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Thread: Can either side give up something so that an intelligent discussion can take place?

  1. #61
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    Re: Can either side give up something so that an intelligent discussion can take place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayton3 View Post
    When some minors were being separated from their illegal immigrant parents at the border I heard many times people say

    My country doesn't put children in cages.

    Well.

    My country doesn't accept unborn children being killed before they are born (which is at most months and possibly weeks later).

    Accepting the pro choice position means you are accepting the U.S. as a nation that gives its de facto endorsement to abortion.
    There are those of us who don't want their country to do that.
    Pretty much every poll taken says the opposite of the 2nd bolded statement. The majority support elective abortion.
    Last edited by Lursa; 01-28-20 at 05:25 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by COTO View Post
    Even if this were true (it's not), how many million years do you want to spread the infection over?
    RE: Italy's mortality rate
    Quote Originally Posted by Luther View Post
    Perhaps it because their population is so old(their own doing)?

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    Re: Can either side give up something so that an intelligent discussion can take place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post

    Given that there should be some common grounds most of us can accept.
    And what are they? I think that's the OP's question.
    Quote Originally Posted by COTO View Post
    Even if this were true (it's not), how many million years do you want to spread the infection over?
    RE: Italy's mortality rate
    Quote Originally Posted by Luther View Post
    Perhaps it because their population is so old(their own doing)?

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    Re: Can either side give up something so that an intelligent discussion can take place?

    Quote Originally Posted by weaver2 View Post

    The late term abortion laws are so poorly written that many are convinced abortion of late term, healthy, genetically normal, viable fetuses are legal up to the 9th month. These laws need to be re written so they clearly explain what situations they cover, when they apply and clearly where they don't apply.
    My position is that since no such "elective" abortions take place, there is no need for legislation or compromise.

    There is no data that shows that anyone is aborting healthy, viable fetuses (unless perhaps the mother's life is in jeopardy, making it a medically necessary procedure). If you disagree, can you produce the data?

    Why is any law or compromise needed here? IMO it's only to make people feel better, but it solves nothing.

    I am against useless, feel-good legislation.
    Quote Originally Posted by COTO View Post
    Even if this were true (it's not), how many million years do you want to spread the infection over?
    RE: Italy's mortality rate
    Quote Originally Posted by Luther View Post
    Perhaps it because their population is so old(their own doing)?

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    Re: Can either side give up something so that an intelligent discussion can take place?

    Quote Originally Posted by weaver2 View Post
    The late term abortion laws are so poorly written that many are convinced abortion of late term, healthy, genetically normal, viable fetuses are legal up to the 9th month. These laws need to be re written so they clearly explain what situations they cover, when they apply and clearly where they don't apply.
    Roe v. Wade is pretty clear.

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    Re: Can either side give up something so that an intelligent discussion can take place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Pretty much every poll taken says the opposite of the 2nd bolded statement. The majority support elective abortion.
    I don't give a damn what the majority of Americans think. A majority of Americans have supported all sorts of absolute hideously evil things like elective abortion in the past. A "majority" doesn't make it right.

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    Re: Can either side give up something so that an intelligent discussion can take place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    My position is that since no such "elective" abortions take place, there is no need for legislation or compromise.

    There is no data that shows that anyone is aborting healthy, viable fetuses (unless perhaps the mother's life is in jeopardy, making it a medically necessary procedure). If you disagree, can you produce the data?

    Why is any law or compromise needed here? IMO it's only to make people feel better, but it solves nothing.

    I am against useless, feel-good legislation.
    The confusion of the laws, what they mean, who they apply to, who enforces them are imperfect and a source of division between anti-abortion and pro-choice.

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    Re: Can either side give up something so that an intelligent discussion can take place?

    Quote Originally Posted by weaver2 View Post
    Is it possible for pro-choice, and anti-abortion people to make compromises that might make possible an intelligent and realistic discussion with the possibility of creating workable laws about women's reproductive role? If so, what beliefs could each side give up?
    I believe President Clinton best described what most of us who are pro-choice support, that abortions should be “safe, legal, and rare”.

    There can be no compromise where the sovereignty of a person’s body is concerned.
    "What he did was not 'perfect.' No, it was a flagrant assault on our electoral rights, our national security interests, and our fundamental values. Corrupting an election to keep oneself in office is perhaps the most abusive and destructive violation of one's oath of office that I can imagine," Sen. Mitt Romney (R-UT)

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    Re: Can either side give up something so that an intelligent discussion can take place?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I have no doubt that you would be fine paying less (or nothing at all) and forcing someone else to pay more taxes to make that happen. Get real.
    How is that unrealistic? A return to 1950's era tax brackets as well as overturning the deregulation of the medical industry of the 1970's (forcing it once again to be not-for-profit) would make universal healthcare both affordable for the country and cheap for the average American. Billionaires can afford the few extra percentage points of taxes.

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    Re: Can either side give up something so that an intelligent discussion can take place?

    Quote Originally Posted by weaver2 View Post
    The confusion of the laws, what they mean, who they apply to, who enforces them are imperfect and a source of division between anti-abortion and pro-choice.
    I dont understand this answer at all, not as a response to the specificity of my post.

    If a law serves no purpose...what is the conflict?

    Do we need laws that demand that we dont ride unicorns when unicorns dont exist?

    So, can you clarify?
    Quote Originally Posted by COTO View Post
    Even if this were true (it's not), how many million years do you want to spread the infection over?
    RE: Italy's mortality rate
    Quote Originally Posted by Luther View Post
    Perhaps it because their population is so old(their own doing)?

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    Re: Can either side give up something so that an intelligent discussion can take place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayton3 View Post
    I don't give a damn what the majority of Americans think. A majority of Americans have supported all sorts of absolute hideously evil things like elective abortion in the past. A "majority" doesn't make it right.
    Right back 'atcha...and at least we have the Constitution to protect us from your religious beliefs.

    I can say the same about extremist fundamentalists like you, who would be so evil as to deny people the enjoyment of sex outside marriage or gays to marry the one they loved. To deny them is pure, unnecessary evil.
    Quote Originally Posted by COTO View Post
    Even if this were true (it's not), how many million years do you want to spread the infection over?
    RE: Italy's mortality rate
    Quote Originally Posted by Luther View Post
    Perhaps it because their population is so old(their own doing)?

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