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Abortion & Christ

Lursa said:
No, your own words are a sin against the Lord's Message and drive any rational person from His Blessings.

Your interpretations are an abomination.
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Your opinion.
 
Scrabaholic said:
How about you take your own advice? A woman aborting is none of your business, unless you sired the pregnancy.
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That has happened, which is why I am against it.
 
jmotivator said:
Not sure if you think that counters what I am saying.... they don't.
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It explains that man suffers from insults etc. in the process of obeying civil government. Living as a non-Catholic was something new and Calvin, writing his "Institutes of the Christian Religion" in Catholic Switzerland, was reminding his group of new protest-ants that everything was ordained by God including civil governemnts which Christ has said you must obey. Calvin added unless the civil government required you to do something against God's will.




(from 5 Minutes of Church History. Calvin on Civil Government | 5 Minutes in Church History )

……..Calvin ends his magnum opus, the Institutes of the Christian Religion, with a discussion of civil government. …..“For although this topic seems by nature alien to the spiritual doctrine of faith, which I have undertaken to discuss, what follows will show that I am right in joining them, in fact, that necessity compels me to do so.” (i.e.) a discussion of civil government ….”is necessary…. It must be there”.

……. They are both ordained by God, ….. the spiritual kingdom or the church and the magistrate (Calvin’s word for civil government)………. even though we need to endure insults and hardships, we also need to be zealous for the public welfare (which is) our natural-law or common-grace principles (that are ensured by having civil government)

Calvin has a lot to say about obedience to the government….. But obedience to man and government must never become disobedience to God. ….. “Let us comfort ourselves with the thought that we are rendering that obedience,(to civil government) which the Lord requires, when we suffer the hardships (of obeying civil government)” …… “God be praised.”


Now compare Calvin's words with the mission statements from various evangelical organizations. They are amazingly similar.
 
Dayton3 said:
What are you talking about??
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I was addressing the threat of Hell that some religious people use to condescend to those who dare to doubt. I was saying it's dumb.
 
weaver2 said:
It explains that man suffers from insults etc. in the process of obeying civil government. Living as a non-Catholic was something new and Calvin, writing his "Institutes of the Christian Religion" in Catholic Switzerland, was reminding his group of new protest-ants that everything was ordained by God including civil governemnts which Christ has said you must obey. Calvin added unless the civil government required you to do something against God's will.




(from 5 Minutes of Church History. Calvin on Civil Government | 5 Minutes in Church History )

……..Calvin ends his magnum opus, the Institutes of the Christian Religion, with a discussion of civil government. …..“For although this topic seems by nature alien to the spiritual doctrine of faith, which I have undertaken to discuss, what follows will show that I am right in joining them, in fact, that necessity compels me to do so.” (i.e.) a discussion of civil government ….”is necessary…. It must be there”.

……. They are both ordained by God, ….. the spiritual kingdom or the church and the magistrate (Calvin’s word for civil government)………. even though we need to endure insults and hardships, we also need to be zealous for the public welfare (which is) our natural-law or common-grace principles (that are ensured by having civil government)

Calvin has a lot to say about obedience to the government….. But obedience to man and government must never become disobedience to God. ….. “Let us comfort ourselves with the thought that we are rendering that obedience,(to civil government) which the Lord requires, when we suffer the hardships (of obeying civil government)” …… “God be praised.”


Now compare Calvin's words with the mission statements from various evangelical organizations. They are amazingly similar.
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Right, and again, none of this counters what I said. I appreciate the effort, but I'm not sure if you are agreeing with or trying to counter my argument or just replying to me for no reason.
 
Dayton3 said:
Having to go through an unplanned pregnancy for 9 months is simply an inconvenience (not my words, my wife's and before that my mothers, opinion echoed by all three of my sisters and both of my wife's sisters).
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Speaking of the family you stated....were their pregnancies well resourced? Did they have decent health insurance and access to good clinics and hospitals? Were they housing secure? Did being pregnant in and of itself endanger their ability to earn a living....that could make their housing insecurity worse? Did they have good social resources - friends/family with means that could help if the going got rough?
 
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D_NATURED said:
That fetus posed no threat to your life, so you don't get to decide it's fate. What's so complicated?
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Unbelievable. You people make it sound like a forgone conclusion that the mother is going to die in childbirth so you have an obligation to kill the child before it is born. That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard, this is the 21st century, not the 1800s.
 
it's just me said:
Unbelievable. You people make it sound like a forgone conclusion that the mother is going to die in childbirth so you have an obligation to kill the child before it is born. That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard, this is the 21st century, not the 1800s.
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Unbelievable is hearing the arguments of forced birthers. "You're pregnant. You will carry to term. We do not care if it kills you; should have kept your knees closed."

