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Bible and Abortion

Questerr said:
I’d love to see it, and something specifically about homosexuality. Not just Jesus and Paul denouncing all sex outside of marriage.
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"Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom." 1 Corinthians 6:9,10

There is no record of Jesus directly addressing the issue but he did make a statement of how God set the standard for marriage...

“Have you not read that the one who created them from the beginning made them male and female and said: ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh’? So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has yoked together, let no man put apart.”" Matthew 19:4-6
 
Elvira said:
"Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom." 1 Corinthians 6:9,10
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Nothing there about lesbians, so I guess that's okay, right?


There is no record of Jesus directly addressing the issue but he did make a statement of how God set the standard for marriage...

“Have you not read that the one who created them from the beginning made them male and female and said: ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh’? So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has yoked together, let no man put apart.”" Matthew 19:4-6
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We know that gays are born that way, they do not choose to be gay. So, if you believe God created us, then he created some of us to be gay. It makes no sense to create gays then say they cannot be gay.
 
Scrabaholic said:
Nothing there about lesbians, so I guess that's okay, right?




We know that gays are born that way, they do not choose to be gay. So, if you believe God created us, then he created some of us to be gay. It makes no sense to create gays then say they cannot be gay.
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Conservative Christians just ignore that bit of logic. It's inconvenient.
 
Scrabaholic said:
Nothing there about lesbians, so I guess that's okay, right?




We know that gays are born that way, they do not choose to be gay. So, if you believe God created us, then he created some of us to be gay. It makes no sense to create gays then say they cannot be gay.
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Only a child needs everything precisely spelled out for him and even then, he still usually gets it wrong because he has no desire to get it right...a Christian knows and understands the principles laid out in the Bible, even when a scripture does not directly address every detail nor they do not compromise those principles...

Principle “a general or fundamental truth: a comprehensive and fundamental law, doctrine, or assumption on which others are based or from which others are derived.” - Webster’s Third New International Dictionary
 
Scrabaholic said:
Nothing there about lesbians, so I guess that's okay, right?




We know that gays are born that way, they do not choose to be gay. So, if you believe God created us, then he created some of us to be gay. It makes no sense to create gays then say they cannot be gay.
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I agree.



Having an inclusive membership and including all of God’s children in a congregation demonstrates our love for God . It is a journey of ever-expanding welcoming to others to join and worship our savior.

According to a 2015 CDC report:


8% of high school students describe themselves as gay, lesbian or bisexual

These students:


Are 3x more likely to have been raped

Skip school far more often for lack of safety

At least 1/3 have been bullied on school property

Are 2x more likely to have been threatened or injured with a weapon while on school property

40% have seriously considered suicide, 29% have made an attempt in the past year

Abuse substance at a much higher rates: 50% more for marijuana, almost 2x for hallucinogens, 2x for cocaine and ecstasy, more than 4x for heroin, almost 3x for methamphetamines


Info from

Gay and Lesbian High School Students Report ‘Heartbreaking’ Levels of Violence - The New York Times
 
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Elvira said:
....... a Christian knows and understands the principles laid out in the Bible, even when a scripture does not directly address every detail .
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So, much for the inerrancy of the Bible. Make it up as you go along because a Christian just knows what God intended even if He never said a word about it.
 
Elvira said:
Only a child needs everything precisely spelled out for him and even then, he still usually gets it wrong because he has no desire to get it right...a Christian knows and understands the principles laid out in the Bible, even when a scripture does not directly address every detail nor they do not compromise those principles...
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Are you calling me a child? I can assure you, I am far past the childhood stage.

Why would it refer to male homosexuals but not female? I am a Christian and I have no problem with gays and lesbians. If God does, he can deal with them when they meet him.
 
Josie said:
Scripture is very specific about when sex should happen, as you already said --- inside of marriage.

Now what does Scripture say about marriage?
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Cool. So we should see Christian businesses demanding to see marriage certificates from any hetero couple that shows up to their business and signed affidavits that those people have not had sex before marriage, right? Can't have Christian businesses doing business with any kind of sinners, right?
 
Elvira said:
"Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom." 1 Corinthians 6:9,10

There is no record of Jesus directly addressing the issue but he did make a statement of how God set the standard for marriage...

“Have you not read that the one who created them from the beginning made them male and female and said: ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh’? So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has yoked together, let no man put apart.”" Matthew 19:4-6
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So we should be seeing Christians refusing to do business with Capitalists given that "greedy people" is mentioned in the same breath as homosexuals, right?

Also, its nice to see that the Bible is okay with homosexual women.
 
