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Thread: Male Post-Conception Opt Out

  1. #151

    Re: Male Post-Conception Opt Out

    Quote Originally Posted by weaver2 View Post
    If a woman has an abortion (abandons) the fetus. That is the end of support for the fetus. If a man abandons the same fetus, the child has lost that man's support for the rest of it's life. That's the difference between a woman refusing responsibility and the male refusing responsibility.
    Yes thats absolutely true. I would not argue otherwise.

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  2. #152
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    Re: Male Post-Conception Opt Out

    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    I see what bodi suggested as a decent compromise. If an accidental pregnancy occurs the woman can chose to abort same as now and a man would have the right to be notified that he is going to be a father and given a window of time to abdicate his rights as the father if he so chooses. I think thwts reasonable.

    The truth is its never gonna be completely fair to everyone. The child its certainly unfair to because they have no say in the decissions made. It cant be helped but its not fair. Its also unfair to the male who wants to be a father but his oartner decides to abort. Its unfair to the women who want their childs father to be part of the childs life but he does not want that. You cant make everyone happy. Its just an improvement to the current laws.

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    I see the attempt to solve the problem, but I can't say I support it.

    But anyway, thanks for the convo. This thread has ended-up being one of the most thought provoking I've had since I've been here. But, I'm outta' here for now. Take care.
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  3. #153
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    Re: Male Post-Conception Opt Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Men to should be able to opt out of Child Support if they do not want to be a father (legally). The woman can use her legal Constitutional right to birth control if she does not want to or can not support the child on her own. (Of course there are some exceptions).

    This would give men the same rights as women... having a post-conception Opt Out of being a parent and not caring for the child.

    She informs him of pregnancy. He makes hos choice. She retains 100% bodily autonomy and then makes her choice to abort or not.

    There will be some exceptions obviously...

    This argument is about POST CONCEPTION OPTIONS.

    AFTER CONCEPTION.

    Please don't be one of the many that will show up and say... "golly darnit he had his choice when he came... or... he has no choice"

    The woman legally has a choice post-conception.
    The man legally has not choice post-conception...

    THE LAW forces his monetary contribution on the man for the woman's choice. This is a legal argument, not a biological one. Laws can change.

    Without the law he could just walk away. This is about Potentially Changing Child Support Laws to attain EQUAL RIGHTS.

    I am pro choice. I have equal care of my kids. This is a hypothetical argument about creating fairness of post conception choices for men.

    Yes. Practice safe sex and use birth control...

    Thoughts?
    Yes of course if we are looking to make it equal as far as the law is concerned that is the best way.
    CUrrently legally its unequal so this would help that.


    The woman should be required to notify the man in a certain time frame. Since RvW is 24 weeks lets say, the man has to be notified in the first 12 weeks and then he has to make an official decision to keep or negate his parental rights.
    If he negates them, thats that. Theres no getting them back unless the mother elects to give them back or extreme circumstance. Death/abuse.

    This also allows the woman time to base her decision if she is keeping the pregnancy or not based on that information.

    If he decides he does NOT want to negate his rights then everything stays the same as now

    the woman may abort if she wants
    she may not abort but give up her rights
    they both may decide to give up the child for adoption
    etc

    Its the only way to do it if one is interested in legal equality.
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  4. #154
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    Re: Male Post-Conception Opt Out

    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    Am i to understand that you believe abortion should not be a legal option for women?

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    I begrudgingly fall on the side of keeping abortion legal because all evidence suggests that criminalizing it doesn't reduce its incidence. But do I consider abortion murder? Absolutely, 100%.

    Having said this, reading these articles about the movement to extend "opt out" rights to the father--which is frankly the logical and inevitable consequence of granting such rights to the mother--is chilling my blood. Hence I can't say with certainty I'm not a damned fool for tolerating legality.

  5. #155
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    Re: Male Post-Conception Opt Out

    Quote Originally Posted by COTO View Post
    I begrudgingly fall on the side of keeping abortion legal because all evidence suggests that criminalizing it doesn't reduce its incidence. But do I consider abortion murder? Absolutely, 100%.

