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Abortion.

OceanBlues1 said:
Oh, let me see, "birth control is immoral and against God's plan," for one. Which I think is nonsense, since using birth control prevents most unwanted pregnancies and by extension, abortions. Yet some religious pro-lifers would love to see all forms of BC outlawed as well as abortion.
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You are talking about Catholics, who also think IVF and homosexual couple adoptions are immoral (more nonsense).
 
OceanBlues1 said:
Anti-contraception pro-lifers would, I have no doubt, say yes, married couples that either don't want or can't afford kids should remain abstinent. You know, because sex is "only for procreation."
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Then there are people who think the purpose of getting married is to have sex with your partner whether you want to have kids or not, so if you don't want kids, you need to stay single.
 
OceanBlues1 said:
Agreed. And from what I've seen posted here, it's primarily Republicans who make this absurd claim.
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It is always Republicans. There are people who chose other, independent, moderate, or centrist as their lean but as far as I can tell seem to be conservative about everything.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Whereas your position treats it literally like garbage to be thrown out.



Again you show how little you can comprehend. I clearly stated that it is not my position... it is their position. :lol:


But you can not follow a basic conservation... as usual.



It means that they are accepting that possibility and since they are doing that they are ready and willing...



That is their argument and yes, it makes sense.



Not really...
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What you stated as being their position simply isn't their position, as their actions clearly demonstrate.

Sorry you aren't in a place where you can accept that emotionally.

Have you considered trying out reality? It's scary, but it's actually worth it.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I deal with people on the spectrum daily... generally they are more focused on the point than not. Whatever she has is unusual, if there is an "excuse" for it. People I know that are on the spectrum can not deviate from the point, most of the time. They are not creating tangents or changing the argument of the person whom they are talking to.




I was giving their arguments... and yes, they are saying that every time you have sex you are saying that you are ready and willing to be a parent.
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No, that's not what they're saying. What a delightfully stupid assertion.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
No, that's not what they're saying. What a delightfully stupid assertion.
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I have clearly shown your posts to be some of the most stupid in the history of Debate politics... time and time again.

:lol:
 
trixare4kids said:
In most cases an act of irresponsibility led to a pregnancy.
The act of abotioon doesn't erase the above irresponsibility.
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But it does keep someone from making more irresponsible decisions connected to that first one.

If you choose to drive home drunk, whether for 1 mile or 50 miles, that is an irresponsible decision. However if your house is 70 miles away and you, in a moment of clarity, choose to pull over recognizing you shouldn't be driving, you are making a responsible decision connected to, to try to lessen the impact of the first irresponsible decision. Making the first irresponsible decision doesn't mean you must continue with that decision regardless of the consequences.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
 
trixare4kids said:
You can sugar coat it but becoming pregnant and knowing you shouldn't is an act of irresponsibility.
As to your second question, her sex partner bears equal responsibility for an unwanted pregnancy... but there again, both know going in he doesn't bear the ultimate responsibility of deciding to go forth or with the decision to end the pregnancy. It's her body, her decision, remember? Her ultimate responsibility to terminate the life growing inside her or going forth with her pregnancy.
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Okay. Going out and drinking to the point where you can't drive home without putting yourself and others in danger and having to work the next day is irresponsible. However, does that mean you should keep making irresponsible decisions like driving home to make sure you can make it to work on time? What about going to work in the morning with a hangover? More or less responsible than staying home?

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Bodhisattva said:
You are right... I misread that. No idea why.



I think it is fine to have an abortion... I was addressing that those that oppose it argue personal responsibility.



All of this backs up their argument about personal responsibility. If one was acting according to that they would not get pregnant in the first place and if they did then they would not abort their irresponsibility.
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Wrong. Sometimes responsibility is to those who are already born, including the woman and/or other children she may already have rather than a pregnancy that came from an irresponsible decision. For some women, the responsible thing to do in relation to that irresponsible decision that got her pregnant is to have an abortion.

