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Thread: Male Post-Conception Opt Out

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    Re: Male Post-Conception Opt Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Jr View Post
    I am ok with paying for abortions, yes.

    When the woman 'opts out' there's no child to be raised. That's the critical difference.
    Err, there's no child to be raised when the man opts out either. If you've been following the thread, it's about giving men the right to opt out of parenthood at the time of conception, before the child even exists. In the words of feminists, the man is simply walking away from "a parasite, a cluster of cells no different to snot".

    But thanks for admitting you're happy to pay for women's sexual irresponsibility but not men's. That's blatant sexism - the world has no need for that way of thinking.
    Last edited by Crusader13; 11-11-19 at 07:44 AM.

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    Re: Male Post-Conception Opt Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusader13 View Post
    You can say the exact same thing to women who get abortions. Why couldn't they just keep the legs closed? They will proceed to have an abortion by a clinic that receives federal funding - that's your tax dollars. You seem to be OK with that. Funny how you're willing to pay for women's sexual irresponsibility but not a man's. Shameful, shameful discrimination.
    That's a strawman. There are many pro choice people who do not think abortion clinics should receive tax derived funds, or that they have to show those funds are not used for abortion, since many of those clinics offer other legit services as well. Supporting a woman's right to chose does not automatically equate to supporting the tax derived funding of that right. I support the right to bear arms. By your logic presented I also want, or at least am fine with, tax money being used to purchase arms for people for private use.

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    Re: Male Post-Conception Opt Out

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    That's a strawman. There are many pro choice people who do not think abortion clinics should receive tax derived funds, or that they have to show those funds are not used for abortion, since many of those clinics offer other legit services as well. Supporting a woman's right to chose does not automatically equate to supporting the tax derived funding of that right. I support the right to bear arms. By your logic presented I also want, or at least am fine with, tax money being used to purchase arms for people for private use.

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    Abortion is not up for debate here. I was responding to Wayne Jr saying that he doesn't think tax dollar should be spent on giving men a way out of parenthood yet he's seemingly fine with tax dollars being spent to give women a way out of parenthood. It's a double standard. In your analogy, it would be like saying you're OK with tax money being used to buy firearms for women, but not for men.

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    Re: Male Post-Conception Opt Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusader13 View Post
    Err, there's no child to be raised when the man opts out either.
    If it's born, then yes, there is a child to be raised. Your position is irrational.
    Vaccines, because it's not always about you.

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    Re: Male Post-Conception Opt Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusader13 View Post
    Abortion is not up for debate here. I was responding to Wayne Jr saying that he doesn't think tax dollar should be spent on giving men a way out of parenthood yet he's seemingly fine with tax dollars being spent to give women a way out of parenthood. It's a double standard. In your analogy, it would be like saying you're OK with tax money being used to buy firearms for women, but not for men.
    Women get pregnant, men don't. Take your objection up with nature.
    Vaccines, because it's not always about you.

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    Re: Male Post-Conception Opt Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusader13 View Post
    Abortion is not up for debate here. I was responding to Wayne Jr saying that he doesn't think tax dollar should be spent on giving men a way out of parenthood yet he's seemingly fine with tax dollars being spent to give women a way out of parenthood. It's a double standard. In your analogy, it would be like saying you're OK with tax money being used to buy firearms for women, but not for men.
    If a man gets pregnant, desires an abortion, but can't afford one, then I am happy to have my tax dollars pay for it.

    If a man gets pregnant, wants to have the baby, but the bio-mother wants to walk away, I do not support her desire to pass on the costs of her child to me.

    The problem with your position is that men don't get pregnant. Take that up with nature, I didn't design the species.
    Vaccines, because it's not always about you.

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    Re: Male Post-Conception Opt Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Jr View Post
    If it's born, then yes, there is a child to be raised. Your position is irrational.
    No, the only thing that matters is whether or not there is a child at the time of the decision. You can't charge a woman for murder 9 months after an abortion just because the child would have been a legal human by then. That's absurd.

    Abortion is literally the act of ending a life but women are not liable for it because the life being ended is not considered a legal human at the time of the act. There's no reason for men to be stripped of the same privilige. They're walking away from a cluster of cells. If the woman decides to keep that cluster of cells, what it turns into afterwards is her own responsibility.

    You can't retrospectively change the pretense after the decision had already been made. That's not how the world works.

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    Re: Male Post-Conception Opt Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusader13 View Post
    No, the only thing that matters is whether or not there is a child at the time of the decision.
    The only thing that matters is if a new legal person is created by those decisions.
    Vaccines, because it's not always about you.

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    Re: Male Post-Conception Opt Out

    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    Which post of mine did i say this?

    Condoms limit friction, feeling, and the overall enjoyment of sex for men. In other words, they suck the fun out of having sex. Women get to have sex the fun way with maximum enjoyment while not having to worry about their partner deciding the next 21 years of their life. Men don't have that privilege.

    Men no longer want to be held to some outdated standard based on social principles from decades ago.

    If women can't support a family on their own, they will need to factor that into their decision when to keep or abort the baby.

    men (have a) right to liberate themselves from predatory behaviors.
    You're right you did not make all of the above comments: I saw the 13 and didn't look at the rest of the name. Here are the posts attributed correctly.

    Condoms limit friction, feeling, and the overall enjoyment of sex for men. In other words, they suck the fun out of having sex. Women get to have sex the fun way with maximum enjoyment while not having to worry about their partner deciding the next 21 years of their life. Men don't have that privilege. Crusader13. #907

    Men no longer want to be held to some outdated standard based on social principles from decades ago. Crusader 13 #895

    If women can't support a family on their own, they will need to factor that into their decision when to keep or abort the baby. Crusader 13 #904



    My apologies for misquoting. However, you express the same attitude and refusal to acknowledge any responsibility for a child you conceived.

    men (have a) right to liberate themselves from predatory behaviors. Trouble 13. #874
    Last edited by weaver2; 11-11-19 at 09:37 AM.

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    It's not about individuals

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusader13 View Post
    You can say the exact same thing to women who get abortions. Why couldn't they just keep the legs closed? They will proceed to have an abortion by a clinic that receives federal funding - that's your tax dollars. You seem to be OK with that. Funny how you're willing to pay for women's sexual irresponsibility but not a man's. Shameful, shameful discrimination.
    It's not discrimination, it's a straight-up math/econ calculation. An abortion is a one-time expense (in terms of dollars), maybe some counseling leading up to & afterwards - a few hundred dollars is the figure I see, looking around on the Internet. As opposed to raising a child:

    "According to a 2017 report from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, the average cost of raising a child from birth through age 17 is $233,610. If that made your heart skip a beat, take a deep breath before you read on. Incorporating inflation costs, it will be more like $284,570." See The Cost of Raising a Child in 2018 - SmartAsset

    US government & taxpayers generally will not support taking over child support completely, except as a last resort; & even then, the intent is to place the child in a permanent situation - preferably with a family. As a policy matter, the amounts involved in abortion versus child maintenance to age 17 don't leave government a lot of choice. & politically, the widespread support needed to sustain government-guaranteed child maintenance for all - simply isn't there.

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