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What do you consider an extreme pro-choice position?

Blue Donkey said:
I never said I think that. Just extreme, not the most extreme, is when a baby can live outside the mom's body without any life support technology in NICU rooms, including blood transfusions, feeding tubes, ventilators, and dialysis.
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Given that we have babies that are full term that need these things, I am not sure what your line is.
 
maquiscat said:
Given that we have babies that are full term that need these things, I am not sure what your line is.
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I draw the line at viability, which is when all vital bodily systems are functioning normally. Until proven otherwise, my assumptions will always be abortions never happen after contractions start when a healthy mom just did not want a healthy baby.
 
Blue Donkey said:
I never said I think that.
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Well, you did...

Blue Donkey said:
The word abortion has one very specific meaning: killing an UNBORN offspring. So the most extreme position possible is killing a fetus while his/her head is in the birth canal.
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Josie said:
Wouldn’t it be extreme to kill a third trimester healthy fetus no matter where his/her head is?
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Blue Donkey said:
Definitely not. The most extreme position is up to birth.

I would be interested in seeing data that prove this ever happens when both the fetus and mother are completely healthy.
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I'm glad you agree now that killing a healthy viable fetus would be unnecessary and extreme.

Just extreme, not the most extreme, is when a baby can live outside the mom's body without any life support technology in NICU rooms, including blood transfusions, feeding tubes, ventilators, and dialysis.
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We're just talking about plain ole "extreme" here.

When a baby is born too early and they need those NICU technologies to keep them alive, it wouldn't have been extreme to kill them before they were born? I'm just trying to make sense of your opinion here. Please explain.
 
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Blue Donkey said:
I draw the line at viability, which is when all vital bodily systems are functioning normally.
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Viability doesn't mean they won't need those NICU technologies, though.....
 
TypicalRussian said:
i would think just the notion of being ok with killing babies is radical in its own right...

i mean in just a century(1900-2000) we have gone from every state to not allowing abortion to every one forced to have abortion clinics, what the hell happened!!!!
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The law happened. Get over it.
 
Blue Donkey said:
Abortion was legal long before 1973. Learn American history.

June 19, 1865 was not the date slavery was legally outlawed. It was the date someone declared in southeast Texas slavery finally ended. So you are wrong about that too.
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in few states it was legal and it was legal only in case of womens health concerns

so when was slaverly outlawed?
 
maquiscat said:
nope. You won't find that anywhere. RvW only makes abortion legal. Nothing requires that anyone open a clinic. If a state makes regulations that are too strict to open an abortion clinic, then the state may be in violation of the law. However, if no one bothers to try to open a clinic, the state is not responsible for that.
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hmmm thx for letting me know
 
TypicalRussian said:
zefs are babies
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Incorrect. Baby are the stages after birth, including newborn and infant. Zygote, blastocyst, embryo and fetus are the stages before birth. All stages through elderly are covered by offspring.

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maquiscat said:
Incorrect. Baby are the stages after birth, including newborn and infant. Zygote, blastocyst, embryo and fetus are the stages before birth. All stages through elderly are covered by offspring.

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not true
 
TypicalRussian said:
and a termination of a babies life...
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Not necessarily. As noted before a ZEF can die naturally within the womb. If the body does not perform a natural abortion, commonly called a miscarriage, then a medical or surgical abortion may be needed to expel the already dead tissue.

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TypicalRussian said:
in few states it was legal and it was legal only in case of womens health concerns

so when was slaverly outlawed?
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Incorrect. I shared the history in one of the previous threads. Abortion was a thriving business in the US prior to the late 1800's. Around 1860 is when the bulk of the states made abortion illegal. Prior to that, it was not illegal.

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TypicalRussian said:
not true
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Show us such. Colloquial use of language where people call ZEFs babies does not make them factually so, just like the colloquial use of word in calling pets one's babies, does not make them factually babies.

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maquiscat said:
Incorrect. I shared the history in one of the previous threads. Abortion was a thriving business in the US prior to the late 1800's. Around 1860 is when the bulk of the states made abortion illegal. Prior to that, it was not illegal.

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i was discussing in around 1900
 
maquiscat said:
Not necessarily. As noted before a ZEF can die naturally within the womb. If the body does not perform a natural abortion, commonly called a miscarriage, then a medical or surgical abortion may be needed to expel the already dead tissue.

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a miscarriage is not a direct killing
 
TypicalRussian said:
i was discussing in around 1900
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Maybe so, but by ignoring that abortion was once legal prior to becoming illegal and then legal again, you set up a false narrative.

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TypicalRussian said:
Life Begins at Fertilization with the Embryo's Conception
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The beginning of life is not what is disputed. Can't think of a single person on these forums who has even claimed otherwise. The issue is first about bodily autonomy, and then also about sentience. Aborting a ZEF prior to brain development would mean aborting an organism that has life but not sentience.

But that is before we look at the fact that you made a strawman argument, since the initial argument I gave was that prior to birth the offspring is not a baby, save colloquially. No argument was given about life

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TypicalRussian said:
a miscarriage is not a direct killing
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A miscarriage is still an abortion. Furthermore, a medical or surgical abortion is performed when the ZEF dies in womb but isn't expelled by the body naturally. Medical or surgical abortions are not limited to the termination of the ZEF by the doctor prior to the abortion

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