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Debunking the "men don't get to control my body" nonsense argument

Scrabaholic said:
Here, they can opt out if their religion or belief system is against it.
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Here, in some places you can, in others you cant. They are trying to eliminate that option and here in WA St, we dont recognize it.
 
iguanaman said:
If women are opposed to abortion they don't have to have one and if a woman wants one she can have it. That is the beauty of choice. The fact is that outlawing abortion does nothing to stop it. All it does is create a new industry of illegal abortionists who prey on desperate women. That is really what "pro-lifers" are fighting for. They want illegal abortionists to prosper.
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I wonder how many of them would change their minds if someone close to them died or almost died from an illegal abortion? Watching my bestie almost die from one turned me from anti to pro choice.
 
It does not even need to be a near-death experiernce for an illegal abortion to be dangerous. They happen at home, which is NEVER a sterile environment. Lawmakers will never know what else can go wrong.

On top of that, if a woman gets an illegal "partial birth" abortion, her baby could survive with severe brain damage that can't be fixed.
 
year2late said:
I do not think anybody should control another person's body without their consent. Makes no difference if that person trying to control is another man or woman.

In my experience it is not specifically a man or woman...it is usually (not always) a person trying to push their personal religious POV on another. (at least they seem to be the loudest:lamo)

I will say, that some men, in discussing these issues seem to have very little insight into issues with pregnancy. If a man was ever pregnant, he would never describe what a woman can and does go through with pregnancy as a trivial/simple inconvenience as compared to a non pregnant state.
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So you are for abortion, legalized prostitution and the selling of one's own body parts for transplant. Correct?
 
Integrityrespec said:
So you are for abortion, legalized prostitution and the selling of one's own body parts for transplant. Correct?
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We are taking about pregnancy ... ,not prostitution and or selling off body of body parts for transplants.

Maybe you are confusing bodily autonomy with bodily integrity.
Bodiliy integrity would allow one to do whatever they wanted with their own body.

Bodily autonomy means a person has control over whom or what uses their body, for what, and for how long.

There is a difference between outside forces , something, or someone using a man or a womans body or part of their body and the man/woman doing something to him or herself States and or the Federal government have a right to protect their citizens even against self destructive behavior or unsafe medical procedures. In fact when states first made laws against abortions , they were unsafe for women but by the 1970s doctor assisted abortions before viability were safer for the woman than pregnancy and /or childbirth.
Therefore abortions before viabilty can no longer be banned as an unsafe medical procedure.

Abortion and Bodily autonomy is protected by the 14 Amendment.
Bodily autonomy prohibits states from depriving a person of liberty without due process of law.
 
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Crusader13 said:
This was recently bought up in another thread, but I thought it deserved its own as a separate issue.

A common pro-choice argument, especially from women, is that a man's opinion doesn't count. It's along the lines of "why is someone with a penis telling me what I can and can't do with my vagina?!" or (more sensibly) - "this is a woman's health issue - men don't get a say!".

In truth, this is merely a hysteric appeal to sexism and self-victimization. For a start, the Left can't even define what a woman is (or is not). In theory, I could choose to identify as a woman until the end of this post, so that must mean my opinion is validated. Crazy.

Second, this would be no different to other groups playing the same card. Should only gun owners get a say on gun laws? Should only religious people get a say on religious discrimination laws? Should we ban women from becoming prostate or penal doctors, or contributing to medical journals about these male-exclusive conditions? Of course, this would be asinine. It is no different to say men should not get a say on abortion. It's unfounded nonsense.

Lastly, and most importantly - if we polled all of the women in the world, the overwhelming majority would be against abortion anyway. Admittedly, this is because of the huge populace in ultra-Conservative or traditional societies, such as Africa, the Middle East, Indigenous tribes etc. But even if we just stick to the U.S, there are no big differences in views on abortion between men and women. In other words, women are just as likely to oppose abortion as men are.

