Page 41 of 88 FirstFirst ... 31394041424351 ... LastLast
Results 401 to 410 of 877

Thread: [W:183]Let's have a real discussion about abortion

  1. #401
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:02 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    28,800

    Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by weaver2 View Post
    So sorry your outfit doesn't please you and you are still what you are.

    For about the 5th time here's the explanation of the Virginia bill that didn't pass and one like it in NY that did pass. I cannot imagine why this is so hard to understand unless the anti-abortion mentality is not high enough.I'm actually not expecting you to read it. but here goes anyway.Talk about pearls before swine....

    Virginia House Bill 2491, would have lessened legal restrictions on second- and third-trimester abortions. …… the measure would have reduced from three to one the number of doctors required to certify that a third-trimester abortion was necessary to prevent a pregnant woman from dying or experiencing physical or mental harm,

    This was done to end the delay in providing an abortion in emergency cases where the woman was about to die. Getting three doctors to approve ememgency treatment is unconscienable. It is not done in any other medical emergency.


    …….the bill would have eliminated an existing requirement that such harm be certified as “substantial and irremediable.”

    This was done because lawyers claimed that establishing “substantial and irremediable” cannot scientifically and legally be done.

    ……. in theory, the bill would allow a doctor to certify that a woman’s mental health was at risk from continuing a pregnancy, even at the point where she was about to give birth, and whether House Bill 2491 would make it legally permissible to perform an abortion at that stage. Tran agreed that her bill would permit that.

    Although the bill would allow an abortion at that stage, no doctor would risk losing his/her license to practice by doing this to a normal, viable, healthy fetus.It would be considered infanticide. How the bill would relate to infanticide laws was never made clear.

    Northam’s exact remarks about the bill are:
    Ralph Northam: You know, I wasn’t there, Julie, and I certainly can’t speak for Delegate Tran, but I would tell you — one, the first thing I would say is this is why decisions such as this should be made by [healthcare] providers, physicians, and the mothers and fathers that are involved. There are — you know when we talk about third-trimester abortions, these are done with the consent of, obviously, the mother, with the consent of the physicians, more than one physician by the way. And it’s done in cases where there may be severe deformities, there may be a fetus that’s non-viable. So in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered, the infant would be kept comfortable, the infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother. So I think this was really blown out of proportion …

    When Northam says “resusitation” he means removing the infant from the parents to a hospital, applying respiratory and circulatory apparatus, multiple IV’s, and injections in a steril environment unavailable the parents who may have wanted to hold and comfort their much desired baby that is about to die from it’s malformations.
    This bill is not about abortion of viable, healthy, normal fetuses. It is about non-viable infants.



    ………. a spokesperson for Northam(said) that the governor’s comments were “absolutely not” a reference to infanticide but rather “focused on the tragic and extremely rare case in which a woman with a nonviable pregnancy or severe abnormalities went into labor.” Also, according to NBC News, a spokesperson for Northam “disputed [President Trump’s] characterization” of his comments but did not provide any further clarifying details.
    It’s clear that Northam did not “state he would execute a baby after birth,” as Trump claimed
    Did Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam Say He Would 'Execute a Baby After Birth'?

    It is highly unlikely that any intelligent, thinking, educated anti-abortion person actually believes that Dr. Northam, a pediatric neurologist, who established the Children’s Specialty Group, and taught medicine and ethics at Eastern Virginia Medical School is talking about killing babies.
    Please post the link and the pull quote from the bill that specifies that this bill will never authorize or otherwise allow the termination of a new born that is healthy in all ways.

    Governor Black Face said pretty clearly that it would specifically allow this.
    We huh we'r we're it's it's a we're in the middle of a pandemic that has cost us more than 85,000 jobs as of today. Lives of billions of people. Millions of people. Millions of jobs. You know, we're in a position where, you know, we just got new unemployment insurance... -Joe Biden

  2. #402
    Maquis Admiral
    maquiscat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:41 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    11,735

    Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    I still contend that we owe the unborn a degree of protection afforded to the weakest among us to protect them from the stronger that may be trying to do them harm.
    If you are applying this logic to the unborn, then we would have to extend that logic to the born and force others to provide bodily resources to the weakest among us, in the form of blood, organs, or whatever was needed that didn't kill the provider. If you are only discussing the post born, then there is no difference in the parental choices of the newborn discussed, and a child of 8 who is dying. The parents chooses either hospice care or extraordinary attempt to save. The later hold a risk of not being able to save the offspring.


    Proposals like the one put forth in Virginia crystalize the issue. Used to be, one minute the unborn is abort-able and the next, has been birthed and is not abort-able as it is a citizen with all of the rights and protections it is due.
    That is still how it is. Hospice care for the dying, regardless of age, and the choice between that and extraordinary measures, still exist and parents have always had to make those choices for their children. Furthermore, it is still illegal to terminate a healthy child. I have yet to see any reference to being able to terminate a healthy newborn.


    If the Virginia proposal was enacted into law, abortion rights would include the termination of naturally born citizens. If that does not sound at all familiar and horrifying, history is not studied.
    Not healthy ones. Cite the section of the law that allows that if you believe otherwise.

    Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

    My leaving the conversation does not indicate you won. It means that real life took priority, or I have just tired of your idiocy.

  3. #403
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:26 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    58,947

    Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    Well, that's wonderful.

    We are once again in complete agreement.

