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Thread: Abortion Apologetics

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    Re: Abortion Apologetics

    Quote Originally Posted by soylentgreen View Post
    Yes there is no abortion culture. Fooling myself would be buying into the bad arguments you are making.
    Denial is a psychological defense mechanism in which a person, confronted by a fact that is too uncomfortable to accept, rejects it instead, insisting that it is not true despite overwhelming evidence. I believe Freud or his daughter plumbed that part of our psyche.
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    Re: Abortion Apologetics

    Quote Originally Posted by soylentgreen View Post
    These are your words.



    There is no abortion culture. Pro choice is a right to choose culture.

    You are correct,there is no conspiracy in the real world. But in the world of your argument that holds there is a group conspiring to create an abortion culture. there is a conspiracy.

    You are not stating what is happening in the real world. You are pretending that pro choice means pro abortion.
    Sapient adjective 1. Wise, or attempting to appear wise.

    A collective of sapient humans (species: Homo sapiens) over the years have been expressing concerns about human population.

    Date: 1798 Author: Thomas Malthus “An Essay on the Principle Population “
    Summary: positing incorrectly that humans’ proclivity for procreation would exhaust the global food supply within a matter of decades.

    Results: Population growth has remained an issue among those collective wise (intellectual) minds contemplating humankind’s future and how to solve the human overpopulation problem.

    Skipping ahead to the second half of the 1960’s...

    Date: 1966 Author: Harry Harrison “Make Room!Make Room!” Sketching a dystopian world in which too many people scrambled for too few resources.

    Date:1968 Author: Paul R Ehrlich a Stanford University biologist “The Population Bomb”
    Book sold in the millions. Summary: humankind stood on the brink of apocalypse because there were simply too many of us. over.”

    Followed by later forecasts... hundreds of millions would starve to death in the 1970’s. 65 million would be Americans. Crowded India was essentially doomed. Odds were fair that England would not exist in the year 2000. Dr. Ehrlich warned in 1970 that sometime in the next 15 years...the end would come.

    Date:1969 the pop duo Zager and Evans reached the top of the charts with a number called “In the Year 2525” which postulated that humans were on a clear path to doom.

    United Nations Population Division | Department of Economic and Social Affairs

    Human Rights Day 10 December 1966 Declaration on Population by World Leaders signed by 12 Heads of State.

    Human Rights Day 10 December 1967 1966 Declaration on Population by World Leaders signed by 30 Heads of State. Statement on population by the UN Secretary-General, U Thant.

    International Conference on Human Rights Tehran, Republic of Iran, 22 April to 13 May 1968

    1969 Declaration on Social Progress and Development Adopted by the General Assembly in resolution 2542

    For years compulsory legal sterilization occurred around the world until it was deemed illegal.

    STERILIZED in the Name of Public Health

    Providing a single example in The United States of America.

    Date: Early 1970’s... STERILIZATION in the Name of Public Health.
    Alexandra Minna Stern M.D.

    ABSTRACT

    “In exploring the history of involuntary sterilization in California, I connect the approximately 20 000 operations performed on patients in state institutions between 1909 and 1979 to the federally funded procedures carried out at a Los Angeles County hospital in the early 1970s.”

    Continued in my next post...

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    Re: Abortion Apologetics

    Quote Originally Posted by soylentgreen View Post
    These are your words.



    There is no abortion culture. Pro choice is a right to choose culture.

    You are correct,there is no conspiracy in the real world. But in the world of your argument that holds there is a group conspiring to create an abortion culture. there is a conspiracy.

    You are not stating what is happening in the real world. You are pretending that pro choice means pro abortion.
    Date: 1973 Movie “Soylent Green” about a hellish overpopulation future based on the book Make Room!Make Room!”

    World Conference on Population | UNFPA - United Nations Population Fund

    At the 1974 World Conference on Population, the international community highlighted common concerns over emerging population issues by adopting the World Population Plan of Action, containing recommendations and guidelines aimed at "a better quality of life and rapid socio-economic development" for all people. The Bucharest conference was one of*three world conferences convened by the United Nations on population (Bucharest, 1974; Mexico City, 1984; ICPD, 1994).

    Role of Abortion in Control of Global Population Growth - PubMed

    Date: 1986 Comparative Study S D Mumford, E Kessel

    Role of Abortion in Control of Global Population Growth snippets follow...

    ABSTRACT

    “No nation desirous of reducing its growth rate to 1% or less can expect to do so without the widespread use of abortion”

    PIP: Population control is an important but neglected social benefit of abortion.

    On this day, the Roe v. Wade decision | The National Constitution Center

    Final Subject: Roe versus Wade was all about abortion.

