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What attracts anti-abortion males to this site?

smallvoice said:
You need to get to my daughter and daughter in law. Foolish girls were so excited to show off their baby bumps and talk about being mothers.
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Well, in their cases, motherhood was a value they have put up as being worthy of pursuing. Getting pregnant was a goal of theirs and once they had achieved that goal, they were proud of themselves and wanted to show it off to the ones they care about.

Now, being unwillingly pregnant is the exact opposite of this and unwanted pregnancy is the most common cause for having an abortion.
 
soylentgreen said:
Not you though, i take it.
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No...I don't think the purposeful killing of innocent human life that would resolves the issue 9 mo later. I put two things on a scale: 1. Killing another human, which is permanent 2 9 mo limit on some behavior.

Not much of a choice there.
 
Scorps2000 said:
And men belong here just as much as women, abortion adversely affects us also!
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Absolutely, men that have thought intelligently about the issues surrounding abortion have a significant part in any discussion about abortion. They have a vested interest in the pregnancy. Unfortunately, the anti-abortion male that show up on this site what shows up on the abortion site are males that make statements and accusations about the law, women, abortion, pregnancy, fetuses that are simply untrue. They dismiss any extenuating circumstances that make abortion a rational decision as frivolous, selfish and immoral. They do not come to discuss abortion. They come to scold.

There are intelligent reasons for legal abortion and equally intelligent reasons to regulate it. If one starts from the premise that legal abortion should stop and women must carry every pregnancy to term because .... because........ ummm because.......come to think of it nobody has ever givien a reason why birth is obligatory except that's their belief.
 
Fishking said:
No...I don't think the purposeful killing of innocent human life that would resolves the issue 9 mo later. I put two things on a scale: 1. Killing another human, which is permanent 2 9 mo limit on some behavior.

Not much of a choice there.
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Libertarianism (from Latin: libertas, meaning "freedom"), or libertarism (from French: libertaire, meaning "libertarian"), is a collection of political philosophies and movements that uphold liberty as a core principle.[1] Libertarians seek to maximize political freedom and autonomy, emphasizing freedom of choice, voluntary association and individual judgement.[2] Libertarians share a skepticism of authority and state power, but they diverge on the scope of their opposition to existing economic and political systems. From Wikipedia


Banning abortion and requiring all women to carry all pregnancies to term is not a position a Libertarian would have.
 
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weaver2 said:
Libertarianism (from Latin: libertas, meaning "freedom"), or libertarism (from French: libertaire, meaning "libertarian"), is a collection of political philosophies and movements that uphold liberty as a core principle.[1] Libertarians seek to maximize political freedom and autonomy, emphasizing freedom of choice, voluntary association and individual judgement.[2] Libertarians share a skepticism of authority and state power, but they diverge on the scope of their opposition to existing economic and political systems. From Wikipedia

Banning abortion and requiring all women to carry all pregnancies to term is not a position a Libertarian would have.
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Depriving another human of their life is the ultimate violation of Libertarian ideology.
 
Fishking said:
No...I don't think the purposeful killing of innocent human life that would resolve the issue 9 mo later. I put two things on a scale: 1. Killing another human, which is permanent, and 2. 9 months limit on some behavior.

Not much of a choice there.
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Do you ever think about what happens to the women during those nine months? What she must endure, all for the sake of saving a life she tried to avoid conceiving?

Think about her. Does she have a job? Does she go to school? Is she a volunteer? Is she married? How many friends does she have? How many family members live nearby? For every question you answer, there is a follow-up question. Nothing is as simple as a time period when girls and women choose whether to have an abortion or not. This is true for everyone who has an unwanted pregnancy.
 
Blue Donkey said:
Do you ever think about what happens to the women during those nine months? What she must endure, all for the sake of saving a life she tried to avoid conceiving?

Think about her. Does she have a job? Does she go to school? Is she a volunteer? Is she married? How many friends does she have? How many family members live nearby? For every question you answer, there is a follow-up question. Nothing is as simple as a time period when girls and women choose whether to have an abortion or not. This is true for everyone who has an unwanted pregnancy.
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Not purposeful killing. And we all exist today because of this process that has happened billions of times.
 
Fishking said:
Not purposeful killing. And we all exist today because of this process that has happened billions of times.
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You wrote that so fast I know you did not think about a single one of my questions. Your response is dismissed.
 
Blue Donkey said:
You wrote that so fast I know you did not think about a single one of my questions. Your response is dismissed.
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I did read them. They are not new questions. It doesn't require thought when you've considered something hundreds of times. Again, to address you other post as well, none of that is the purposeful killing of another human.

I support women's rights, in the sense that they should have the right that males and everyone else should. Men aren't allowed to purposefully kill other innocent humans either.
 
Fishking said:
I did read them. They are not new questions. It doesn't require thought when you've considered something hundreds of times. Again, to address you other post as well, none of that is the purposeful killing of another human.

I support women's rights, in the sense that they should have the right that males and everyone else should. Men aren't allowed to purposefully kill other innocent humans either.
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Do you know men and women have all the same bodily autonomy and privacy rights? Do you know what those rights are, where they come from, and why Americans have them? This is taught in American government classes, which are required for all 12th graders to graduatre from high school. There is no excuse for not understanding exactly what "women's rights" means if you are at least 18 years old.
 