    Euthanasia regulation has no place or logical connection to any legislation regarding abortion.

    You are arguing, once again, against your own assertion.
    Uh.....nope

  4. #404
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:26 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    58,947

    Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    So, then, you also disagree with the governor.

    We are on the same side of this.
    Uh.....nope

  5. #405
    Sage
    RaleBulgarian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:16 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,665

    Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    Don't you just hate it when a poster edits your words for no other reason than to change the meaning and then presents them as if they have not been changed?
    Lie. Prove that I changed your intended assertion.
    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    No, why do you ask?
    Because that is precisely what you asserted.
    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    Do parents have the legal right to intentionally kill or otherwise harm their children?
    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    In what way?
    Please list the quote that you feel I am misrepresenting and how it has been misrepresented.
    In that you flat out lied.
    I don’t “feel” that you misrepresented anything. I know that you have deliberately misrepresented what Northam said. Your lie/s about the proposed bill and Northam’s statements have been irrefutably disproven multiple times throughout this thread. There is no valid reason for me to accommodate your idiotic and dishonest request.
    “Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,”
    General James Mattis, United Stars Marine Corps

  6. #406
    Guru
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Oregon
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:26 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    3,939

    Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    Please post the link and the pull quote from the bill that specifies that this bill will never authorize or otherwise allow the termination of a new born that is healthy in all ways.

    Governor Black Face said pretty clearly that it would specifically allow this.


    See that bold lettering with the line under it ? It's called a link. You are supposed to read it before you start making asinine comments and calling childish names.

    And here is the link for the bill from the Virginia House although I doubt if you can read or understand legislation as actually written
    LIS > Bill Tracking > HB2491 > 2019 session. If you find anything in that bill that remotely indicates a physician can kill a newborn, please post it so we can all see it. If you can't find it I suggest you stop claiming the bill allows killing of newborns.

    The Virginia law that prohibits the killing of a new born is Virginia's infanticide law. Find it yourself. I'm tired of ignoramuses spouting off on a topic they know nothing about then demanding that someone do their research for them.
    Last edited by weaver2; 04-06-20 at 10:43 AM.

  7. #407
    Sage

    Scrabaholic's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:16 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    18,120

    Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    If the Virginia proposal was enacted into law, abortion rights would include the termination of naturally born citizens.
    Bovine excrement.


    While Black and Hispanic women comprise about 30% of the US female population today, they account for about 60% of the abortions.
    You do realise that they have a higher pregnancy rate, right? And that they are more likely to be impoverished.

  8. #408
    Guru Blue Donkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    4,623

    Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    Really!

    Please post the pull quote and link that explain whatever it is that you are trying to assert.
    I had already a link days ago. Your claim that Governor Ralph Northam wants doctors to kill healthy infants for nay reason could not be further from the truth.

    Northam’s communications director Ofirah Yheskel attempted to clarify the governor’s comments in a statement to media outlets on Wednesday.

    “No woman seeks a third trimester abortion except in the case of tragic or difficult circumstances, such as a nonviable pregnancy or in the event of severe fetal abnormalities, and the governor’s comments were limited to the actions physicians would take in the event that a woman in those circumstances went into labor,” Yheskel said. “Attempts to extrapolate these comments otherwise is in bad faith and underscores exactly why the governor believes physicians and women, not legislators, should make these difficult and deeply personal medical decisions.”

    A spokesperson for the governor told Vox that the governor had “absolutely not” been referring to the euthanasia of infants born after a failed abortion. “The governor’s comments focused on the tragic and extremely rare case in which a woman with a nonviable pregnancy or severe fetal abnormalities went into labor,” the spokesperson said.
    Virginia abortion bill: controversy around Ralph Northam comments - Vox
    Jesus rode a donkey, not an elephant.

  9. #409
    Advisor Dacke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Ikealandia
    Last Seen
    06-02-20 @ 06:14 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    377

    Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    I share your concern on this.
    I still contend that we owe the unborn a degree of protection afforded to the weakest among us to protect them from the stronger that may be trying to do them harm.
    Altruistic nonsense.

    However, since we as a society refuse the responsibility to adequately care for unwanted babies, we really cannot demand that the little girls seeking abortion on demand do so.
    Little girls are infertile can therefore not have abortions.

    While Black and Hispanic women comprise about 30% of the US female population today, they account for about 60% of the abortions. Ms. Sanger's goals are still being pursued.
    Such statistics are irrelevant and complete and utter collectivist incoherence. The explanation to the racial differences are - most likely - socio-economic and I highly doubt that those who favour abortion do so because they hate minorities.

    Consider this in terms of which political groups are supporting these goals and methods and which ones are not.
    "My team is bester than your's team", ugh.
    “Academia is to knowledge what prostitution is to love: close enough on the surface.”
    - Nassim Nicholas Taleb

  10. #410
    Sage
    RaleBulgarian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:16 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,665

    Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Furthermore, it is still illegal to terminate a healthy child. I have yet to see any reference to being able to terminate a healthy newborn.
    It is illegal in every state to “terminate” any baby, regardless of their medical condition.

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Not healthy ones. Cite the section of the law that allows that if you believe otherwise.
    The proposed legislation would not permit the “termination” of any baby, regardless of any medical condition.
    “Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,”
    General James Mattis, United Stars Marine Corps

Page 41 of 88 FirstFirst ... 31394041424351 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •