooms.

My daughter started out in education, and while her kids were young worked as a sub and in between sub jobs she worked in the elementary school office. She shared with me some very heart wrenching stories about some of the kids who had really lousy parents. Some went home after school to an empty house with empty cupboards and no one there to fix them dinner.
They came to school that were not bathed, their hair not combed nor their teeth brushed and looked liked they had pulled their clothes out of a dirty clothes hamper. Of course their parents never showed up for parent/teacher conferences. On Fridays the teachers out of their own pockets would stuff the backpacks of these kids with lousy parents with an assortment of fruit, cereal bars, trail mix, etc. because they knew these little ones may not get enough to eat over the weekend. They did this during the last recess while the kids were outside or in the gym. Sometimes it is a crying shame kids can't pick their parents.

Daughter moved on from education and went back to college with four kids and earned a degree in nursing which she absolutely loves. But those stories she told me about some kids each teacher encounters breaks the heart. And unfortunately they are often the same children that struggle in their studies.

I am a big supporter for after school tutoring for those who need it. Because once some of these kids go home there is no support for them.
 
vesper said:
I do think they could lighten up on the homework. I remember doing homework as a kid but it was never what I would consider my best because all I could think about is getting it done as quick as possible with not a whole lot of thought put into it. Today the amount of homework my grandkids bring home each night is down right ridiculous. You know some kids have extra curricular activities such as sports, band etc. that either have practice or games at least twice a week. A family with three kids and each with their after school activities, fighting to find time together for a family meal in the evening, sometimes as late as 7:00, and then homework, baths/showers and laying out close for the next day plus pack lunches makes for very long days for kids and parents.

Now some teachers would set aside 15 minutes each period where we could get started on the homework and at the same time if we had questions she/he was there to answer them.

But today that 15 minutes seems to be eaten up with teachers trying to bring order to their classrooms.

My daughter started out in education, and while her kids were young worked as a sub and in between sub jobs she worked in the elementary school office. She shared with me some very heart wrenching stories about some of the kids who had really lousy parents. Some went home after school to an empty house with empty cupboards and no one there to fix them dinner.
They came to school that were not bathed, their hair not combed nor their teeth brushed and looked liked they had pulled their clothes out of a dirty clothes hamper. Of course their parents never showed up for parent/teacher conferences. On Fridays the teachers out of their own pockets would stuff the backpacks of these kids with lousy parents with an assortment of fruit, cereal bars, trail mix, etc. because they knew these little ones may not get enough to eat over the weekend. They did this during the last recess while the kids were outside or in the gym. Sometimes it is a crying shame kids can't pick their parents.

Daughter moved on from education and went back to college with four kids and earned a degree in nursing which she absolutely loves. But those stories she told me about some kids each teacher encounters breaks the heart. And unfortunately they are often the same children that struggle in their studies.

I am a big supporter for after school tutoring for those who need it. Because once some of these kids go home there is no support for them.
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i believe it is unfortunate that the government cannot issue licenses to authorize only responsible individuals the ability to bear children
those without the means or inclination to provide and care for their children are more inclined to breed

in order to go fishing one must have a license, but any irresponsible idiot can bear a child to become a lifetime ward of the state

apologies for the thread hi-jack; back to the topic
 
Josie said:
I know it's not. But the kids who need help doing their homework need their parents to be on board. Many aren't.



I'm not sold that homework is a must. As I said, the same kids in my class never bring it and those are the kids who need it the most. Also, lots of kids are involved in extracurricular activities throughout the school year including sports and church activities. Maybe academic learning should be at school and the rest of the day should be reserved for activities, family time and just being a kid. :shrug:
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but you have said that you teach kindie so I agree with you, kindie gets no homework...nor grade 1

after that, by grade 3 it is a necessity...it reinforces what has been done during the day as well as teaching them to be self sufficient and achieve small goals by themselves

if a child is incapable of doing the assigned task and there is no parental support then why is homework being sent?

otherwise it must be sent

the west is falling behind...that is reality...I am registering kids for JK that speak four f'ing languages...we have to step it up or fall behind...reality

the academic level must be raised and supported either that or suck it up and fall behind the rest of the world
 
_Sal said:
but you have said that you teach kindie so I agree with you, kindie gets no homework...nor grade 1
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I've never taught kindergarten.

