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No unborn human needs or wants legal rights

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When pro-lifers say all "unborn babies" (which are really zygotes, blastocysts, embryos, and fetuses) have the right to life, they completely ignore all of the proven biological facts about in-utero human development. Their mistakes not only include using the wrong temrinology to describe what these human lives and abortion are, but also why only born people need or should have any legal rights. I assume nobody on DP is an expert on obstetrics or human embryololgy. I hope this will help pro-lifers to learn all about that aspect of abortion vs. motherhood instead of just the fact that all pregnant girls and women need the legal right to choose that is already given to them.
 
Wrong about what, and why am I wrong? One word does not mean anything.
 
I'm just glad you referred to them as 'unborn humans' ..
 
When pro-lifers say all "unborn babies" (which are really zygotes, blastocysts, embryos, and fetuses) have the right to life, they completely ignore all of the proven biological facts about in-utero human development. Their mistakes not only include using the wrong temrinology to describe what these human lives and abortion are, but also why only born people need or should have any legal rights. I assume nobody on DP is an expert on obstetrics or human embryololgy. I hope this will help pro-lifers to learn all about that aspect of abortion vs. motherhood instead of just the fact that all pregnant girls and women need the legal right to choose that is already given to them.
Humans have rights. Citizens have more rights. You argue against yourself.
 
When pro-lifers say all "unborn babies" (which are really zygotes, blastocysts, embryos, and fetuses) have the right to life, they completely ignore all of the proven biological facts about in-utero human development. Their mistakes not only include using the wrong temrinology to describe what these human lives and abortion are, but also why only born people need or should have any legal rights. I assume nobody on DP is an expert on obstetrics or human embryololgy. I hope this will help pro-lifers to learn all about that aspect of abortion vs. motherhood instead of just the fact that all pregnant girls and women need the legal right to choose that is already given to them.

How do anti-abortion advocates deal with US law which defines the words person, human being, child and individual as a homo sapiens who is born alive and why do they persist in using those words to define the fetus in utero when the law says they are wrong? They do it because using the word fetus means they acknowledge that it is not a person with rights but embryologically it is a non-sentient, unaware, entity without need for legal rights but with the potential of becoming a person when born.


1 U.S. Code § 8. “Person”, “human being”, “child”, and “individual” as including born-alive infant
(a) In determining the meaning of any Act of Congress, or of any ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the various administrative bureaus and agencies of the United States, the words “person”, “human being”, “child”, and “individual”, shall include every infant member of the species homo sapiens who is born alive at any stage of development.
(b) As used in this section, the term “born alive”, with respect to a member of the species homo sapiens, means the complete expulsion or extraction from his or her mother of that member, at any stage of development, who after such expulsion or extraction breathes or has a beating heart, pulsation of the umbilical cord, or definite movement of voluntary muscles, regardless of whether the umbilical cord has been cut, and regardless of whether the expulsion or extraction occurs as a result of natural or induced labor, cesarean section, or induced abortion.
(c) Nothing in this section shall be construed to affirm, deny, expand, or contract any legal status or legal right applicable to any member of the species homo sapiens at any point prior to being “born alive” as defined in this section.
1 U.S. Code SS 8 - “Person”, “human being”, “child”, and “individual” as including born-alive infant | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute
 
When pro-lifers say all "unborn babies" (which are really zygotes, blastocysts, embryos, and fetuses) have the right to life, they completely ignore all of the proven biological facts about in-utero human development. Their mistakes not only include using the wrong temrinology to describe what these human lives and abortion are, but also why only born people need or should have any legal rights. I assume nobody on DP is an expert on obstetrics or human embryololgy. I hope this will help pro-lifers to learn all about that aspect of abortion vs. motherhood instead of just the fact that all pregnant girls and women need the legal right to choose that is already given to them.

What 'magic' occurs the day before the birth of the child and the day AFTER the birth of the child that suddenly bestows them in your eyes legal rights?
 


The US code defining person is wrong???

1 U.S. Code § 8. “Person”, “human being”, “child”, and “individual” as including born-alive infant

(a) In determining the meaning of any Act of Congress, or of any ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the various administrative bureaus and agencies of the United States, the words “person”, “human being”, “child”, and “individual”, shall include every infant member of the species homo sapiens who is born alive at any stage of development.
(b) As used in this section, the term “born alive”, with respect to a member of the species homo sapiens, means the complete expulsion or extraction from his or her mother of that member, at any stage of development, who after such expulsion or extraction breathes or has a beating heart, pulsation of the umbilical cord, or definite movement of voluntary muscles, regardless of whether the umbilical cord has been cut, and regardless of whether the expulsion or extraction occurs as a result of natural or induced labor, cesarean section, or induced abortion.
(c) Nothing in this section shall be construed to affirm, deny, expand, or contract any legal status or legal right applicable to any member of the species homo sapiens at any point prior to being “born alive” as defined in this section.
1 U.S. Code SS 8 - “Person”, “human being”, “child”, and “individual” as including born-alive infant | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute
 
What 'magic' occurs the day before the birth of the child and the day AFTER the birth of the child that suddenly bestows them in your eyes legal rights?