Amirite?
 
it's just me said:
Unbelievable. You people make it sound like a forgone conclusion that the mother is going to die in childbirth so you have an obligation to kill the child before it is born. That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard, this is the 21st century, not the 1800s.
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Uhhh...women DO die and ARE injured in pregnancy and childbirth. It's you with the incredibly outdated opinion. Human rights includes not having to allow any government, individual or fetus use your body against your will.

There's no obligation to abort and your absurd hyperbole belies your own retarded position. The word CHOICE means NO obligation...even to hysterical, hypocritical jesus freaks and general feto-philes.
 
Josie said:
So you don’t know what your own OP is referencing?
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Always assume that every post he makes is about the above...
 
it's just me said:
Unbelievable. You people make it sound like a forgone conclusion that the mother is going to die in childbirth so you have an obligation to kill the child before it is born. That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard, this is the 21st century, not the 1800s.
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That is why I argue that a woman should be allowed to abort her child no matter what and no matter how silly the reason.

Bad indigestion? Abort the ****ing thing... her choice.
 
calamity said:
Unbelievable is hearing the arguments of forced birthers. "You're pregnant. You will carry to term. We do not care if it kills you; should have kept your knees closed."

Amirite?
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No, you're not right. Again, women have children every day without complications, this is not the 1800s.
 
D_NATURED said:
Uhhh...women DO die and ARE injured in pregnancy and childbirth. It's you with the incredibly outdated opinion. Human rights includes not having to allow any government, individual or fetus use your body against your will.

There's no obligation to abort and your absurd hyperbole belies your own retarded position. The word CHOICE means NO obligation...even to hysterical, hypocritical jesus freaks and general feto-philes.
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I don't know how to break this to you but childbirth is how we propagate our species. For you to argue against that is pure ignorance.
 
Bodhisattva said:
That is why I argue that a woman should be allowed to abort her child no matter what and no matter how silly the reason.

Bad indigestion? Abort the ****ing thing... her choice.
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Part of me says some peoples kids would be better off not being born than having them for parents.
 
it's just me said:
Part of me says some peoples kids would be better off not being born than having them for parents.
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Absolutely... some people should abort all their pregnancies... some people should be made sterile.
 
it's just me said:
Women who are worried about dying in childbirth should probably stay out of cars.
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You have never been to a child birth, I take it?

It is a bloody, messy thing that is extremely intense and yes, life threatening at worst and can inflict health problems at the least. Every single one.
 
Bodhisattva said:
You have never been to a child birth, I take it?

It is a bloody, messy thing that is extremely intense and yes, life threatening at worst and can inflict health problems at the least. Every single one.
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Yes, I have. Have you? I have also had several invasive operations that were intense and life threatening but I trusted modern science and the medical professionals in attendance. Now, if these luddites on this forum are that afraid of modern science they should probably just get sterilized and be done with it.
 
Bodhisattva said:
You have never been to a child birth, I take it?

It is a bloody, messy thing that is extremely intense and yes, life threatening at worst and can inflict health problems at the least. Every single one.
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On the other hand, women have thick, luscious hair when they are pregnant.
 
it's just me said:
Unbelievable. You people make it sound like a forgone conclusion that the mother is going to die in childbirth so you have an obligation to kill the child before it is born. That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard, this is the 21st century, not the 1800s.
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So then you think the govt has a right to force you to take risks against your will? Which ones? Which ones do you want strangers or the govt dictating to you?

The risks are significant: 86,700 women in the US every year die or nearly die/have severe lifelong health damage from pregnancy and childbirth (kidney failure, aneurysm, stroke, pre-eclampsia, etc.) It cannot be predicted and obviously, all cannot be prevented.

Abortion is 14 times safer...what justification does the govt have to force women to take a riskier path? The Const protects women from exactly that and THAT is the govt's job to enforce.

Abortion safer than giving birth: study - Reuters

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Getting a legal abortion is much safer than giving birth, suggests a new U.S. study published Monday.

Researchers found that women were about 14 times more likely to die during or after giving birth to a live baby than to die from complications of an abortion.
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it's just me said:
Yes, I have. Have you? I have also had several invasive operations that were intense and life threatening but I trusted modern science and the medical professionals in attendance. Now, if these luddites on this forum are that afraid of modern science they should probably just get sterilized and be done with it.
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Both my daughters and a friends... who ended up having a stroke that negatively affects her life to this day.

Abortion should be and thankfully is a legal option that women can take.

The only problem is that it is not accessible enough.
 
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