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The One & Only Way To Reduce/Stop Abortions

Dragonfly

Dragonfly

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If you think the best way to stop/prevent abortions is to outlaw abortions, you're lying to yourself and ignoring all the facts.

In fact, what needs to be done is to drastically reduce unwanted and/or unplanned pregnancies.
When women don't become pregnant, they don't get abortions. Amazing huh?

So how does one logically and realistically reduce unwanted pregnancy? <--- There is the crux to the whole abortion debate

1) honest and real sex-education starting BEFORE puberty sets in
2) no more "abstinence only" nonsense
3) birth control - education about it, affordable, free, covered by health insurance, easier access to it
4) health care - affordable, covered by health insurance, easy access, free for lower income/unemployed
5) stop shaming and demeaning women when it comes to sex
6) stop insisting sex should only be for procreation

That's the best place to start.

While it's never going to be possible to 100% eliminate all abortions from happening, what can be done is to drastically reduce the number down to almost nothing that isn't a medical necessity or due to rape/incest type scenarios.

That's what most are really talking about anyway.

Trying to prevent abortions after conception will not work.

The goal should be preventing conception, in as many instances as possible, unless conception is actually the goal.

So the question is, if you're pro-life (or anti-abortion) from the legal point of view, are you actually willing to commit to working towards an honest solution or not? Are you willing to work towards the prevention of unwanted pregnancies rather than the outlawing of something that won't change the outcome in the long run?

To prevent abortions, you must prevent unwanted/unplanned pregnancies.
Are you willing to work towards that goal or not?

Footnote : sex-shaming females isn't the path forward regarding any of this either - don't go down that path
 
Dragonfly said:
If you think the best way to stop/prevent abortions is to outlaw abortions, you're lying to yourself and ignoring all the facts.

In fact, what needs to be done is to drastically reduce unwanted and/or unplanned pregnancies.
When women don't become pregnant, they don't get abortions. Amazing huh?

So how does one logically and realistically reduce unwanted pregnancy? <--- There is the answer to the whole abortion debate

1) honest and real sex-education starting BEFORE puberty sets in
2) no more "abstinence only" nonsense
3) birth control - education about it, affordable, free, covered by health insurance, easier access to it
4) health care - affordable, covered by health insurance, easy access, free for lower income/unemployed
5) stop shaming and demeaning women when it comes to sex
6) stop insisting sex should only be for procreation

That's the best place to start.

While it's never going to be possible to 100% eliminate all abortions from happening, what can be done is to drastically reduce the number down to almost nothing that isn't a medical necessity or due to rape/incest type scenarios.

That's what most are really talking about anyway.

Try to prevent abortions after conception will not work.

The goal should be preventing conception in as many instances as possible unless conception is actually the goal.

So the question is, if you're pro-life (or anti-abortion) from the legal point of view, are you actually will to commit to working towards an honest solution or not? Are you willing to work towards the prevention of unwanted pregnancies rather than the outlawing of something that won't change the outcome in the long run?

To prevent abortions, you must prevent unwanted/unplanned pregnancies.
Are you willing to work towards that goal or not?

Footnote : sex-shaming females isn't the path forward regarding any of this either - don't go down that path
Click to expand...

It is always amusing to see pro-lifers argue against free and easy access birth control.
 
calamity said:
It is always amusing to see pro-lifers argue against free and easy access birth control.
Click to expand...

You're saying that like it actually proves something calamity.

Which I'm proud to inform you that it really doesn't.
 
The only way to 100% for sure stop all abortions is to kill/enslave everyone capable of having one.
 
Oborosen said:
I'm saying that Calamity should've tried to make a point. Instead of making some form of snarky comment.
Click to expand...

Snarky? Yes.

But he also does make a point.

There's some anti-abortion folks who also refuse to accept the idea of many of the points I made in the OP.
You know, like the whole Catholic Church point of view on birth control.
 
Oborosen said:
You're saying that like it actually proves something calamity.

Which I'm proud to inform you that it really doesn't.
Click to expand...

You say that as if you napped during that whole fight to eliminate contraceptives from being a part of the ACA.

How the **** did you miss that argument? It was huge and long and made all the papers. That you now deny it ever happened is quite telling. :roll:
 
Sterilization of all newborns at birth, and mandatory sterilization of immigrants might work.
 
Dragonfly said:
If you think the best way to stop/prevent abortions is to outlaw abortions, you're lying to yourself and ignoring all the facts.

In fact, what needs to be done is to drastically reduce unwanted and/or unplanned pregnancies.
When women don't become pregnant, they don't get abortions. Amazing huh?

So how does one logically and realistically reduce unwanted pregnancy? <--- There is the crux to the whole abortion debate

1) honest and real sex-education starting BEFORE puberty sets in
2) no more "abstinence only" nonsense
3) birth control - education about it, affordable, free, covered by health insurance, easier access to it
4) health care - affordable, covered by health insurance, easy access, free for lower income/unemployed
5) stop shaming and demeaning women when it comes to sex
6) stop insisting sex should only be for procreation

That's the best place to start.