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2distracted said:
I've been celibate a long time. At first my body didn't seem to appreciate celibacy but today, I couldn't care less about ever being involved w someone that way. And since I'm more into God...spend time in the Real Presence....etc, well, maybe my thought that most ppl should be celibate most of the time is God's thought also...just a thought
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Okay. The thing is, just because you have chosen to be celibate doesn't mean everyone else has to do the same. Nor should anyone be forced to. Celibacy, like having children, should always be a choice, not an obligation or requirement.
 
Lursa said:
I know, they treat a baby like punishment! They also always say she should take the consequences of her actions. So kids are punishment, a 'consequence.' :roll:
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Absolutely true. But I think they'll just deny they're punishing women by forcing them to stay pregnant and give birth against their will by banning abortion.
 
Lursa said:
So then you believe in laws that force women to remain pregnant against their will, punishing them with pain and suffering, perhaps death? And then a child they can't afford or don't want? That is punishment.
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Yep, it sure is. And that's what most, if not all, prolifers want to see happen, women forced to stay pregnant, even if they don't want to.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I have clearly shown your posts to be some of the most stupid in the history of Debate politics... time and time again.

:lol:
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Fun that you're so triggered by having your dishonesty pointed out that you're compelled to lie.

Nothing new there.
 
trixare4kids said:
In most cases an act of irresponsibility led to a pregnancy.
The act of abotioon doesn't erase the above irresponsibility.
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So, according to your ideology bringing an unplanned and unwanted child into the world does cancel out the first irresponsibility? How horrible, making a child bear the responsibility of carrying out your morality for the rest of its life while you sit back self-satisfied that you have acted responsibly.

And when the child is born you will tell that woman and her family, "It's your responsibility, not mine. I didn't get pregnant, you did. My only responsibility was making sure you gave birth to an unplanned, unwanted child. I'm not interested in any excuses. Take care of your child"

And you call that moral????
 
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weaver2 said:
So, according to your ideology bringing an unplanned and unwanted child into the world does cancel out the first irresponsibility? How horrible, making a child bear the responsibility of carrying out your morality for the rest of its life while you sit back self-satisfied that your moral responsibility is done with the birth of that child.

You wanted that child born. It's here. Now what? You are going to tell that woman and her family, "It's your responsibility, not mine. I didn't get pregnant, you did. My only responsibility was making sure you gave birth to an unplanned, unwanted child. I'm not interested in any excuses. Take care of your child"

And you call that moral????
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Lovely strawman. Where did you come up with the idea that I said any of the above?

Do the world a favor and learn to read.
 
roguenuke said:
But it does keep someone from making more irresponsible decisions connected to that first one.

If you choose to drive home drunk, whether for 1 mile or 50 miles, that is an irresponsible decision. However if your house is 70 miles away and you, in a moment of clarity, choose to pull over recognizing you shouldn't be driving, you are making a responsible decision connected to, to try to lessen the impact of the first irresponsible decision. Making the first irresponsible decision doesn't mean you must continue with that decision regardless of the consequences.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
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Having an irresponsible pregnancy isn't magically erased because the woman chooses abortion.
I see what you are saying and I don't disagree because the ultimate choice to end or go forth is hers, but what I guess I am trying to say is that she still is irresponsible for having gotten pregnant when she KNEW she shouldn't.
 
roguenuke said:
Okay. Going out and drinking to the point where you can't drive home without putting yourself and others in danger and having to work the next day is irresponsible. However, does that mean you should keep making irresponsible decisions like driving home to make sure you can make it to work on time? What about going to work in the morning with a hangover? More or less responsible than staying home?

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
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Nothing left for me to add to my above statement. I stand by it, and wasn't arguing anything you wrote.
 
OceanBlues1 said:
"Moral beliefs," like "women have the right to make their own sexual/reproductive choices, including abortion, without interference from state or church?" What objections do you have to women having these rights over their own bodies?
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Strawman. I never argued against any of the above.
 
trixare4kids said:
Having an irresponsible pregnancy isn't magically erased because the woman chooses abortion.
I see what you are saying and I don't disagree because the ultimate choice to end or go forth is hers, but what I guess I am trying to say is that she still is irresponsible for having gotten pregnant when she KNEW she shouldn't.
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So, how long do we punish people for making mistakes? Forever? Because demanding that women carry every pregnancy to term is punishing a child and it's family for the rest of their lives.

