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Pro-life or anti-choice?

vegas giants said:
Then call a cop. Murder is illegal
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TypicalRussian said:
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Abortion is a beautiful and moral thing
 
TypicalRussian said:
No, it affects the baby because it gets killed.

it was an analogy for something else.

Once again, Blue Donkey takes this out of context.
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There is no baby involved in an abortion.

Have you ever thought about the extremely obvious fact that nobody suffers during almost every abortion?
 
Individual said:
I asked for you to show quotes by the founders relating to abortion.
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If there were any quotes to produce he would have already done that. He is just making up stupid crap here.
 
TypicalRussian said:
not the point................................
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Really? I am pretty sure it is exactly the point. Why do women in Europe feel much less inclined to have an abortion. In the US the abortion rate is 19.7, in the Netherlands it is 9.7 and in Germany 6.1. Why? Better reproductive health, affordable healthcare, great social structures, peace, prosperity and if you live in the Netherlands you will get months of pregnancy leave, extra maternity leave, parental leave and all fully paid.

In fact if you have a child in the Netherlands you will be met at your home by Kraamzorg (maternity care).

The kraamverzorgster helps the mother with medical checkups, teaching mothers how to feed, teaching family members who to bathe/clean diapers, helping other children get comfortable with the new child but also washing dishes, cleaning, making sure the mother has enough rest, breakfast for the mother, babysitting older children, laundry, light grocery shopping, laundry. Normally you get this for 8 to 10 days and is almost free (with some insurances it is free, with others you pay a few dollars per hour). A new mother gets her own house help for 8 days and if there are multiple births the time spent with kraamzorg will be longer. Or if special medical needs are there for mother or baby the kraamzorg will also stay longer.

If a child needs to go to daycare (possible from 6 weeks to 4 years) you will get financial support from the government so that both parents can go to work or study without having to worry about who will look after their child.

You will also get financial aid when your child has to stay at school or at a special place after school hours have ended in what is called afterschool or outside of school care. You can pick your child up from there, usually children are either allowed to play or get help with homework, etc.

And you can also leave them at a childminder, but that will only be allowed if that childminder was trained for it and has a current first aid diploma/card. Per hour you leave your child you will get 7.45 euro an hour for daycare centers, 6.95 euro an hour for afterschool care and 5.91 euro an hour with a childminder.

On top of that all people have 5 fully paid weeks of holiday (paid by your employer), you get a quarterly stipend for each child (you can use that for clothing, trips, etc.), you get vacation money on top of your paid holiday, normally close to another months wages. Ooh, and your child until age 18 has free health and dental care under their parents health care insurance, you do not pay a dime for that service.

So yes, financial help helps women choose to give birth over choosing an abortion.

On top of that children here are happier that in most if not all countries in the world. And our teens are also among the happiest in the world.

Dutch children are the least likely in the EU got have teen pregnancies, we have low alcohol and drugs use among children, lower obesity, low bullying problems, children respect their teachers, teachers are less authoritarian and listen to their kids, poverty is low, unemployment is low, etc,etc,etc,

Even our education is publicly funded, even if that school is protestant, catholic, jewish, muslim, montessori, etc. etc. We have separation of church and state but when it comes to education all live opinions are respected and are paid for as long as the curriculum and general rules are applied.

So people with low income can choose to have a child rather than being forced to choose an abortion. Because if you have 3 kids and have to work 3 jobs to feed the ones you have, you are not going to easily condemn another child to relative poverty now are you, you are going to choose what is best for you and your three already born kids. In the Netherlands a woman is generally never forced to make such a choice.

And you can say "BUT THE TAXES!!!!!", yeah, well I have no issue with paying taxes if I can see where the money is going and that it is going to do good things, rather than just paying for a new military toy or a "space force". I would rather have a low income mother/family get help with their housing, childcare and healthcare than pay for prestige projects that only help politicians and their butt buddies.
 
Integrityrespec said:
Really easy. I'm for choice, Your choice. If you don't want to have a baby, keep your pants on and the chances are slim you will conceive. If you want a baby, get with it and you likely will get pregnant. IF you don't want a baby abstinence works,. If you aren't mature enough to keep from getting pregnant you probably don't need to be having sexual relations.
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Now there's the typical right wing "guy" answer.
 
TypicalRussian said:
not a reason, you have unprotected sex, face the consequences

Abortion is killing a baby, what is abortion then, is it letting the baby live?
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There's the problem- many times it's ONLY the woman that faces the consequences .
 
TypicalRussian said:
no they are not and should not be the breadwinners, it makes them unhappy, women divorce men who makes less than them and dont date them. women spend 70% of consuming goods in USA,corporatiosn used second wave feminism for more money
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Yes, many women ARE breadwinners. Whether you have issues with that or not, it is a FACT.

And there's no reason why women shouldn't be breadwinners, as it gives them more independence and power in their lives, which to me is very important. All women should have money of their own, as it gives them the freedom and independence they need to make important choices for themselves. And if they decide not to marry or have children, that can be their choice too.
 
TypicalRussian said:
no it is not self defense to kill a baby that they chose to have
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They're not choosing to have it, hence the abortion. And you dont get to decide if its self defense, what risk they have to accept on their body.

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