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Prove me wrong, pro-lifers

smallvoice said:
No, I think not. You just say you are.
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There is not reason to think I am not what a Christian based on what I know Jesus said and truly believe in. The definition of Christian has always been the same for almost 2,000 years. It is believing in the triune God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as one), accepting Jesus as the risen Savior, and loving who and what God is according to His Word, the Bible.
 
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Free Thinker said:
You are wrong about all of it. Killing human life is exactly that. Don't feel the need to prove anything to you or any other abortionist. It's like arguing with my dog or the dirty dish pile. I know killing when I see it. Period.

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If humans become an endangered species, then will be the time to change our laws on abortion.
Until then, NO!
 
Elvira said:
Take it up with God...the Hebrew word for murder is ratsach, which clearly refers to deliberate and unlawful killing...

"You must not murder." Exodus 20:13
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Because the Bible obviously is not the U.S. Constitution, Exodus 20:13 has absolutely no effect on the definition of murder.
 
Blue Donkey said:
If you know everything about the United States Constitution that is taught in mandatory 12th grade government classes, which should be 100% of American citizens on Debate Politics, certainly it should be very easy to understand abortion rights have been part of it since 1789. If you had mandatory sex education in health classes, which should be 100% of Americans at least 11 years old, you also should have no difficulty understanding why abortion is biologically moral and must be legal. It's awful that many Debate Politics members have very little or no understanding of what these two subjects mean for the morality of women's human and legal rights to have abortions.

Before you try to criticize pro-choicers on the forum, please think carefully about the following:

1. The word "born" id explicit is in the 14th Ame4ndment. This word alone permanently prevents all zygotes, blastocysts, embryos, and fetuses from having the legal right to life. Therefore, abortion can never be illegal in America.
2. The same amendment and several others guarantee every American citizen, including pregnant girls and women, has the human rights to privacy, bodily autonomy, and lifestyle choices like whether to have kids or another kid.
3. When a girl or woman is pregnant, she probably gets sick every morning (throwing up and feeling pain), feels fatigued every afternoon, can't function normally, takes time off work, and is at risk of getting severe complications.
4. Until sometime during the third trimester, an unborn offspring is not able to think or perceive anything so it cannot suffer during an elective abortion because they never happen that late - almost all abortions happen very early.
5. A human being is not viable until normal breathing, drinking, digestion, circulation, sleep/wake cycle, and voluntary movement fully independent of the mom or technology have been occurring, not at a certain time in gestation.

If I am wrong about anything, pro-lifers are able to prove it. If you try to prove it and can't, you are a liar. Go ahead guys, what am I wrong about, according to factual legal and medical sources, not churches and conservative media?
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I guess you can find a some half baked reason to legitimize baby killing for no reason other than inconvenience. Nine months of inconvenience as opposed to roughly 80 years of life.
 
smallvoice said:
It certainly does, which is what is wrong with every liberal I ever met.
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If this is true, only devout Christians can be moral - not even all Christians because many of them never go to church. The reality is many church-going Christians are immoral. They are the conservative Christians - the people who want to control women because they were taught to do so by priests or pastors. Liberal Christians OTOH are very welcoming and prefer what Jesus would do in all things. How are love, compassion, tolerance, sympathy, respect, and acceptance of other people immoral?
 
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HumblePi said:
Didn't the Jews murder Jesus Christ?
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There is a reason everyone uses the word "crucified" instead of "murder" in the story. Pilates gave in to pressure from the Jews, who kept chanting, "Crucify him!" Jesus was tried six times that day. So it was not murder, but what we would call the death penalty.
 
Integrityrespec said:
I guess you can find a some half baked reason to legitimize baby killing for no reason other than inconvenience. Nine months of inconvenience as opposed to roughly 80 years of life.
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There is no reason to think I ever want to kill babies.

If you really want the embryo to live 80 years, why don't you care what happens to all those unwanted babies after they are born and thrown into the overburdened foster care system?
 
Integrityrespec said:
I guess you can find a some half baked reason to legitimize baby killing for no reason other than inconvenience. Nine months of inconvenience as opposed to roughly 80 years of life.
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9 months of pain, suffering, health damage, the entire changing of a life, and even the loss of her life.

Strangers and the govt are not entitled to force that pain, those risks, on another person and the Const. ensures it.


This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa
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smallvoice said:
It certainly does, which is what is wrong with every liberal I ever met.
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Moral like the priests that molested all those boys?


This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa
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Elvira said:
Take it up with God...the Hebrew word for murder is ratsach, which clearly refers to deliberate and unlawful killing...

"You must not murder." Exodus 20:13
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It's not unlawful :doh


This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa
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Lursa said:
9 months of pain, suffering, health damage, the entire changing of a life, and even the loss of her life.

Strangers and the govt are not entitled to force that pain, those risks, on another person and the Const. ensures it.
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Nor is a mythological creature believed by some to be a God.
 
Stealers Wheel said:
You're habit of name-calling aside, Roe v Wade basically says the matter is between the woman and her doctor. Until the state can demonstrate an overriding interest in interfering in that relationship, the woman's right to confidentiality between herself and her healthcare provider has to be respected.