While it's never going to be possible to 100% eliminate all abortions from happening, what can be done is to drastically reduce the number down to almost nothing that isn't a medical necessity or due to rape/incest type scenarios.

That's what most are really talking about anyway.

Trying to prevent abortions after conception will not work.

The goal should be preventing conception, in as many instances as possible, unless conception is actually the goal.

So the question is, if you're pro-life (or anti-abortion) from the legal point of view, are you actually willing to commit to working towards an honest solution or not? Are you willing to work towards the prevention of unwanted pregnancies rather than the outlawing of something that won't change the outcome in the long run?

To prevent abortions, you must prevent unwanted/unplanned pregnancies.
Are you willing to work towards that goal or not?

Footnote : sex-shaming females isn't the path forward regarding any of this either - don't go down that path
Click to expand...

And we are doing most of those things...we can do them better and more IMO.

And it's working: most women, *by far* choose to have their babies and the abortion rate goes down every year.
 
Dragonfly said:
If you think the best way to stop/prevent abortions is to outlaw abortions, you're lying to yourself and ignoring all the facts.

In fact, what needs to be done is to drastically reduce unwanted and/or unplanned pregnancies.
When women don't become pregnant, they don't get abortions. Amazing huh?

So how does one logically and realistically reduce unwanted pregnancy? <--- There is the crux to the whole abortion debate

1) honest and real sex-education starting BEFORE puberty sets in
2) no more "abstinence only" nonsense
3) birth control - education about it, affordable, free, covered by health insurance, easier access to it
4) health care - affordable, covered by health insurance, easy access, free for lower income/unemployed
5) stop shaming and demeaning women when it comes to sex
6) stop insisting sex should only be for procreation

That's the best place to start.

While it's never going to be possible to 100% eliminate all abortions from happening, what can be done is to drastically reduce the number down to almost nothing that isn't a medical necessity or due to rape/incest type scenarios.

That's what most are really talking about anyway.

Trying to prevent abortions after conception will not work.

The goal should be preventing conception, in as many instances as possible, unless conception is actually the goal.

So the question is, if you're pro-life (or anti-abortion) from the legal point of view, are you actually willing to commit to working towards an honest solution or not? Are you willing to work towards the prevention of unwanted pregnancies rather than the outlawing of something that won't change the outcome in the long run?

To prevent abortions, you must prevent unwanted/unplanned pregnancies.
Are you willing to work towards that goal or not?

Footnote : sex-shaming females isn't the path forward regarding any of this either - don't go down that path
Click to expand...

AGREE 100% and been saying similar for years but i never address the "shaming/demeaning part" . . i should have . . I agree its a needed factor

what I would add that you didnt cover is also assistance/safety needs in the areas of new mothers, new families for education, job placement, child care, adoption assistance etc I think we are the ONLY first world country that doesnt regulate parental leave for new borns many countries have paternity and maternity leave.

As far as preventing abortions, the fact is Americans are actually EXCELENT at not having abortions . . .people look at the number and try to focus on that but less than .01% of sex results in abortion. While the goal should always be to lower it I dont know how much better it can get and its been going down for years/
 
AGENT J said:
what I would add that you didnt cover is also assistance/safety needs in the areas of new mothers, new families for education, job placement, child care, adoption assistance etc I think we are the ONLY first world country that doesnt regulate parental leave for new borns many countries have paternity and maternity leave.
Click to expand...

Excellent points. :peace
 
Lursa said:
And we are doing most of those things...we can do them better and more IMO.

And it's working: most women, *by far* choose to have their babies and the abortion rate goes down every year.
Click to expand...

Yep.

It's helping, and working.

If everyone bought into it we'd be much farther along.
It's just too bad many want to fight against it.
 
Funny that when a thread gets started about actual solutions to the whole ball of wax, it gets largely ignored by those screaming the loudest that something needs to be done.
 
Dragonfly said:
Funny that when a thread gets started about actual solutions to the whole ball of wax, it gets largely ignored by those screaming the loudest that something needs to be done.
Click to expand...

It's harder to find reasons for their self-righteous outrage.

Did you notice in the other thread that once we finally got Vance Mack to post his ideas on ending abortion, they were all very liberal, provide lots of entitlements-type ideas? And when he was reminded that those were the same things pro-choice people had been promoting forever, he stopped posting.
 
Dragonfly said:
If you think the best way to stop/prevent abortions is to outlaw abortions, you're lying to yourself and ignoring all the facts.

In fact, what needs to be done is to drastically reduce unwanted and/or unplanned pregnancies.
When women don't become pregnant, they don't get abortions. Amazing huh?

So how does one logically and realistically reduce unwanted pregnancy? <--- There is the crux to the whole abortion debate

1) honest and real sex-education starting BEFORE puberty sets in
2) no more "abstinence only" nonsense
3) birth control - education about it, affordable, free, covered by health insurance, easier access to it
4) health care - affordable, covered by health insurance, easy access, free for lower income/unemployed
5) stop shaming and demeaning women when it comes to sex
6) stop insisting sex should only be for procreation

That's the best place to start.

While it's never going to be possible to 100% eliminate all abortions from happening, what can be done is to drastically reduce the number down to almost nothing that isn't a medical necessity or due to rape/incest type scenarios.

That's what most are really talking about anyway.

Trying to prevent abortions after conception will not work.

The goal should be preventing conception, in as many instances as possible, unless conception is actually the goal.

So the question is, if you're pro-life (or anti-abortion) from the legal point of view, are you actually willing to commit to working towards an honest solution or not? Are you willing to work towards the prevention of unwanted pregnancies rather than the outlawing of something that won't change the outcome in the long run?

To prevent abortions, you must prevent unwanted/unplanned pregnancies.
Are you willing to work towards that goal or not?

Footnote : sex-shaming females isn't the path forward regarding any of this either - don't go down that path
Click to expand...

Maybe we should educate the dairy farmers not to give away the milk unless someone buys the cow?
 
Integrityrespec said:
Maybe we should educate the dairy farmers not to give away the milk unless someone buys the cow?
Click to expand...

Maybe you should explain why women (and men) shouldnt responsibly enjoy the wonderful gift of consensual sex? The bonding, the intimacy, the pleasure, the fun?

(And 2/3 of couples do use BC, however none works 100%)
 
Dragonfly said:
Sex-shaming right away huh? :roll:

So in your opinion married women never get abortions?
Click to expand...

Inorite! And married women make up a significant # of those having abortions.

Can you imagine the divorce rate if married couples could only have sex if they intended to have another kid? :roll: Sure, let's just demand MORE unaffordable kids be born!
 
Lursa said:
Inorite! And married women make up a significant # of those having abortions.

Can you imagine the divorce rate if married couples could only have sex if they intended to have another kid? :roll: Sure, let's just demand MORE unaffordable kids be born!
Click to expand...

I just think it's a rather piss-poor and childish man-thing to attack the female, but never even begin to mention the male.
Hi-five the dude for nailing another one, but man is she a slut!!!
 
I suggest that we end relying on the Judiciary on this matter. That the House and Senate create actual laws, which have codes, regulations, etc. to handle the problem. Democrats had the upper hand. They could have simply legislatively solved the problem. They had a court behind them. But they punted. I believe there are two ways.
1. Amend the constitution
2. Create actual laws we all can read and understand on this issue.

Both sides have ways to solve this.
 
Lursa said:
Inorite! And married women make up a significant # of those having abortions.

Can you imagine the divorce rate if married couples could only have sex if they intended to have another kid? :roll: Sure, let's just demand MORE unaffordable kids be born!
Click to expand...

Married women make up about 1 percent of abortions.

Marital status and abortion.
[Article in English, French]
Wadhera S1, Millar WJ.
Author information
Abstract
OBJECTIVES:
This article examines the marital status of women who obtained abortions between 1974 and 1994, with particular attention to those who were married or in common-law relationships.

DATA SOURCES:
The data come from Statistics Canada's publications on abortions, in-patient hospital morbidity data, and reports from the United States.

ANALYTICAL TECHNIQUES:
Crude and age-standardized abortion rates from 1974 to 1994 were calculated by marital status.

MAIN RESULTS:
While abortion rates were highest for single women, those who were married (including common-law and separated) accounted for over one-quarter of all abortions performed in 1994. Since 1974, the age-standardized abortion rate per 1,000 married women aged 15 to 44 almost doubled from 6.6 to 11.2. For most of these women, it was their first abortion, and the majority had taken at least one pregnancy to term.

Marital status and abortion. - PubMed - NCBI

National Institute of health investigation
 
Lursa said:
Maybe you should explain why women (and men) shouldnt responsibly enjoy the wonderful gift of consensual sex? The bonding, the intimacy, the pleasure, the fun?

(And 2/3 of couples do use BC, however none works 100%)
Click to expand...

1 night stands are for sex.

Couples do not engage in one night stands who are honest.
 
Dragonfly said:
I just think it's a rather piss-poor and childish man-thing to attack the female, but never even begin to mention the male.
Hi-five the dude for nailing another one, but man is she a slut!!!
Click to expand...

I have never attacked the women. I point out real stories of what women who had abortions have come to terms with. And women who were about to get abortions, but did not, came to learn from their children who they allowed to be born.


1. More common than discussed is the major problem for women is that a loving relationship can and is ruined by abortions. She ends up being the mother to her own failure in a relationship.
2. Why wish harm on relationships knowing the destructive power of an abortion?
3. Women who shun abortions, though at first wanting one, end up with children who come to them later to show enormous respect and appreciation they were allowed to be born alive and live with loving families.
 
Robertinfremont said:
1 night stands are for sex.

Couples do not engage in one night stands who are honest.
Click to expand...

How many abortions are from one night stands???? Let's see the numbers. Most people are in relationships.

Dont make stupid assumptions.


OTOH, I fully support people having one night stands, using bc, if that's what they want. It's not for me but good for them.
 
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