Why is the woman irresponsible. 50 % of women with unplanned pregnancies were using birth control Have you seen the statistics on contraceptive failure.


The most common contraceptive methods currently used_____________________Failure rate of contraceptive method
18.6% of women use female sterilization as a contraceptive method ____________ .01%
12.6% use oral contraceptive pill _________________________________________ 8%
10.3 % use long-acting reversible contraceptives (two types)
Hormonal implants _________________________________________________ 6%
IUD __________________________________________________ ___________ .03%
8.7% of women rely on male condom use __________________________________ 18%
Unknown % use the rhythm and withdrawal method _________________________ 25%

The contraceptives most likely to fail are controlled by men or as in the rhythm method the active consent of men.
 
weaver2 said:
So, how long do we punish people for making mistakes? Forever? Because demanding that women carry every pregnancy to term is punishing a child and it's family for the rest of their lives.

Why is the woman irresponsible. 50 % of women with unplanned pregnancies were using birth control Have you seen the statistics on contraceptive failure.


The most common contraceptive methods currently used_____________________Failure rate of contraceptive method
18.6% of women use female sterilization as a contraceptive method ____________ .01%
12.6% use oral contraceptive pill _________________________________________ 8%
10.3 % use long-acting reversible contraceptives (two types)
Hormonal implants _________________________________________________ 6%
IUD __________________________________________________ ___________ .03%
8.7% of women rely on male condom use __________________________________ 18%
Unknown % use the rhythm and withdrawal method _________________________ 25%

The contraceptives most likely to fail are controlled by men or as in the rhythm method the active consent of men.
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Learn to read. I am pro-choice but that doesn't mean I am incorrect to say that a woman who KNOWS she shouldn't being playing with fire and does it anyway isn't being irresponsible.
Obviously, a woman who uses reliable bc isn't being irresponsible when she finds herself pregnant. I made no judgment about such women so stop trying to assign beliefs to me that I never entertained.
 
weaver2 said:
Then why are you claiming that women have the sole guilt in sex that creates an unwanted pregnancy?
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I never wrote the above.
Why do lie?

trixare4kids said:
You can sugar coat it but becoming pregnant and knowing you shouldn't is an act of irresponsibility.
As to your second question, her sex partner bears equal responsibility for an unwanted pregnancy... but there again, both know going in he doesn't bear the ultimate responsibility of deciding to go forth or with the decision to end the pregnancy. It's her body, her decision, remember? Her ultimate responsibility to terminate the life growing inside her or going forth with her pregnancy.
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trixare4kids said:
Having an irresponsible pregnancy isn't magically erased because the woman chooses abortion.
I see what you are saying and I don't disagree because the ultimate choice to end or go forth is hers, but what I guess I am trying to say is that she still is irresponsible for having gotten pregnant when she KNEW she shouldn't.
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No one said it was. But having the child when you cant afford to or knowing you would be an awful parent, even cause harm to the child is continuing to make irresponsible decisions.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
 
roguenuke said:
Wrong. Sometimes responsibility is to those who are already born, including the woman and/or other children she may already have rather than a pregnancy that came from an irresponsible decision. For some women, the responsible thing to do in relation to that irresponsible decision that got her pregnant is to have an abortion.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
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Not wrong. In fact, you just proved my argument.

Like you do in the next one as well...

roguenuke said:
No one said it was. But having the child when you cant afford to or knowing you would be an awful parent, even cause harm to the child is continuing to make irresponsible decisions.
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Thank you.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
Fun that you're so triggered by having your dishonesty pointed out that you're compelled to lie.

Nothing new there.
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The usual weak insults instead of an actual argument... nothing has changed in how you present yourself.
 
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