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Abolishing the Department of "Education" and eliminating the cabinet level secretary.

Re: Abolishing the Department of "Education" and eliminating the cabinet level secret

I don't know.

Did students change in any significant way from 1960?
 
Re: Abolishing the Department of "Education" and eliminating the cabinet level secret

Did students change in any significant way from 1960?

I would consider my daughters and son as normal students along with all of my grand kids. I don't think they as students differ, at least in a major way from when I went to school, 1950's and early 60's to today. Some have the urge to learn and learn as much as they can while others, my son and a couple of grandsons come to mind where they skated playing sports and didn't give the classroom much thought. My son came around later in life, got a GED and now has some college. One of my grandsons who also didn't give a care about school, went into the military and continued his education. The other grandson who didn't pay much attention got wise in his Junior and Senior years and is now in college. A few of the girls always studied hard and a couple always were honor students. Although one Grand daughter dropped out and became a baby factory. I suppose that covers time from me to the latest. No, no changes in students I can discern.

Some have the will to learn, others don't, that hasn't changed. I was always sort of slack in school, always did the work, but school was easy for the most part. But I am shocked to find out some of the things I learned back in school are now only being taught in college. That I think is where the change takes place.
 
Re: Abolishing the Department of "Education" and eliminating the cabinet level secret

In 1978, President Jimmy Carter formed the Department of Education and established a corresponding Cabinet Level secretary as payback to the teachers' unions (NEA) for their 1976 endorsement. The end result has been the quality of education since then has done nothing but circle the toilet bowl. No more teaching the basics, (Three Rs) Now everything is an educational flavor of the decade such as Outcome-Based Education (remember that one?), NCLB (Thank you Teddy Kennedy for that one) and now Common Core. Folks, education MUST be restored to local control, period.

if you can figure out what are good and bad ways to go about educating why would local control be desirable just becase its local?
 
Re: Abolishing the Department of "Education" and eliminating the cabinet level secret


so you just want local control to push your personal views on more people not to improve education
 
Re: Abolishing the Department of "Education" and eliminating the cabinet level secret

The US spends way more per capita than any other developed country, yet gets mediocre results. Hmm, I wonder what's unique about the US that would hold back education results. Hmm.

that may be a good line of thinking what are more successful country's doing?
 
Re: Abolishing the Department of "Education" and eliminating the cabinet level secret

that may be a good line of thinking what are more successful country's doing?

They're not importing the 3rd world in massive numbers.
 
Re: Abolishing the Department of "Education" and eliminating the cabinet level secret

I would consider my daughters and son as normal students along with all of my grand kids. I don't think they as students differ, at least in a major way from when I went to school, 1950's and early 60's to today. Some have the urge to learn and learn as much as they can while others, my son and a couple of grandsons come to mind where they skated playing sports and didn't give the classroom much thought. My son came around later in life, got a GED and now has some college. One of my grandsons who also didn't give a care about school, went into the military and continued his education. The other grandson who didn't pay much attention got wise in his Junior and Senior years and is now in college. A few of the girls always studied hard and a couple always were honor students. Although one Grand daughter dropped out and became a baby factory. I suppose that covers time from me to the latest. No, no changes in students I can discern.

Some have the will to learn, others don't, that hasn't changed. I was always sort of slack in school, always did the work, but school was easy for the most part. But I am shocked to find out some of the things I learned back in school are now only being taught in college. That I think is where the change takes place.

It's changed significantly even from 2000.

60_fig1.jpg


And here is the transition from 1900 to today for the overall population, but as you can see from the preceding graph it's even more acute among the youth.

rand01.gif
 
Re: Abolishing the Department of "Education" and eliminating the cabinet level secret

Yeah, I can't think of ANYWAY for us to fall further behind in education then let 50 states make up 50 different set of rules on what to teach. Mississippi which is already ranked 50th in well, everything, will do great with something like this. LOL... They'll dumb down their schools even more, to the point where ANYONE graduating from any Mississippi school will have absolutely no chance of getting into a college in any other state, let alone getting a job in any other state.

What we'll save on dumping the Dept. of Ed., we'll spend taking care of generations of people who graduated in states believing the world was created in 6 days.

And yes I believe in God, but no I don't believe the earth was created in 6 days.

Can you support your premise that the state of Mississippi's education results have increased since the Dept of Education was created? Can you demonstrate a causal link if such an increase occurred?
 
Re: Abolishing the Department of "Education" and eliminating the cabinet level secret

The US spends way more per capita than any other developed country, yet gets mediocre results. Hmm, I wonder what's unique about the US that would hold back education results. Hmm.

Teachers' unions?
 
Re: Abolishing the Department of "Education" and eliminating the cabinet level secret

Nope, with federal funds comes federal control. What sense does it make to use federal taxation just to give that money away?

Exactly. If the work is of the fedgov is just to collect and distribute block grants, get the fedgov out of it and save money. Let the states tax their own populations for brainwashing the kids there. The people in the fedgov collecting and distributing are dead weight. ...or do poor states need to leech the rest for their own nonsense?

Step 1 : DeVos should dissolve her department and quit.
 
Re: Abolishing the Department of "Education" and eliminating the cabinet level secret

It's changed significantly even from 2000.

60_fig1.jpg


And here is the transition from 1900 to today for the overall population, but as you can see from the preceding graph it's even more acute among the youth.

rand01.gif

That's true. But in a way we get back to single moms who aren't teaching kids. I don't know the percentages, but black single moms are way up there.
 
Re: Abolishing the Department of "Education" and eliminating the cabinet level secret

That's true. But in a way we get back to single moms who aren't teaching kids. I don't know the percentages, but black single moms are way up there.

That's killer. Single motherhood is associated with just about every negative outcome that you can think of.
 
Re: Abolishing the Department of "Education" and eliminating the cabinet level secret

In 1978, President Jimmy Carter formed the Department of Education and established a corresponding Cabinet Level secretary as payback to the teachers' unions (NEA) for their 1976 endorsement. The end result has been the quality of education since then has done nothing but circle the toilet bowl. No more teaching the basics, (Three Rs) Now everything is an educational flavor of the decade such as Outcome-Based Education (remember that one?), NCLB (Thank you Teddy Kennedy for that one) and now Common Core. Folks, education MUST be restored to local control, period.

Not true

Here's the true story of The Dept. of Education:


https://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/fed/role.html

The original Department of Education was created in 1867 to collect information on schools and teaching that would help the States establish effective school systems. While the agency's name and location within the Executive Branch have changed over the past 130 years, this early emphasis on getting information on what works in education to teachers and education policymakers continues down to the present day.

The passage of the Second Morrill Act in 1890 gave the then-named Office of Education responsibility for administering support for the original system of land-grant colleges and universities. Vocational education became the next major area of Federal aid to schools, with the 1917 Smith-Hughes Act and the 1946 George-Barden Act focusing on agricultural, industrial, and home economics training for high school students.

World War II led to a significant expansion of Federal support for education. The Lanham Act in 1941 and the Impact Aid laws of 1950 eased the burden on communities affected by the presence of military and other Federal installations by making payments to school districts. And in 1944, the "GI Bill" authorized postsecondary education assistance that would ultimately send nearly 8 million World War II veterans to college.

The Cold War stimulated the first example of comprehensive Federal education legislation, when in 1958 Congress passed the National Defense Education Act (NDEA) in response to the Soviet launch of Sputnik. To help ensure that highly trained individuals would be available to help America compete with the Soviet Union in scientific and technical fields, the NDEA included support for loans to college students, the improvement of science, mathematics, and foreign language instruction in elementary and secondary schools, graduate fellowships, foreign language and area studies, and vocational-technical training.

The anti-poverty and civil rights laws of the 1960s and 1970s brought about a dramatic emergence of the Department's equal access mission. The passage of laws such as Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972, and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 which prohibited discrimination based on race, sex, and disability, respectively made civil rights enforcement a fundamental and long-lasting focus of the Department of Education. In 1965, the Elementary and Secondary Education Act launched a comprehensive set of programs, including the Title I program of Federal aid to disadvantaged children to address the problems of poor urban and rural areas. And in that same year, the Higher Education Act authorized assistance for postsecondary education, including financial aid programs for needy college students.

In 1980, Congress established the Department of Education as a Cabinet level agency. Today, ED operates programs that touch on every area and level of education. The Department's elementary and secondary programs annually serve nearly 18,200 school districts and over 50 million students attending roughly 98,000 public schools and 32,000 private schools. Department programs also provide grant, loan, and work-study assistance to more than 12 million postsecondary students.
 
Re: Abolishing the Department of "Education" and eliminating the cabinet level secret

Exactly. If the work is of the fedgov is just to collect and distribute block grants, get the fedgov out of it and save money. Let the states tax their own populations for brainwashing the kids there. The people in the fedgov collecting and distributing are dead weight. ...or do poor states need to leech the rest for their own nonsense?

Step 1 : DeVos should dissolve her department and quit.

The key difference (political advantage?) for the use of federal funding is that taxes need not be raised (now) to cover the spending - simply raise the debt "ceiling" and let future generations (of congress critters) figure out how to pay off the resulting debt.
 
Re: Abolishing the Department of "Education" and eliminating the cabinet level secret

Get rid of the damned Dept. of Education. And the sooner, the better.
 
Re: Abolishing the Department of "Education" and eliminating the cabinet level secret

The key difference (political advantage?) for the use of federal funding is that taxes need not be raised (now) to cover the spending - simply raise the debt "ceiling" and let future generations (of congress critters) figure out how to pay off the resulting debt.

True. The feds can play "kick the can down the road" much easier than the states can.

The main advantage I can see with having a federal level department to cover education is to ensure uniform standards. Of course, many people don't want the feds dictating standards, probably because they know that getting control of a state legislature is a lot easier.
 
Re: Abolishing the Department of "Education" and eliminating the cabinet level secret

They're not importing the 3rd world in massive numbers.

so they otherwise teach kids the same way with comparable money spent and class room size and types of school worck

wiht or without central government oversight or standards
 
Re: Abolishing the Department of "Education" and eliminating the cabinet level secret

It might be worth it just to get rid of her at this point
 
Re: Abolishing the Department of "Education" and eliminating the cabinet level secret

In 1978, President Jimmy Carter formed the Department of Education and established a corresponding Cabinet Level secretary as payback to the teachers' unions (NEA) for their 1976 endorsement. The end result has been the quality of education since then has done nothing but circle the toilet bowl. No more teaching the basics, (Three Rs) Now everything is an educational flavor of the decade such as Outcome-Based Education (remember that one?), NCLB (Thank you Teddy Kennedy for that one) and now Common Core. Folks, education MUST be restored to local control, period.

That's your story. Here are some other ones:

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2016/06/everything-in-american-education-is-broken/488189/

https://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/fed/role.html

https://www.cpjustice.org/public/page/content/cie_faq_levels_of_government

Debate Over Federal Role in Public School Policy - The New York Times

Bottom line is: if you want federal educational dollars, you have to abide by federal rules. You don't have to take the funding. You are free to fund locally and make all your own decisions. The federal government offers funding with strings attached, as they should. They require accountability for how their funds are used. This is a good thing. The federal government cannot force local schools to abide by any rules as long as they do not accept funding. Most decisions regarding how to run schools are still made locally, even those that receive federal funding.
 
Re: Abolishing the Department of "Education" and eliminating the cabinet level secret

Get rid of the damned Dept. of Education. And the sooner, the better.


You're a Progressive. From what you propose, we can move on to getting rid of education altogether.
 
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