    Having said this, reading these articles about the movement to extend "opt out" rights to the father--which is frankly the logical and inevitable consequence of granting such rights to the mother--is chilling my blood. Hence I can't say with certainty I'm not a damned fool for tolerating legality.
    /// I ........keeping abortion 'legal' /// <----> /// I consider abortion 'murder' /// Considering murder is 'illegal' per the laws of the land, how do you rectify your stance(s) on abortion ?. It appears, based on your own words, you want 'murder' to 'remain legal.'
    " Freedom is just another word when you have nothing to lose. "

  6. #156

    Re: Male Post-Conception Opt Out

    Quote Originally Posted by COTO View Post
    I begrudgingly fall on the side of keeping abortion legal because all evidence suggests that criminalizing it doesn't reduce its incidence. But do I consider abortion murder? Absolutely, 100%.

    Having said this, reading these articles about the movement to extend "opt out" rights to the father--which is frankly the logical and inevitable consequence of granting such rights to the mother--is chilling my blood. Hence I can't say with certainty I'm not a damned fool for tolerating legality.
    I can respect where you're coming from on that. I think the idea of a man opting out is consistent with the prochoice position and the idea that a man has an obligation to take the responsibility for the life he created is consistent with the prolife position.

    I personally am not married to either. I can live with law being either or but i would like the law to be principally consistent in how it treats men and women. Treat them as alike as reasonably possible.

    Pardon the pun but the reality is that this is a hard baby to split. There is no one size fits all answer.

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  7. #157

    Re: Male Post-Conception Opt Out

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    Yes of course if we are looking to make it equal as far as the law is concerned that is the best way.
    CUrrently legally its unequal so this would help that.


    The woman should be required to notify the man in a certain time frame. Since RvW is 24 weeks lets say, the man has to be notified in the first 12 weeks and then he has to make an official decision to keep or negate his parental rights.
    If he negates them, thats that. Theres no getting them back unless the mother elects to give them back or extreme circumstance. Death/abuse.

    This also allows the woman time to base her decision if she is keeping the pregnancy or not based on that information.

    If he decides he does NOT want to negate his rights then everything stays the same as now

    the woman may abort if she wants
    she may not abort but give up her rights
    they both may decide to give up the child for adoption
    etc

    Its the only way to do it if one is interested in legal equality.
    Its not the only way but its probably the most palatable way.

    Another option is to take away abortion rights. Then both parents are legally stuck being parents whether they want to or not.

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  8. #158

    Re: Male Post-Conception Opt Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Logician Man View Post
    /// I ........keeping abortion 'legal' /// <----> /// I consider abortion 'murder' /// Considering murder is 'illegal' per the laws of the land, how do you rectify your stance(s) on abortion ?. It appears, based on your own words, you want 'murder' to 'remain legal.'
    I understand you believe abortion is immoral and i respect that feel that way but calling it murder is inaccurate. Abortions are legal so they are not murder. Murder is a legal term.

    When someone carries out a death sentence the executioner is not a murder. When a solider kills someone in combat they are not murders, etc...

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  9. #159
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    Re: Male Post-Conception Opt Out

    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    I understand you believe abortion is immoral and i respect that feel that way but calling it murder is inaccurate. Abortions are legal so they are not murder. Murder is a legal term.

    When someone carries out a death sentence the executioner is not a murder. When a solider kills someone in combat they are not murders, etc...

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    You must have me confused with someone else. I'm pro-choice and have never claimed, nor believe, abortion is immoral. Neither have I ever referred to abortion as murder. That would be intellectually dishonest and silly.
    " Freedom is just another word when you have nothing to lose. "

  10. #160

    Re: Male Post-Conception Opt Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Logician Man View Post
    You must have me confused with someone else. I'm pro-choice and have never claimed, nor believe, abortion is immoral. Neither have I ever referred to abortion as murder. That would be intellectually dishonest and silly.
    Whst was post 155 about?

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