Questerr said:
Cool. So we should see Christian businesses demanding to see marriage certificates from any hetero couple that shows up to their business and signed affidavits that those people have not had sex before marriage, right? Can't have Christian businesses doing business with any kind of sinners, right?
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Umm.... where did Jesus act like that?
 
Josie said:
Umm.... where did Jesus act like that?
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Where did Jesus refuse to interact with any sinners in the same way Christians deride and oppress homosexuals?

(This is the part where you bring up the Pharisees and try to compare a theocratic dictatorship to people just trying to live their lives)
 
Questerr said:
Where did Jesus refuse to interact with any sinners in the same way Christians deride and oppress homosexuals?

(This is the part where you bring up the Pharisees and try to compare a theocratic dictatorship to people just trying to live their lives)
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I don't know why you're asking me that. I don't deride or oppress anyone. (Perhaps instead of jumping to conclusions about people based on your own prejudices and stereotypes, you just listen carefully to what they have to say.)

As to how other people behave, that's on them. :shrug:
 
Josie said:
I don't know why you're asking me that. I don't deride or oppress anyone. (Perhaps instead of jumping to conclusions about people based on your own prejudices and stereotypes, you just listen carefully to what they have to say.)

As to how other people behave, that's on them. :shrug:
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Then you are truly rare, but by and large Christians in American push for policies by political groups that oppress homosexuals.
 
Josie said:
Christians? You cited Jewish law.
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Can you quote the bible where the NT specifically talks about restricting abortion?
 
Drowning Man said:
The unborn is not a person.
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Every Christian I know would disagree with this premise, therefore any scripture which teaches against the taking of human life would come into effect.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
 
RAMOSS said:
Can you quote the bible where the NT specifically talks about restricting abortion?
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Why do you keep asking me things as if I said anything like that?
 
jeffchap said:
Every Christian I know would disagree with this premise, therefore any scripture which teaches against the taking of human life would come into effect.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
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I am Christian and the unborn is not a person.
 
Scrabaholic said:
I am Christian and the unborn is not a person.
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I agree there ma ny pro choice Protestant Christian religions who are members of the Religions Coaliation for Reproductive Choice.

Here is a little history of the RCRC

History

Since 1973, the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice, America’s only interfaith alliance dedicated to preserving reproductive choice, has worked nationally to bring the moral power of religious communities to ensure reproductive choice through education and advocacy. [/Bj
We work for reproductive options for all, with particular emphasis on reproductive issues of people of color, those living in poverty and other underserved populations.

RCRC’s 34 years of active leadership in the pro-choice movement ensures that the mainstream views of people of faith—who call for the protection and preservation of reproductive and religious freedom—are heard across the country. Our pro-faith, pro-family, pro-choice message is constant, consistent and clear and is based on fundamental principles that respect civil rights, human rights, women’s rights and religious freedom.
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Read more :

Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice – Changing The Present
 
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jeffchap said:
Every Christian I know would disagree with this premise, therefore any scripture which teaches against the taking of human life would come into effect.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
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I'm a practicing Christian and I am pro-choice. The unborn is not a person.

And I know many other such Christians whom I have seen actually live true Christian lives (rather than those that just speak and write about it), including teaching Sunday school, that were the same.
 
Lursa said:
I'm a practicing Christian and I am pro-choice. The unborn is not a person.

And I know many other such Christians whom I have seen actually live true Christian lives (rather than those that just speak and write about it), including teaching Sunday school, that were the same.
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Yep. My parents were pro choice Christians (and conservative) and they taught Sunday School. My Dad was even superintendent of the SS for a number of years.
 
Jewish law does not consider the fetus to be a being with a soul until it is born. It does not have personhood. Furthermore, before 40 days, some poskim, or deciders of Jewish law, have a low bar for allowing an abortion.

The Talmud, in Yevamos 69b, cites the view of Rav Hisda that “until forty days from conception the fetus is merely water. It is not yet considered a living being.”

If there is a threat to a woman’s life, the safety of the mother takes precedence over continuing the pregnancy at any stage. Many sources illustrate this graphically and rather unambiguously, and all modern poskim, or religious decisors, agree on this. In fact, in certain circumstances, a fetus that endangers the life of the mother is legally considered a “murderer” in active pursuit.

https://www.jta.org/2019/05/22/opinion/what-jewish-law-really-says-about-abortion
 
Scrabaholic said:
Personhood is a status bestowed by society. Society bestows it upon live birth.
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So it can change basically at any time. I prefer a permanent definition of personhood and not one conferred by mere people.
 
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