• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Pro-lifers: Justify the government telling pregnant women what to do

Blue Donkey said:
If you are sympathetic about the fact that most of these women have almost no money, why do you want them to rely on their own finances and prevent the government from giving them what they don't have? Do you expect them to get money from anyone else who has some to donate? And do you expect them to be emotionally stable enough to make the right decisions for themselves on their own while suffering physically every day?
Click to expand...

Being sympathetic does not mean wanting tax money supporting them. Good grief.
 
Lursa said:
Public assistance is an entitlement and you seem to think that people should just accept other people's tax $$ as if they are entitled to it.
Click to expand...

You are trying to change the topic. Abortion has nothing to do with entitlement.
 
Scrabaholic said:
Being sympathetic does not mean wanting tax money supporting them. Good grief.
Click to expand...

Answer my question. How do you expect women who have no money and need it during unwanted pregnancies to get it without government assistance?
 
Scrabaholic said:
Get a job. Approach charities. Family.
Click to expand...

Getting a job is not possible for women when they are pregnant. Think a long time about that.

Do you expect every pregnant woman to have a rich family and live close to women's health charities?

Federal government assistance is the ONLY way EVERY pregnant woman who needs it can get it.
 
Blue Donkey said:
Getting a job is not possible for women when they are pregnant. Think a long time about that.

Do you expect every pregnant woman to have a rich family and live close to women's health charities?
Click to expand...

I expect every pregnant woman to make the choice that is best given their circumstances and finances. *I* didn't knock them up, *my* money should not be used to support them against my will.
 
eman623 said:
I think newborn babies are usually adopted and there is a waiting list, so I'm not sure about the foster home argument.

In any case, it's a question of competing rights. The right of the mother to control her body vs the right of the unborn fetus to live.
Click to expand...

It's not a solution at all. It's not a solution for a woman that cannot make the health or obligation or commitment sacrifices that pregnancy requires. It doesnt protect a woman's health or life.

There are also already over 100,000 children in the US waiting to be adopted. (Not in foster care, that # is 400,000)

It's also directly harmful to those children waiting and hoping for an adoptive home. They are actively harmed...they are aware, knowing, even suffering...by having fewer chances at a home.

These are the reason it's completely unethical IMO to encourage women who dont want a child to maintain a pregnancy just to give it up for adoption. More kids added unnecessarily to that adoption pool means that one of those kids waiting and hoping wont get a family.*


"Waiting for a family is the longest wait of all."*

Adopt America Network | Children for Adoption*

Adoption Statistics | Adoption Network*

Waiting Children | Kids Available for Adoption | The Adoption Exchange | The Adoption Exchange
 
Blue Donkey said:
You are trying to change the topic. Abortion has nothing to do with entitlement.
Click to expand...

Your comments and assumptions about public assistance entitlements made it on-topic.

Now you are backpeddling. You claim women are owed $$ from the govt to raise kids they intentionally have that they cannot afford.
 
Blue Donkey said:
Answer my question. How do you expect women who have no money and need it during unwanted pregnancies to get it without government assistance?
Click to expand...

To choose not to have the baby.
 
Blue Donkey said:
Getting a job is not possible for women when they are pregnant. Think a long time about that.

Do you expect every pregnant woman to have a rich family and live close to women's health charities?

Federal government assistance is the ONLY way EVERY pregnant woman who needs it can get it.
Click to expand...

It's illegal for an employer to ask in interviews if a woman is pregnant. It's not always obvious, and it's easy to cover up for much of the time.

Also, why do you assume these women have no jobs???? It's also illegal to fire a pregnant woman.

And it doesnt take someone to be rich to take in their daughter again and help them while pregnant or to raise the kid. Millions do it.
 
Lursa said:
There are also already over 100,000 children in the US waiting to be adopted. (Not in foster care, that # is 400,000)
Click to expand...

How many of those are newborns?
 
Blue Donkey said:
Women have many reasons to get abortions. Most of them are legitimate. The only reason to do it that can be ignored by society is a medical emergency, which is not common. No woman or girl who lacks the time, money, and/or ability to take care of a baby should be forced to deliver it anyway. No woman or girl should be forced to suffer the next 8-9 months of her life knowing the baby will never know her and just bounce from one foster home to another. Why do all pro-lifers want this for children? Why do they think the government should decide for pregnant girls and women who will live and die? Why doesn't the government treat pregnant girls and women with the care, respect, and dignity they deserve during the most stressful times of their lives?
Click to expand...

The US government will always be right to tell all citizens, "Thou shalt not kill."
 
Scrabaholic said:
I expect every pregnant woman to make the choice that is best given their circumstances and finances. *I* didn't knock them up, *my* money should not be used to support them against my will.
Click to expand...

Imagine paying for a woman who is at a high risk of getting an abortion to successfully avoid it through medical, psychological, and adoption programs, which would result in yourself helping to save a baby's life. Would you feel good about it or complain nothing matters except keeping your own money? The answer is obvious to anyone who has read the Gospels.
 
eman623 said:
How many of those are newborns?
Click to expand...