Dacke said:
Well, in their cases, motherhood was a value they have put up as being worthy of pursuing. Getting pregnant was a goal of theirs and once they had achieved that goal, they were proud of themselves and wanted to show it off to the ones they care about.

Now, being unwillingly pregnant is the exact opposite of this and unwanted pregnancy is the most common cause for having an abortion.
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The point you missed was that they knew there was a human inside-from the moment of conception.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
smallvoice said:
The point you missed was that they knew there was a human inside-from the moment of conception.
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He did not miss that point at all. It is all about whether a woman wants to be pregnant or not.
 
Blue Donkey said:
Do you know men and women have all the same bodily autonomy and privacy rights? Do you know what those rights are, where they come from, and why Americans have them? This is taught in American government classes, which are required for all 12th graders to graduatre from high school. There is no excuse for not understanding exactly what "women's rights" means if you are at least 18 years old.
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Yeah...they both have the same rights in that neither can kill another human being. It's not hard to understand. You want to ignore that part of it and only focus on a 9 mo limitation of certain activity. Like I said, put the two on the scale, and the ones weighs much heavier.
 
Blue Donkey said:
He did not miss that point at all. It is all about whether a woman wants to be pregnant or not.
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Once she is pregnant, she is pregnant, unless she decides to kill it. She should have thought of that before coitus.
 
Scorps2000 said:
What a short-sighted thought pattern. The potential of being a human being, a son or daughter! And men belong here just as much as women, abortion adversely affects us also!
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Why short-sighted? Doesnt the woman have potential too? Potential that she is living and actualizing already?

I asked why that empty 'innocence' should be valued over the life of the woman...enough to sacrifice her self-determination and potential future, even her life...which is what happens if elective abortion is ended.

I have no issues with men being part of the abortion discussion, that's not my argument, it's the OP's perhaps.
 
Fishking said:
No...I don't think the purposeful killing of innocent human life that would resolves the issue 9 mo later. I put two things on a scale: 1. Killing another human, which is permanent 2 9 mo limit on some behavior.

Not much of a choice there.
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The word innocent has no real meaning here. In the same sense a banana is innocent.

And as a alleged father you should understand the the idea of just nine months is a nonsense statement.

Women are not breeding machines. they are a life themselves, one which by your argument you do not care about.
 
Scorps2000 said:
What a short-sighted thought pattern. The potential of being a human being, a son or daughter! And men belong here just as much as women, abortion adversely affects us also!
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What a narrow minded thought pattern. Do you think that off spring are the only contribution a woman can make? And it is not that men do not belong here. it is why do men think they have the right to control women.
 
Fishking said:
Depriving another human of their life is the ultimate violation of Libertarian ideology.
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Where's that written? I'm more a supporter of this (and I have a bit of a libertarian lean): "Self determination is the most basic element of freedom."

Re: libertarianism and preserving your own life over that of another? Pretty sure it's preserving your own life and ensuring that all you are responsible for protecting (support, have commitments to, are obligated to, etc) are protected as well. If you cannot fulfill your obligations/commitments while sick, pregnant, having another mouth to feed, etc...then having a kid may not be the most responsible decision. Survival is more than just a heartbeat.

Just my philosophy on it.
 
Fishking said:
Depriving another human of their life is the ultimate violation of Libertarian ideology.
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So your argument as a libertarian is that it is alright to enslave a life against that life's will, just don't kill it.
 
soylentgreen said:
So your argument as a libertarian is that it is alright to enslave a life against that life's will, just don't kill it.
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That would be true too. The libertarian view would never be to use force on another to remain in any physical state against their will. In this case, legal force and pregnancy. It amounts to slavery.
 
soylentgreen said:
The word innocent has no real meaning here. In the same sense a banana is innocent.

And as a alleged father you should understand the the idea of just nine months is a nonsense statement.

Women are not breeding machines. they are a life themselves, one which by your argument you do not care about.
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No one said anyone was a machine. I said killing an innocent human life outweighs a temporary limit on activities. That innocent means nothing to you doesn't mean it doesn't have meaning. It only says something about you.
 
Fishking said:
Not purposeful killing. And we all exist today because of this process that has happened billions of times.
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And if it was not for natural abortion as well as medically sought out abortion species such as humans would have become extinct from overpopulation. You need to understand evolution fully. Not just cherry pick one small part of it.
 
smallvoice said:
Once she is pregnant, she is pregnant, unless she decides to kill it. She should have thought of that before coitus.
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I do. I know that if I get pregnant, abortion will be on the table. Not my problem if people don't like that.
 
Fishking said:
I did read them. They are not new questions. It doesn't require thought when you've considered something hundreds of times. Again, to address you other post as well, none of that is the purposeful killing of another human.

I support women's rights, in the sense that they should have the right that males and everyone else should. Men aren't allowed to purposefully kill other innocent humans either.
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Men are allowed to say no to anyone who demands that they donate a kidney to save a life.
Kidney Disease Statistics for the United States | NIDDK
Each year, kidney disease kills more people than breast or prostate cancer. In 2013, more than 47,000 Americans died from kidney disease.1
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You have a constitutional right to allow those 47,000 to die. Or as a libertarian do you support the idea that men should be forced by law to donate a kidney to save a life as you would have the government force women to go through a pregnancy to save a life.
 
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