    Date: 1969 pregnant Jane Doe wanted an abortion. At the time, Texas law only allowed for abortion in cases of rape, incest, or to save the life of the mother.

    The United States District Court for the Northern District of Texas agreed, and ruled that the Texas law violated Roe’s right to privacy found in the Ninth Amendment, and was therefore unconstitutional.

    Date: 1970 Texas appealed the decision to the Supreme Court

    Date: 1973 The Court issued its 7-2 decision. In it, the Court determined that Texas had violated Roe’s constitutional right to privacy.

    Note: The ruling had nothing to do with the right to choice.

    Because the Court determined that abortions were within a woman’s “zone of privacy,” it was therefore ruling that a woman had a fundamental right to the procedure. Although this right was fundamental, that did not mean that it could not be limited.

    The Court then assessed the state’s interests. Justice Blackmun found two legitimate government interests: protecting the mother’s health and “protecting the potentiality of human life.

    The Court said that, during the first trimester, the abortion decision was left to the woman and her doctor. Following the first trimester, until fetal viability, the state’s interest in the mother’s health reaches the compelling level, and the state can regulate the procedure, only if it “reasonably relates to the preservation and protection of maternal health.” When the point of fetal viability is reached, then the state could protect its interest in “potential life” and regulate abortion to that end. This includes banning that practice of abortion at that stage in the pregnancy.

    Date: 2007 Supreme Court issued it’s 5-4 decision which upheld The Federal Abortion Ban AKA the “partial-birth abortions.”

    Roseann

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    Re: Abortion Apologetics

    Quote Originally Posted by CharisRose View Post
    Sapient adjective 1. Wise, or attempting to appear wise.

    A collective of sapient humans (species: Homo sapiens) over the years have been expressing concerns about human population.

    Date: 1798 Author: Thomas Malthus “An Essay on the Principle Population “
    Summary: positing incorrectly that humans’ proclivity for procreation would exhaust the global food supply within a matter of decades.

    Results: Population growth has remained an issue among those collective wise (intellectual) minds contemplating humankind’s future and how to solve the human overpopulation problem.

    Skipping ahead to the second half of the 1960’s...

    Date: 1966 Author: Harry Harrison “Make Room!Make Room!” Sketching a dystopian world in which too many people scrambled for too few resources.

    Date:1968 Author: Paul R Ehrlich a Stanford University biologist “The Population Bomb”
    Book sold in the millions. Summary: humankind stood on the brink of apocalypse because there were simply too many of us. over.”

    Followed by later forecasts... hundreds of millions would starve to death in the 1970’s. 65 million would be Americans. Crowded India was essentially doomed. Odds were fair that England would not exist in the year 2000. Dr. Ehrlich warned in 1970 that sometime in the next 15 years...the end would come.

    Date:1969 the pop duo Zager and Evans reached the top of the charts with a number called “In the Year 2525” which postulated that humans were on a clear path to doom.

    United Nations Population Division | Department of Economic and Social Affairs

    Human Rights Day 10 December 1966 Declaration on Population by World Leaders signed by 12 Heads of State.

    Human Rights Day 10 December 1967 1966 Declaration on Population by World Leaders signed by 30 Heads of State. Statement on population by the UN Secretary-General, U Thant.

    International Conference on Human Rights Tehran, Republic of Iran, 22 April to 13 May 1968

    1969 Declaration on Social Progress and Development Adopted by the General Assembly in resolution 2542

    For years compulsory legal sterilization occurred around the world until it was deemed illegal.

    STERILIZED in the Name of Public Health

    Providing a single example in The United States of America.

    Date: Early 1970’s... STERILIZATION in the Name of Public Health.
    Alexandra Minna Stern M.D.

    ABSTRACT

    “In exploring the history of involuntary sterilization in California, I connect the approximately 20 000 operations performed on patients in state institutions between 1909 and 1979 to the federally funded procedures carried out at a Los Angeles County hospital in the early 1970s.”

    Continued in my next post...
    Don't bother continuing you are just wasting time.

    Involuntary steralisation is not a culture of abortion driven by any women's rights movement. You will find all your examples are thought up by and actioned by men.

    Nor does listing the time line of events prove in any way an abortion culture.

    I fail to see what you are trying to achieve by this.

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    Re: Abortion Apologetics

    Quote Originally Posted by soylentgreen View Post
    Don't bother continuing you are just wasting time.

    Involuntary steralisation is not a culture of abortion driven by any women's rights movement. You will find all your examples are thought up by and actioned by men.

    Nor does listing the time line of events prove in any way an abortion culture.

    I fail to see what you are trying to achieve by this.
    I’m not wasting my time.

    Never said it was part of the women rights movement.

    Yes, it does.

    I know.

    Roseann

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    Re: Abortion Apologetics

    Quote Originally Posted by CharisRose View Post
    I’m not wasting my time.

    Never said it was part of the women rights movement.

    Yes, it does.

    I know.

    Roseann
    In what way does listing events support this mythical abortion culture.

    And if you are not saying that it is a part of the womans rights movement than who do you think is leading the so called abortion culture?

    And if you know your argument makes no sense then what is it you are trying to achieve.

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    Re: Abortion Apologetics

    Quote Originally Posted by soylentgreen View Post
    In what way does listing events support this mythical abortion culture.

    And if you are not saying that it is a part of the womans rights movement than who do you think is leading the so called abortion culture?

    And if you know your argument makes no sense then what is it you are trying to achieve.
    I simply provided real world information via the beginnings of human intervention to control population around the world due to the fears about overpopulation dire consequences.

    1. Compulsory Sterilization 2. Multiple Birth control methods. 3. Abortion

    Which eventually led to the “Abortion Culture” that has been promoted and accepted worldwide by multiple Counties and The United Nations as a means to control population numbers.

    The woman’s right movement is simply a result of the “Abortion Culture” that has been promoted worldwide.

    Society did not accept the Compulsory Sterilization idea that is why it is now illegal all over the world. However, it is still covertly practiced in some areas of the world.

    I never said... I know my argument made no sense. That was your idea.

    I was agreeing with you that you failed to see what I was trying to achieve in my post.

    Roseann

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    Re: Abortion Apologetics

    Quote Originally Posted by CharisRose View Post
    I simply provided real world information via the beginnings of human intervention to control population around the world due to the fears about overpopulation dire consequences.

    1. Compulsory Sterilization 2. Multiple Birth control methods. 3. Abortion

    Which eventually led to the “Abortion Culture” that has been promoted and accepted worldwide by multiple Counties and The United Nations as a means to control population numbers.

    The woman’s right movement is simply a result of the “Abortion Culture” that has been promoted worldwide.

    Society did not accept the Compulsory Sterilization idea that is why it is now illegal all over the world. However, it is still covertly practiced in some areas of the world.

    I never said... I know my argument made no sense. That was your idea.

    I was agreeing with you that you failed to see what I was trying to achieve in my post.

    Roseann
    You have not achieved anything though.

    Abortion is not a means to control population. It is a woman exercising her right to self determination. Trying to group all womens actions together and claiming a culture is ridiculous. Women are not acting in a concerted effort they are exercising their individual needs.

    Again you are doing nothing more than pretending a conspiracy of women cooperating to create a means of population control. Absolute nonsense.

    Yours is an argument of association. Compulsory sterilisation or governments controlling who can or cannot give birth is not the same as a women deciding whether she wants a child or not.

    You really are making a wasted argument.

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    Re: Abortion Apologetics

    Quote Originally Posted by soylentgreen View Post
    You have not achieved anything though.

    Abortion is not a means to control population. It is a woman exercising her right to self determination. Trying to group all womens actions together and claiming a culture is ridiculous. Women are not acting in a concerted effort they are exercising their individual needs.

    Again you are doing nothing more than pretending a conspiracy of women cooperating to create a means of population control. Absolute nonsense.

    Yours is an argument of association. Compulsory sterilisation or governments controlling who can or cannot give birth is not the same as a women deciding whether she wants a child or not.

    You really are making a wasted argument.
    I’m saying it is possible that women may be being used as tools to accomplish the population controls desired by Worldwide Governments/The United Nations 3 goals mentioned in my previous post.

    By the way, it is not just women since multiple men have jumped on that bandwagon and it is also possible they may be being used as tools.

    Since, 1. compulsory sterilization in no longer legally in play. 2. Is not always effective.

    Thus the need for... 3. The “right” to abort at will, for any reason and at any point in time of pregnancy is by far the best fix to accomplish their ultimate goal of population control.

    Thus, their promotion of an “Abortion Culture” which has been accepted as a “Societal Culture” by a collective group of people. (Male & Female) Labeled “Pro-Choice”

    The problem currently is that not all people worldwide have accepted that “Abortion Culture” thus the existence of an opposing “Societal Culture” Labeled “Pro-Life”.

    Roseann

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    Re: Abortion Apologetics

    Pro-choice is more about recognizing the rights of the individual to make choices, while Pro-Life is more about controlling the choices of others when their choices have no negative effect on those who are imposing the control.

    Until the cord is cut, the Woman should have total sovereignty over her creation. That should be the point at which society and our laws should begin to apply to the child as a recognized member of society.

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