I find it interesting that the pro-lifers like to call abortion "murder" and yet invitro fertilization is not designated as such by them, even though several viable embryos are destroyed in the process. That tells me the "abortion is murder" argument is bogus. It is about power and control, not saving innocent baby's lives.
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We Catholics, always on the right side of every moral argument, oppose in-vitro fertilization because it bypasses sexual sharing. It is immoral.
 
Free Thinker said:
That's sad since we're the only ones who know how to do you properly. Soy boy girly men tend to disappoint.
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Eeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwww, how gross. But thanks for confirming that saying no to sex (and to dating/marriage as well) with prolife guys is a very smart choice for women.
 
Blue Donkey said:
You obviously want to control women because you don't want them to have sex or get abortions if they do. It is not the woman's choice if contraception fails. It is not the woman's choice if she is raped. You know that. So you know the only solution to any unplanned pregnancy is abortion, not treating her like crap.
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Agreed. And let's not forget that some prolifers are anti-birth control as well as being anti-abortion.
 
Lursa said:
9 months of pain, suffering, health damage, the entire changing of a life, and even the loss of her life. Strangers and the govt are not entitled to force that pain, those risks, on another person and the Const. ensures it.
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Exactly. Interesting -- to say the least -- that prolifers find the health and life risks of pregnancy to women so easy to dismiss or ignore.
 
Lursa said:
9 months of pain, suffering, health damage, the entire changing of a life, and even the loss of her life.

Strangers and the govt are not entitled to force that pain, those risks, on another person and the Const. ensures it.
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If a woman voluntarily jumped off an 11-story building, and hit the ground:

1) Who made the decision for her to hit the ground? The woman or someone else?
2) When was the time for the woman to have made the decision to avoid hitting the ground? Before or after she jumped.
 
OceanBlues1 said:
Exactly. Interesting -- to say the least -- that prolifers find the health and life risks of pregnancy to women so easy to dismiss or ignore.
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"Gee, a woman had sex. Now I wonder what could have caused that pregnancy"
 
Blue Donkey said:
"Por-life" is the correct title for people who care about the baby, toddler, kid, teenager, and adult, not just the zygote, blastocyst, embryo, and fetus. You cannot be a pro-lifer if you talk about "forcing" women to stay pregnant against their will so an offspring can be a baby, then say you have no interest in what happens to her baby. Everyone who claims to be a "pro-lifer" seems to stop caring about the fetus when it becomes a baby. And if controlling women was not the only reason, nobody would say they should be "forced" to carry an unwanted offspring to term. Nobody would criticize women for having sex. Nobody would criticize women for their contraception failing. Nobody would ever call rape victims baby killers..Think about it. Why should I call anyone who uses anti-women words and phrases, which is what all of them do, pro-lifers instead of anti-choicers?

You obviously want to control women because you don't want them to have sex or get abortions if they do. It is not the woman's choice if contraception fails. It is not the woman's choice if she is raped. You know that. So you know the only solution to any unplanned pregnancy is abortion, not treating her like crap.
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Leftwingers don't care about kids -- or people--at any stage. Not a single policy of theirs helps more than hurts people.
 
Mashmont said:
Leftwingers don't care about kids -- or people--at any stage. Not a single policy of theirs helps more than hurts people.
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Well god is fine with abortion as a punishment so I do not know why christians are so anti-abortion.
 
Mashmont said:
We Catholics, always on the right side of every moral argument, oppose in-vitro fertilization because it bypasses sexual sharing. It is immoral.
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Yeah, I've noticed all those Catholic-led protests in front of the fertility clinics, just like in front of abortion clinics.

People who don't want to be parents are evil. People who want to be parents are evil.
 
Mashmont said:
If a woman voluntarily jumped off an 11-story building, and hit the ground:

1) Who made the decision for her to hit the ground? The woman or someone else?
2) When was the time for the woman to have made the decision to avoid hitting the ground? Before or after she jumped.
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It's really none of your business. And the courts have ruled that it's none of the government's business what goes on between a woman and her doctor. And that is why IVF clinics operate without interference - BECAUSE IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!
 
Ignatius said:
Lol absolutely asinine. None of that allows killing unless someone is an imbecile.
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Fast forward to Roe v. Wade, the US Supreme Court holding on abortion. Roe sets forth the first trimester of pregnancy, when the woman can opt for an abortion, if she wishes. In the second trimester, the state can put reasonable health regulations on abortion. & in the third trimester, optionally, the state can prohibit abortion, with exceptions for the woman's health or life. Roe also recognizes birth, or fetal viability, as the point @ which the fetus gains legal status as a person, & therefore has rights.

& so under Roe, elective abortion is allowed, & is not murder.
 
Integrityrespec said:
I guess you can find a some half baked reason to legitimize baby killing for no reason other than inconvenience. Nine months of inconvenience as opposed to roughly 80 years of life.
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Don't want to have an abortion, then don't have one YOURSELF.
 
Free Thinker said:
You are wrong about all of it. Killing human life is exactly that. Don't feel the need to prove anything to you or any other abortionist. It's like arguing with my dog or the dirty dish pile. I know killing when I see it. Period.

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Roe v. Wade is a balance of competing interests. The woman's, who may wish to terminate her pregnancy; the state's interest in continuing the society, & in protecting prenatal life. See Roe v. Wade - Wikipedia for a discussion of Roe.
 
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