Why does that matter? Didnt you read what I wrote? For every new baby added to that huge pool, it means another child will go without a family.

And what if the infant isnt perfect and white? Why not respond like you've actually read my entire post?
 
Blue Donkey said:
Imagine paying for a womlan who is at a high risk of getting an abortion receiving enough money to successfully avoid it through medical, psychological, and adoption programs, which would result in yourself helping to save a baby's life. Would you feel good about it or complain nothing matters except keeping your own money?
Click to expand...

Nope, I'd much rather she have the abortion.

Those born into very socio-economically challenged homes face more issues and fewer opportunities in life. That's well-known. If someone wasnt planning on a kid, why encourage it? If they arent ready or cant afford it, why encourage it?

Public assistance does not provide much in the way of security...it's still a life of poverty, which the raising and expense of a child increases.
 
Lursa said:
Why does that matter? Didnt you read what I wrote? For every new baby added to that huge pool, it means another child will go without a family.

And what if the infant isnt perfect and white? Why not respond like you've actually read my entire post?
Click to expand...

It matters in a discussion about abortion. Women give birth to infants, who are MUCH more likely to be adopted than older children. So much so, that there is a long waiting list for people to adopt newborn babies. Babies of all races and even those who are not "perfect" (what baby is?)
 
marke said:
The US government will always be right to tell all citizens, "Thou shalt not kill."
Click to expand...

The government does not make that an absolute, of course. It is the government that says we are allowed to kill fetuses.
 
eman623 said:
It matters in a discussion about abortion. Women give birth to infants, who are MUCH more likely to be adopted than older children. So much so, that there is a long waiting list for people to adopt newborn babies.
Click to expand...

Again...you are missing the harm and cruelty to the ones already being adopted...that those people COULD be adopting.

It's completely immoral, IMO, to encourage women to have MORE unwanted babies if they dont want one...it means that other children end up going without families, waiting, hoping.

And you didnt answer: And what if the infant isnt perfect and white?

Many of them are born to women that do not stop drinking or doing drugs and are born with physical and mental defects. I know...my mother, a nurse, and father used to take in special needs infants as foster parents and then they adopted my twin sisters who have many such 'special needs.'
 
Lursa said:
To choose not to have the baby.
Click to expand...

Have you ever heard of rape and incest? How about the fact that no contraception method is 100% effective except spaying and neutering?
 
Lursa said:
Again...you are missing the harm and cruelty to the ones already being adopted...that those people COULD be adopting.

It's completely immoral, IMO, to encourage women to have MORE unwanted babies if they dont want one...it means that other children end up going without families, waiting, hoping.
Click to expand...

That assumes that the older children WOULD be adopted. Of course if that were true, then they would already have been.

As for the morality of abortion, this is one of those situations where people have to weigh the lesser of two evils when making policy. The rights of the mother to control her body vs the right of the unborn fetus to live. There is no right or wrong answer. Americans will debate, but at the end of the day, we vote for or against abortion. Not directly, but the people's feelings will be reflected in the election of pro-life or pro-choice legislators.
 
Blue Donkey said:
Have you ever heard of rape and incest? How about the fact that no contraception method is 100% effective except spaying and neutering?
Click to expand...

They can still choose not to have the baby :doh
 
eman623 said:
That assumes that the older children WOULD be adopted. Of course if that were true, then they would already have been.

As for the morality of abortion, this is one of those situations where people have to weigh the lesser of two evils when making policy. The rights of the mother to control her body vs the right of the unborn fetus to live. There is no right or wrong answer. Americans will debate, but at the end of the day, we vote for or against abortion. Not directly, but the people's feelings will be reflected in the election of pro-life or pro-choice legislators.
Click to expand...

There is a right or wrong answer for each pregnant woman, but not every mother and developing baby. That is why liberals are call themselves pro-choice, not pro-abortion. It is sickening how many people think pro-choice and pro-kill are the same thing.
 
eman623 said:
That assumes that the older children WOULD be adopted. Of course if that were true, then they would already have been.

As for the morality of abortion, this is one of those situations where people have to weigh the lesser of two evils when making policy. The rights of the mother to control her body vs the right of the unborn fetus to live. There is no right or wrong answer. Americans will debate, but at the end of the day, we vote for or against abortion. Not directly, but the people's feelings will be reflected in the election of pro-life or pro-choice legislators.
Click to expand...

What makes you think they wont be? Eventually, people that cannot afford perfect American babies thru private adoptions or foreign ones to choose older kids. Not every one, but many.

And again: what about the babies that arent born white and perfect? They get added to that pool.

You didnt answer this either: How is it moral to encourage women to unnecessarily have a kid? You seem to believe that she must sacrifice everything, up to and including her life, to give birth. Is that true?

Why do you believe that the unborn is more entitled to a future and self-determination than the woman? A life is more than just breathing.

I believe in quality of life, not quantity.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom