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Thread: Question for pro-lifers

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    Re: Question for pro-lifers

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Donkey View Post
    Consciousness and thought are required for an embryo to suffer when it is killed.
    ....no, the ability to feel pain is all that is required to suffer it.
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    Re: Question for pro-lifers

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No, the ability to feel pain is all that is required to suffer it.
    Do you know if embryos can feel pain by Week 8?
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    Re: Question for pro-lifers

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Donkey View Post
    Do you know if embryos can feel pain by Week 8?
    It wouldn't astonish me, but, no, I'm sorry to admit, I'm not up on the latest research regarding that question.
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    Re: Question for pro-lifers

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No. At the time of the abortion, the child is already human. Our humanity is not determined by how smart we are, or how complex our "thoughts" are.

    For example, were you to walk into a hospital ward full of patients in comas and start blasting away, you would be charged with murder, not "animal abuse".
    You're making the assumption that whether or not we should apply morals depends on some quality of being "human", but if you're defining human simply as being a member Homo sapien species, then this is not necessarily true. The application of morals should only be dependent on the ability to perceive pain, or the ability to have thoughts complex enough to comprehend mortality; otherwise, a natural death would be no less cruel than an artificial one. Embryos have neither of these things.

    As for the "killing patients in comas" analogy, they generally would also have loved ones who do not want them to die, and so this would be more analogous to someone forcing a woman to have an abortion, rather than making the choice on their own. This is also why family members can make the decision to "pull the plug".
    Last edited by Flaetan; Yesterday at 11:31 PM.

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    Re: Question for pro-lifers

    Quote Originally Posted by Flaetan View Post
    You're making the assumption that whether or not we should apply morals depends on some quality of being "human", but if you're defining human simply as being a member Homo sapien species, then this is not necessarily true. The application of morals should only be dependent on the ability to perceive pain, or the ability to have thoughts complex enough to comprehend mortality; otherwise, a natural death would be no less cruel than an artificial one. Embryos have neither of these things.
    ...no. Being a moral person depends on you, not the individual you acting upon.
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    Re: Question for pro-lifers

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    ...no. Being a moral person depends on you, not the individual you acting upon.
    By "the application of morals", I mean whether or not it would be right to apply moral principles to the subject, and I do not see how that should depend on anything but the subject itself.

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    Re: Question for pro-lifers

    Well I researched it on Wikipedia's "human embryonic development" page.An 8-week old embryo has a primitive brain.
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    Re: Question for pro-lifers

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No. At the time of the abortion, the child is already human. Our humanity is not determined by how smart we are, or how complex our "thoughts" are.

    For example, were you to walk into a hospital ward full of patients in comas and start blasting away, you would be charged with murder, not "animal abuse".
    Good, so when every expectant mother applies for relief money, they have to fork over an extra 500 bucks for the fetus, because the fetus is a person, and therefore that fetus qualifies as another child.

    It's either a fetus or it's a person, and if it's a person, then it's already your CHILD, and if it's already your child then they need to fork over the extra five large.
    If they won't fork over, then they're saying that your fetus is NOT A CHILD and NOT A PERSON.

    Can't have it both ways.
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    Re: Question for pro-lifers

    Quote Originally Posted by Checkerboard Strangler View Post
    Good, so when every expectant mother applies for relief money, they have to fork over an extra 500 bucks for the fetus, because the fetus is a person, and therefore that fetus qualifies as another child.

    It's either a fetus or it's a person, and if it's a person, then it's already your CHILD, and if it's already your child then they need to fork over the extra five large.
    If they won't fork over, then they're saying that your fetus is NOT A CHILD and NOT A PERSON.

    Can't have it both ways.
    A fetus is not a child. Technically, a child is a former fetus. Human development is staged all the way from zygote>blastocyst>embryo>fetus>baby/infant>toddler>child/kid>adolescant>adult.
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    Re: Question for pro-lifers

    Is the fetus alive? Yes.
    Is it a human life? Yes.
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