_Sal said:
after that, by grade 3 it is a necessity...it reinforces what has been done during the day as well as teaching them to be self sufficient and achieve small goals by themselves

if a child is incapable of doing the assigned task and there is no parental support then why is homework being sent?
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Because we have decided as a grade level to send home homework. That's exactly what I'm getting at. It's a waste of paper if no one is going to help them at home.

_Sal said:
otherwise it must be sent

the west is falling behind...that is reality...I am registering kids for JK that speak four f'ing languages...we have to step it up or fall behind...reality

the academic level must be raised and supported either that or suck it up and fall behind the rest of the world
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I agree that the academic level should be raised and more should be expected, but that won't change horrible parents. You can't force parents to care or to encourage their children to work harder. You can't force parents to help their children at home or to expect more out of them academically. Schools can only do so much -- it starts at home.
 
Josie said:
I've never taught kindergarten.



Because we have decided as a grade level to send home homework. That's exactly what I'm getting at. It's a waste of paper if no one is going to help them at home.



I agree that the academic level should be raised and more should be expected, but that won't change horrible parents. You can't force parents to care or to encourage their children to work harder. You can't force parents to help their children at home or to expect more out of them academically. Schools can only do so much -- it starts at home.
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well it sounds like you have given up

fair enough

we give homework and will continue to do so and I believe it is a necessity

partially that is due to my age and the way I was raised...my parents never helped with homework, had no idea whether I did it or not

for me, homework is not for parents...it's for the kids who can excel...they should be assisted to do so

I believe the world will see many, many changes in the next 20 years and from what I can perceive there will be a massive shift in world power dynamics
 
_Sal said:
well it sounds like you have given up

fair enough

we give homework and will continue to do so and I believe it is a necessity

partially that is due to my age and the way I was raised...my parents never helped with homework, had no idea whether I did it or not

for me, homework is not for parents...it's for the kids who can excel...they should be assisted to do so

I believe the world will see many, many changes in the next 20 years and from what I can perceive there will be a massive shift in world power dynamics
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No, I haven't "given up". Just because I think it might not be a necessity doesn't mean I have given up. No need to insult someone simply because they disagree with you.

You keep saying "homework isn't for parents" as if I think homework IS for parents. I don't.

I'm not sure what your last statement means.
 
Homework is worse than useless.



Rarely do I meet one single parent who doesn't roll their eyes at the word. It causes conflict, it eats up family time; very commonly the kids are not properly prepared to do the homework, don't understand it and require so much help (from the parent, who's been out of school for decades and learned different methods anyway) that its tempting to just do it yourself and save the aggravation.


Yes, ban it.
 
I always hate when someone uses math class as example of why homework is needed. In order for the homework to even begin to be helpful they have to first understand how to solve the problem. The idea appears to be that the parents know how to solve it or that somehow it is their job to fill in the gaps of the school, but in reality a lot of parents are terrible at math, forgot how to solve the problem in question, never knew how to solve it, or simply don't care enough to help the kid. Pounding in their head something that is wrong is about as helpful as cancer.
 
justabubba said:
i believe it is unfortunate that the government cannot issue licenses to authorize only responsible individuals the ability to bear children
those without the means or inclination to provide and care for their children are more inclined to breed

in order to go fishing one must have a license, but any irresponsible idiot can bear a child to become a lifetime ward of the state

apologies for the thread hi-jack; back to the topic
Click to expand...

No no no!!!! I would never support such a thing. But I would support cutting government handouts so generous enough that it encourages feckless behavior of reproducing before you can afford to provide for your child on your own.

How do you feel about the excessive amount of homework kids get every night? I watch the kids get off the bus and their book bags are full of books often hunched over while walking to carry the load.

Things are much different from when my kids were in school. We purchased our first home in a school district that was rated one of the top ten in the country at that time. Sure paid a lot of money for a little house and a fixer upper at that. But the school district was a top priority and it paid off. And the parent who places an importance on education their children when grown and start their own families do the same. At least that is how it worked here. Now my kids had homework but it was nothing like what my grandkids are having piled on them. Sometimes you wonder what the heck they actually got accomplished in the classroom with the pile of stuff that they have to complete that night. Isn't eight hours enough? Is it necessary to pile on 2 1/2 to 3 more hours of work each night? Quite frankly, if the teacher is worth his/ her pay, the excess homework would not be necessary. Maybe they should shed all the BS and start focusing on the basics and once the basics are taught expand from there. Just a thought....

My youngest grandchild, A, goes to a private school as her brother before her. She first started there in daycare. Before the babe could talk they had taught her sign language to communicate when she was hungry, sleepy, thirsty, etc.. During the pre-school years 2-4, she was taught all her colors, letters, shapes, write her name, and identify sight words by sounding them out and matching them to pictures. Now she is in Kindergarten and can write complete sentences and is reading at a 2nd grade level. She will be starting 1st grade in the public school system this coming school year but no doubt has been well prepared. Her older brother T, my hockey player, went through the same program prior to entering public school. He is about to complete 2nd grade. Today he is currently reading at 4th-5th grade level and has a love for numbers. I found a series of mystery books for Christmas that involved math to solve the mystery. He loved them.

Look not everyone can afford to send their kids to such a school like my son and daughter in law could. My daughter couldn't yet she and her husband when their children started Kindergarten were prepared. And they both have worked hard to make sure all 4 of their kids took their education seriously and as parents were very involved and never missed a parent/teacher conference. It paid off as all are now excelling whether it be college, high school or junior high. And every dang one of them has a great work ethic. All of their children work jobs while attending classes. Even the one in junior high has major responsibilities at home that he gets paid for completing.

Look, when kids have to spend 2+ hours on homework every night something is very wrong.
 
Goshin said:
Homework is worse than useless.



Rarely do I meet one single parent who doesn't roll their eyes at the word. It causes conflict, it eats up family time; very commonly the kids are not properly prepared to do the homework, don't understand it and require so much help (from the parent, who's been out of school for decades and learned different methods anyway) that its tempting to just do it yourself and save the aggravation.


Yes, ban it.
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It does eat up family time and places un-necessary stress on the family unit. Family time is something very important. It is during family time good parents share the best life lessons ever.

I am not against homework in moderation, but dang it if the kid has been in school for 8 hours and the teacher(s) couldn't manage to do their job for that day and had to send a boatload of homework home with them, then something is very wrong.
 
vesper said:
No no no!!!! I would never support such a thing. But I would support cutting government handouts so generous enough that it encourages feckless behavior of reproducing before you can afford to provide for your child on your own.
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and this exemplifies my point. you have no opposition to kids born into family situations where they have no parental support, you would simply curtail government assistance to that family which then deprives the child further
that's one hell of an unrealistic argument

How do you feel about the excessive amount of homework kids get every night? I watch the kids get off the bus and their book bags are full of books often hunched over while walking to carry the load.

Things are much different from when my kids were in school. We purchased our first home in a school district that was rated one of the top ten in the country at that time. Sure paid a lot of money for a little house and a fixer upper at that. But the school district was a top priority and it paid off. And the parent who places an importance on education their children when grown and start their own families do the same. At least that is how it worked here. Now my kids had homework but it was nothing like what my grandkids are having piled on them. Sometimes you wonder what the heck they actually got accomplished in the classroom with the pile of stuff that they have to complete that night. Isn't eight hours enough? Is it necessary to pile on 2 1/2 to 3 more hours of work each night? Quite frankly, if the teacher is worth his/ her pay, the excess homework would not be necessary. Maybe they should shed all the BS and start focusing on the basics and once the basics are taught expand from there. Just a thought....

My youngest grandchild, A, goes to a private school as her brother before her. She first started there in daycare. Before the babe could talk they had taught her sign language to communicate when she was hungry, sleepy, thirsty, etc.. During the pre-school years 2-4, she was taught all her colors, letters, shapes, write her name, and identify sight words by sounding them out and matching them to pictures. Now she is in Kindergarten and can write complete sentences and is reading at a 2nd grade level. She will be starting 1st grade in the public school system this coming school year but no doubt has been well prepared. Her older brother T, my hockey player, went through the same program prior to entering public school. He is about to complete 2nd grade. Today he is currently reading at 4th-5th grade level and has a love for numbers. I found a series of mystery books for Christmas that involved math to solve the mystery. He loved them.

Look not everyone can afford to send their kids to such a school like my son and daughter in law could. My daughter couldn't yet she and her husband when their children started Kindergarten were prepared. And they both have worked hard to make sure all 4 of their kids took their education seriously and as parents were very involved and never missed a parent/teacher conference. It paid off as all are now excelling whether it be college, high school or junior high. And every dang one of them has a great work ethic. All of their children work jobs while attending classes. Even the one in junior high has major responsibilities at home that he gets paid for completing.

Look, when kids have to spend 2+ hours on homework every night something is very wrong.
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you argue against homework while extolling the educational level of your kids and grandkids who had to complete significant amounts of homework
it is as if you presume that homework had no impact on their academic success
 
The problem that I have with homework is not that it exists, but that it exists in such great amounts that many children are spending as much time on it as they spend in class. The other problem is the explanation I'm given when I ask about it from the schools my children have been in. And that answer being "Well it's to teach them the material".

The implication there is that the material is not being taught in the classroom. And I got much confirmation when my children were handed an assignment that they didn't cover in the classroom at all. Basically they were handed an assignment on one unit of the class's study, then tested in class the next day, then were given an assignment on the next unit of study the following night.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Classroom was for testing, homework was for learning. It frequently made me wonder why my children were in school if they're supposed to learn all that crap on their own at home.
 
Hypnotoad said:
The problem that I have with homework is not that it exists, but that it exists in such great amounts that many children are spending as much time on it as they spend in class. The other problem is the explanation I'm given when I ask about it from the schools my children have been in. And that answer being "Well it's to teach them the material".

The implication there is that the material is not being taught in the classroom. And I got much confirmation when my children were handed an assignment that they didn't cover in the classroom at all. Basically they were handed an assignment on one unit of the class's study, then tested in class the next day, then were given an assignment on the next unit of study the following night.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Classroom was for testing, homework was for learning. It frequently made me wonder why my children were in school if they're supposed to learn all that crap on their own at home.
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while i do see and acknowledge your point, on some level there must be satisfaction by the student to recognize that they are self taught to a high degree

that teacher is not teaching; (s)he is only a homework assignor; something easily replaced by a computer. short sighted
 
justabubba said:
while i do see and acknowledge your point, on some level there must be satisfaction by the student to recognize that they are self taught to a high degree

that teacher is not teaching; (s)he is only a homework assignor; something easily replaced by a computer. short sighted
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Oh I'll grant you that. Back in my days in school (when rocks were soft, dirt was clean and dinosaurs roamed the Earth) that's what homework was.

In my time at school, we covered a unit in class. Then homework was assigned to make us to some of our own learning by looking in the parts of the unit we had not yet covered, then the next day we did a review of the homework to help fill in any gaps that we could not fill ourselves, then the next night's homework usually involved reading the next unit to prepare us for the next day in class where we would cover it.

Lather rinse repeat.

That to me was how it's supposed to be done. We were taught the material, were allowed to learn on our own and self-reinforce the lessons, then a review, then the next unit would commence.

This is why I still know stuff that my children have forgotten since all they were taught was how to take the @#$%ing tests.
 
Education has become MUCH more about testing instead of teaching. It's ridiculous how much we have to test. Just the other day my kids had to take a reading, science and math test online (AGAIN) and several of them barely even tried. So the data we're getting from the test isn't valid at all -- complete waste of time.
 
Josie said:
Education has become MUCH more about testing instead of teaching. It's ridiculous how much we have to test. Just the other day my kids had to take a reading, science and math test online (AGAIN) and several of them barely even tried. So the data we're getting from the test isn't valid at all -- complete waste of time.
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Which is something I've been complaining about for years. When I was in school, we passed the standardized tests because we were taught the material. We learned how to do the formulas, we learned and absorbed the knowledge of what happened where and when in history. We had the tools that allowed us to solve the problems.

Now they're just taught the tests and it's a big hindrance when they go to college since the colleges usually have to teach remedial classes on the things that they should have learned in High School...but didn't.
 
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