The magic?

At birth, the baby's lungs are filled with fluid. They are not inflated. The baby takes the first breath within about 10 seconds after delivery. This breath sounds like a gasp, as the newborn's central nervous system reacts to the sudden change in temperature and environment.
Once the baby takes the first breath, a number of changes occur in the infant's lungs and circulatory system:
• Increased oxygen in the lungs causes a decrease in blood flow resistance to the lungs.
• Blood flow resistance of the baby's blood vessels also increases.
• Fluid drains or is absorbed from the respiratory system.
• The lungs inflate and begin working on their own, moving oxygen into the bloodstream and removing carbon dioxide by breathing out (exhalation).
BODY TEMPERATURE
After delivery, the newborn begins to lose heat. Receptors on the baby's skin send messages to the brain that the baby's body is cold. The baby's body creates heat by burning stores of brown fat, a type of fat found only in fetuses and newborns. Newborns are rarely seen to shiver.
LIVER
When the baby is born, the liver has various functions:
• It produces substances that help the blood to clot.
• It begins breaking down waste products such as excess red blood cells.
• It produces a protein that helps break down bilirubin. If the baby's body does not properly break down bilirubin, it can lead to newborn jaundice.
GASTROINTESTINAL TRACT
A baby's gastrointestinal system doesn't fully function until after birth.
URINARY SYSTEM
…After birth, the newborn will usually urinate within the first 24 hours of life. The kidneys become able to maintain the body's fluid and electrolyte balance.
Changes in the newborn at birth: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia


At that magic moment the fetus ends its complete dependence on the mother and functions as a separate person able to maintain all bodily function by itself and acquires legal rights commensurate with its age.
 
The magic?

At birth, the baby's lungs are filled with fluid. They are not inflated. The baby takes the first breath within about 10 seconds after delivery. This breath sounds like a gasp, as the newborn's central nervous system reacts to the sudden change in temperature and environment.
Once the baby takes the first breath, a number of changes occur in the infant's lungs and circulatory system:
• Increased oxygen in the lungs causes a decrease in blood flow resistance to the lungs.
• Blood flow resistance of the baby's blood vessels also increases.
• Fluid drains or is absorbed from the respiratory system.
• The lungs inflate and begin working on their own, moving oxygen into the bloodstream and removing carbon dioxide by breathing out (exhalation).
BODY TEMPERATURE
After delivery, the newborn begins to lose heat. Receptors on the baby's skin send messages to the brain that the baby's body is cold. The baby's body creates heat by burning stores of brown fat, a type of fat found only in fetuses and newborns. Newborns are rarely seen to shiver.
LIVER
When the baby is born, the liver has various functions:
• It produces substances that help the blood to clot.
• It begins breaking down waste products such as excess red blood cells.
• It produces a protein that helps break down bilirubin. If the baby's body does not properly break down bilirubin, it can lead to newborn jaundice.
GASTROINTESTINAL TRACT
A baby's gastrointestinal system doesn't fully function until after birth.
URINARY SYSTEM
…After birth, the newborn will usually urinate within the first 24 hours of life. The kidneys become able to maintain the body's fluid and electrolyte balance.
Changes in the newborn at birth: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia


At that magic moment the fetus ends its complete dependence on the mother and functions as a separate person able to maintain all bodily function by itself and acquires legal rights commensurate with its age.
So to you LITERALLY the unborn child prior to birth is worthless...nothing but a gathering of cells...but after the moment of birth they become 'human' and worthy of legal rights and protection?

Thats REALLY your position?
 
So to you LITERALLY the unborn child prior to birth is worthless...nothing but a gathering of cells...but after the moment of birth they become 'human' and worthy of legal rights and protection?

Thats REALLY your position?

I've looked over my response and I don't find anywhere that I said prior to birth the fetus is worthless. If you can find it I'd be glad to discuss it with you.
 
I've looked over my response and I don't find anywhere that I said prior to birth the fetus is worthless. If you can find it I'd be glad to discuss it with you.
Not human...no value...no legal status...worthless...which would apply to the unborn child in your eyes?

You described a naturally occurring biological process....part of the developmental process of most mammals since recorded time. So you still havent explained what magic occurred that changed the unborn child to a 'child' with legal status except for the occasion of birth.
 
Not human...no value...no legal status...worthless...which would apply to the unborn child in your eyes?

You described a naturally occurring biological process....part of the developmental process of most mammals since recorded time. So you still havent explained what magic occurred that changed the unborn child to a 'child' with legal status except for the occasion of birth.

I have said the fetus is not a person. It isn't. I've said it has no legal status. It doesn't. I have never said nor implied the fetus has "no value", is "worthless".

Many biological processes are not well understood and are in the realm of magic. How is birth not a magical process? In one instant the collapsed, fluid filled lungs fill with air, causing the fluid to drain out and air pressure to build in the lungs causing the left atrial pressure to exceeds right atrial pressure. This forces the septum primum against the septum secundum, closing the foramen ovale, which allowed placental blood to circulate during pregnancy and instantly the fetal heart becomes a child's heart. The same instantaneous transformations take place in the fetal digestive system, nervous system, uro-genital system, the lymphatic system. In one instant all this happens and a fetus become a baby. If you don't recognize this astounding transformation you have no moral imperative to protest against abortion.

You are not against abortion. You are against the right of privacy for women.
 
I have said the fetus is not a person. It isn't. I've said it has no legal status. It doesn't. I have never said nor implied the fetus has "no value", is "worthless".

Many biological processes are not well understood and are in the realm of magic. How is birth not a magical process? In one instant the collapsed, fluid filled lungs fill with air, causing the fluid to drain out and air pressure to build in the lungs causing the left atrial pressure to exceeds right atrial pressure. This forces the septum primum against the septum secundum, closing the foramen ovale, which allowed placental blood to circulate during pregnancy and instantly the fetal heart becomes a child's heart. The same instantaneous transformations take place in the fetal digestive system, nervous system, uro-genital system, the lymphatic system. In one instant all this happens and a fetus become a baby. If you don't recognize this astounding transformation you have no moral imperative to protest against abortion.

You are not against abortion. You are against the right of privacy for women.
And Ive asked what magically transforms the unborn child from the day before birth to the day after the birth of the child that suddenly grants the child legal status. You cut and paste a descriptions of a normally occurring biological process.

So from your perspective its perfectly acceptable to kill a worthless unborn fully developed and functioning child because they after all have no legal standing as long as they havent passed through the birth canal.
 
And Ive asked what magically transforms the unborn child from the day before birth to the day after the birth of the child that suddenly grants the child legal status. You cut and paste a descriptions of a normally occurring biological process.

So from your perspective its perfectly acceptable to kill a worthless unborn fully developed and functioning child because they after all have no legal standing as long as they havent passed through the birth canal.

When a birth is about to take place the attending OBGYN puts on a pointy hat and chants a magic mantra over the emerging head and at the exact moment of birth there is an instantaneous change from a fetus into an infant. I don't know if its the pointed hat or the mantra that gives life. All I know is that one moment it is a dependent fetus unable to live on its own and the next moment it is a live child with legal rights. It's a little bit like death, isn't it, one moment there is a live person and the next moment life disappears and it is a dead body. How is life conferred? How can something go from a living person with a unique personality to a dead body with all that made them a person gone. How does a fetus achieve living chid status in one second? Perhaps Michelangelo was right.
 
So from your perspective its perfectly acceptable to kill a worthless unborn fully developed and functioning child because they after all have no legal standing as long as they havent passed through the birth canal.

I said that? I don't remember saying that. Do you remember me saying that? Does anyone else remember me saying that? Maybe, I didn't say that. Maybe you are just an askhole asking questions and never listening to the answer.
 
What 'magic' occurs the day before the birth of the child and the day AFTER the birth of the child that suddenly bestows them in your eyes legal rights?

Where did you see a personal and subjective opinion about when a homo sapiens member is legally defined as a perosn in my post? I most certainly tried my best to avoid any appearance of that.

The difference between a fetus and a baby is not magical at all. It is legal and biological.
 
And Ive asked what magically transforms the unborn child from the day before birth to the day after the birth of the child that suddenly grants the child legal status. You cut and paste a descriptions of a normally occurring biological process.

So from your perspective its perfectly acceptable to kill a worthless unborn fully developed and functioning child because they after all have no legal standing as long as they havent passed through the birth canal.

There is no medical protocol that includes abortion a day before the birth date. It is not done. This is a ridiculous myth that you must carry on in order to implement the controls on women that seem to be important to you.
 
So to you LITERALLY the unborn child prior to birth is worthless...nothing but a gathering of cells...but after the moment of birth they become 'human' and worthy of legal rights and protection?

Thats REALLY your position?

What makes you think weaver ever said a fetus is nothing more than a gathering of cells?

What makes you think weaver ever said blastocysts, embryos, and fetuses are worthless?

What makes you think there is such a thing as an unborn child when none exist?

What makes you think biological processes are not how U.S. laws define a person?
 
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Where did you see a personal and subjective opinion about when a homo sapiens member is legally defined as a perosn in my post? I most certainly tried my best to avoid any appearance of that.

The difference between a fetus and a baby is not magical at all. It is legal and biological.

Oh let's keep on telling him about pointy hats and magic mantras. I keeps him distracted from his usual inane absurdities.
 
Oh let's keep on telling him about pointy hats and magic mantras. It keeps him distracted from his usual inane absurdities.

No way. Stop that. I started this thread to explain the biological and constitutional facts no functioning adult can dispute.

My BIL delivers babies.
 
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