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Abortion debate only without emotional rants

Patriotic Voter

Patriotic Voter

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The capital letters are not an accident. Thread derailment is always started by stupid emotional rants, not the natural flow of online conversations, in my experience on the Abortion Forum. So here is my second attempt to have a civil debate. No misogynistic comments are allowed here!

To begin: Regardless of how a girl or woman gets pregnant, the result is the same: an unwanted pregnancy. Because biology is the same for all normal pregnancies, only what happens after conception matters when choosing to get abortion for any reason is a questionable right. This is also true if her pregnancy is not normal after a certain gestational age. Let's ignore what caused the pregnancy and focus on what happens during it, then after an unborn human is either aborted or born.
 
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Blue Donkey said:
The capital letters are not an accident. Thread derailment is always started by stupid emotional rants, not the natural flow of online conversations, in my experience on the Abortion Forum. So here is my second attempt to have a civil debate. No misogynistic comments are allowed here!

To begin: Regardless of how a girl or woman gets pregnant, the result is the same: an unwanted pregnancy. Because biology is the same for all normal pregnancies, only what happens after conception matters when choosing to get abortion for any reason is a questionable right. This is also true if her pregnancy is not normal after a certain gestational age. Let's ignore what caused the pregnancy and focus on what happens during it, then after an unborn human is either aborted or born.
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As long as the woman ha a post-conception opt out of parenthood a man should have the same right.

As it stands now it is hypocritical and sexist that a man does not have the same right.
 
Bodhisattva said:
As long as the woman ha a post-conception opt out of parenthood a man should have the same right.

As it stands now it is hypocritical and sexist that a man does not have the same right.
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Does that mean a man has a right to abort the woman?
 
Bodhisattva said:
As long as the woman ha a post-conception opt out of parenthood a man should have the same right.

As it stands now it is hypocritical and sexist that a man does not have the same right.
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Your beef is with your God, not women. When you get pregnant, you can do what you like too. See, that's equality.
 
D_NATURED said:
Your beef is with your God, not women. When you get pregnant, you can do what you like too. See, that's equality.
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Wrong. Since it is man made laws that are the issue then I am correct. Sorry... :shrug:
 
Bodhisattva said:
As long as the woman ha a post-conception opt out of parenthood a man should have the same right.

As it stands now it is hypocritical and sexist that a man does not have the same right.
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:lamo. Oh, now we're worried about equal rights. But Lily Ledbetter was just a whiny little girl who couldn't play nice with the big boys. Oh, sweetie your sexist ego is hanging out and it's kinda embarrassing for everyone :3oops:
 
Bodhisattva said:
Wrong. Since it is man made laws that are the issue then I am correct. Sorry... :shrug:
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Actually, men DO have a post-conception opt out of parenthood. It's called a child support check. You don't have to love the child or be there when they graduate or marry. All you have to do is pay the "I'm too lazy or dumb to use a condom" tax. You're welcome.
 
weaver2 said:
:lamo. Oh, now we're worried about equal rights. But Lily Ledbetter was just a whiny little girl who couldn't play nice with the big boys. Oh, sweetie your sexist ego is hanging out and it's kinda embarrassing for everyone :3oops:
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I support equality... apparently you do not and hide your hypocrisy with accusations of sexism... boring.
 
D_NATURED said:
Actually, men DO have a post-conception opt out of parenthood. It's called a child support check. You don't have to love the child or be there when they graduate or marry. All you have to do is pay the "I'm too lazy or dumb to use a condom" tax. You're welcome.
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Forcing a man to pay for a woman's decision is not allowing him to opt out of parenthood is forcing him into indentured servitude...
 
Good point. If a man has no decision in whether or not a woman has an abortion, then why should he be held accountable for her decisions? He has no say if he wants to be a father and the woman chooses abortion, so why should he be held accountable if the roles were reversed.
 
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Bodhisattva said:
Forcing a man to pay for a woman's decision is not allowing him to opt out of parenthood is forcing him into indentured servitude...
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Well when you put it that way, he's paying for HIS decision. Both decided to have sex...correct? And both know there is a risk of pregnancy with sex...correct? So then both should be held accountable for the consequences of their decisions to have sex...correct?

The woman is held accountable...if a woman gets pregnant, she cannot escape consequences. She has only 4 outcomes:

--have a kid
--have a miscarriage
--have an abortion
--die during pregnancy/childbirth

And she can even die during the first 3, altho less likely.

Men escape consequences in 3 of the 4 outcomes. That doesnt sound equal at all, you are right. Women face consequences of a pregnancy 100% of the time. Men...only 25%.

Of course, if both wish to avoid consequences, they know how. Dont have sex with that person. It's a choice...are you claiming that men are incapable of making that choice *in their own best interests*? I believe women are capable of doing so...and that men are too.

But from prior conversations, you believe that men should still be entitled to sex without consequences, just as they have been all thru history. Women never have been. Today, with DNA testing, etc, it's NOW equal...neither men or women are entitled to sex without consequences.

That's what you believe, correct? That men should be entitled to sex without consequences? Yes or no?


This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa
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Bodhisattva said:
Forcing a man to pay for a woman's decision is not allowing him to opt out of parenthood is forcing him into indentured servitude...
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No, men can decide to use condoms. If they don't, they are throwing caution to the wind and deserve whatever happens.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Forcing a man to pay for a woman's decision is not allowing him to opt out of parenthood is forcing him into indentured servitude...
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I do not think that a woman who is in a stable relationship with a man would go behind his back to have an abortion in secret despite the two having planned for- and tried to have children for years. It is not how it works.

Edit: Nevermind, I misread your post and might address the actual point later.
 
D_NATURED said:
No, men can decide to use condoms. If they don't, they are throwing caution to the wind and deserve whatever happens.
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Men can also decide to only have sex with women using contraception.

Why do people think if the woman uses contraception and the man does not, the pregnancy is only her fault?
 
Blue Donkey said:
Men can also decide to only have sex with women using contraception.

Why do people think if the woman uses contraception and the man does not, the pregnancy is only her fault?
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Because they're dumb. A condom is the one thing a man can do, other than vasectomy (what I did), to prevent pregnancy. Even if you trust the woman who says she's on the pill or something, if you really want to prevent pregnancy, keeping your swimmers out of the pool is a great point of personal responsibility...something conservatives claim to value. It's so simple yet I'm not at all shocked that some guys don't get it.

What they're really arguing for is special conditions for men. Straight up, if you ejaculate inside a woman, you're trying to get pregnant. Any other claim is absurd.
 
D_NATURED said:
Because they're dumb. A condom is the one thing a man can do, other than vasectomy (what I did), to prevent pregnancy. Even if you trust the woman who says she's on the pill or something, if you really want to prevent pregnancy, keeping your swimmers out of the pool is a great point of personal responsibility...something conservatives claim to value. It's so simple yet I'm not at all shocked that some guys don't get it.

What they're really arguing for is special conditions for men. Straight up, if you ejaculate inside a woman, you're trying to get pregnant. Any other claim is absurd.
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You know for a fact I specifically started this thread to prevent ALL nasty and misogynistic comments. So you have no reason to say any of that crap.
 
Blue Donkey said:
Men can also decide to only have sex with women using contraception.

Why do people think if the woman uses contraception and the man does not, the pregnancy is only her fault?
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By Pro-Life-standards, eggs and sperm are lives too.
 
Dacke said:
By Pro-Life-standards, eggs and sperm are lives too.
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No they aren't. Everyone knows ova and sperm are only cells in the body, not separate individuals.

There is no reason to make any misogynistic comments, period.
 
Blue Donkey said:
No they aren't. Everyone knows ova and sperm are only cells in the body, not separate individuals.
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Well, yes. But, not according to Pro Lifers.

There is no reason to make any misogynistic comments, period.
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Misogyny? Wtf? Says the person who throws out a "period" out of the blue, eh? :D
 
Blue Donkey said:
To begin: Regardless of how a girl or woman gets pregnant, the result is the same: an unwanted pregnancy.
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If the girl/woman wants an abortion, then yes, the pregnancy is unwanted. And it is her right to have the abortion if she doesn't want to stay pregnant and give birth. It doesn't matter whether or not prolifers approve of that choice.
 
Lursa said:
Well when you put it that way, he's paying for HIS decision. Both decided to have sex...correct? And both know there is a risk of pregnancy with sex...correct? So then both should be held accountable for the consequences of their decisions to have sex...correct? The woman is held accountable...if a woman gets pregnant, she cannot escape consequences. She has only 4 outcomes:

--have a kid
--have a miscarriage
--have an abortion
--die during pregnancy/childbirth

And she can even die during the first 3, altho less likely.
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Exactly. Which is why it makes sense that only the woman who is pregnant decides for herself whether or not she will continue the pregnancy or have an abortion to end it. She is the one who will have to bear all the health risks and potentially life-threatening complications of pregnancy and birth, so only she has the right to make that choice.
 
D_NATURED said:
Straight up, if you ejaculate inside a woman, you're trying to get pregnant. Any other claim is absurd.
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I'm sure you meant "you're trying to get her pregnant," right? :) All kidding aside, I agree, if no condom is used during intercourse, the odds of pregnancy go up, not down.
 
Dacke said:
By Pro-Life-standards, eggs and sperm are lives too.
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Prolifers can believe whatever they want. That doesn't convince me that their beliefs, including the above, are facts.
 
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