In fact, women are sometimes more likely to oppose abortion than men are. Sources are here, here, and here. So when men oppose abortion, they are not doing so from a position of privilege or because their penis is misinforming them about women's issues. Women often have the exact same opposition to abortion so clearly it's a valid one.
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No, the issue is, bodily autonomy. If a man has something that needs medical treatment, it is his and only his decision to make. No government or "wife/mother/daughter" has a say in this.

Women deserve the same thing. They do not want something special, they want the same thing as other people have, the right to make their own medical decisions.

Pure and simple.
 
Integrityrespec said:
So you are for abortion, legalized prostitution and the selling of one's own body parts for transplant. Correct?
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I cant speak for her but I am. And legalized drugs & assisted suicide too.
 
iguanaman said:
If women are opposed to abortion they don't have to have one and if a woman wants one she can have it. That is the beauty of choice. The fact is that outlawing abortion does nothing to stop it. All it does is create a new industry of illegal abortionists who prey on desperate women. That is really what "pro-lifers" are fighting for. They want illegal abortionists to prosper.
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I think pro-lifers are unaware of these illegal abortionists and assume it is not possible to get one from anyone without a medical license. They need to be educated about these horrible individuals.
 
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Blue Donkey said:
I think pro-lifers are unaware of these illegal abortionists and assume it is not possible to get one from anyone without a medical license. They need to be educated about these horrible individuals.
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I guess too many people are unaware of the damage illegal abortionists inflicted on desperate young girls and women befor Roe was passed. Either that or they are uncaring.

Perhaps they should read the Essay by a retired doctor who spent his early training in New York City from 1948 to 1953 helping to repair the damage done by the pregnant woman herself, or illegal abortionists.

From the following :

Repairing the Damage, Before Roe


< SNIP>

I am a retired gynecologist, in my mid-80s. My early formal training in my specialty was spent in New York City, from 1948 to 1953, in two of the city’s large municipal hospitals.

There I saw and treated almost every complication of illegal abortion that one could conjure,
done either by the patient herself or by an abortionist — often unknowing, unskilled and probably uncaring. Yet the patient never told us who did the work, or where and under what conditions it was performed. She was in dire need of our help to complete the process or, as frequently was the case, to correct what damage might have been done.

< SNIP>

The worst case I saw, and one I hope no one else will ever have to face, was that of a nurse who was admitted with what looked like a partly delivered umbilical cord. Yet as soon as we examined her, we realized that what we thought was the cord was in fact part of her intestine, which had been hooked and torn by whatever implement had been used in the abortion.
It took six hours of surgery to remove the infected uterus and ovaries and repair the part of the bowel that was still functional.

It is important to remember that Roe v. Wade did not mean that abortions could be performed. They have always been done, dating from ancient Greek days.

What Roe said was that ending a pregnancy could be carried out by medical personnel, in a medically accepted setting, thus conferring on women, finally, the full rights of first-class citizens — and freeing their doctors to treat them as such.
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ESSAY: Repairing the damage done before Roe - The San Diego Union-Tribune
 
People are still killing fetuses in dangerous ways today. Those life-threatening aboritons will only increase if Planned Parenthood loses a single lawsuit.
 
Blue Donkey said:
I think pro-lifers are unaware of these illegal abortionists and assume it is not possible to get one from anyone without a medical license. They need to be educated about these horrible individuals.
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??? The very fact that the RvW issue and case arose has to do with back alley abortions and those dangers.

These are a well-known part of history and many pro-lifers have actually written that if a woman suffers, even dies in such an abortion, she deserved it.
 
Nonsense. If a woman deserves to die because she had an abortion, everyone who is sent to prison should have gotten the death penalty.
 
Lursa said:
??? The very fact that the RvW issue and case arose has to do with back alley abortions and those dangers.

These are a well-known part of history and many pro-lifers have actually written that if a woman suffers, even dies in such an abortion, she deserved it.
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There is something at the core of anti-abortion that is cruel, hateful and wants to see women punished.
 
Blue Donkey said:
Nonsense. If a woman deserves to die because she had an abortion, everyone who is sent to prison should have gotten the death penalty.
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I can only present their words, not explain or (certainly not) justify them.

I never claimed it was rational.
 
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