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Apologies

I

it's just me

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This is too emotional a subject for me to talk about. Allow me to apologize.
 
it's just me said:
This is too emotional a subject for me to talk about. Allow me to apologize.
Click to expand...

Accepted. The subject is imherently imbued with too much passion as it's currently framed to be anything other than polarizing. That something of this nature ever entered the realm of political discourse is a shame our leaders should bear.

My acceptance of your apology is sort of meaningless. I have no dog in this hunt for exactly the reason mentioned above.
 
it's just me said:
This is too emotional a subject for me to talk about. Allow me to apologize.
Click to expand...

I have not read many threads in the abortion forum recently, so I don't know what led up to your apology. But I will tell you this: It is an emotionally hot issue for both sides. Pro-choicers view bodily autonomy as sacred, and pro-lifers view the life of the ZEF as sacred. Which side of the struggle one falls on depends on which of those two things one values higher.

As an ex-pro-lifer, I would invite pro-lifers to hit the pause button, take a step back, and consider whether they are truly pro-life in ALL their beliefs, or just those regarding the ZEF. I would ask pro-lifers to carefully and thoughtfully consider the following questions:

-How much are you willing to scrutinize your own views and admit to any factual errors BEFORE demanding that the pro-choice side do the same? For example, are you aware that pregnancy begins at implantation and not fertilization?
-Are you aware that an ectopic pregnancy is extremely dangerous to the woman and is almost guaranteed to kill the fetus?
-How much do you care about the baby's life after it is born?
-Have you adopted any children? If you haven't, why not? If you have, did you specifically request an able-bodied child?
-Are you in favor of comprehensive sex ed, which has been repeatedly shown to be much more effective at reducing teen pregnancy than abstinence-only propaganda?
-Are you in favor of making contraceptives as affordable and available as possible? If not, why?
-If someone gets into a bad car wreck, their kidneys are destroyed, and you happen to be the world's only compatible kidney donor, should the state mandate that you give up one of your kidneys if you still have both? If not, do you still believe this even if that person would die? Why?

This is just a sample of the kinds of questions that pro-lifers need to thoughtfully, carefully, and non-defensively answer. Yes, they will be hard to answer. I should know, I had to answer them too. But their being difficult questions is no excuse to dodge them, nor is it an excuse to defensively fire off a series of poorly constructed questions to pro-choicers. You won't learn a thing that way. Again, I should know. I've been there.
 
In some cultures, the kid isn't a human being until he's a year of age. Some people say life starts when the egg is fertilized.

I'm willing to accept that life starts at 3 months, and that abortion is practical.

I don't like the states allowing abortions in third trimester. A baby can live outside the womb at that stage.
 
swing_voter said:
In some cultures, the kid isn't a human being until he's a year of age. Some people say life starts when the egg is fertilized.

I'm willing to accept that life starts at 3 months, and that abortion is practical.

I don't like the states allowing abortions in third trimester. A baby can live outside the womb at that stage.
Click to expand...

what is so magical about 3 months?
 
I usually just avoid the abortion forums, the place tends to be a dumpster fire.

Unless there is a pun to be made!
 
tacomancer said:
I usually just avoid the abortion forums, the place tends to be a dumpster fire.

Unless there is a pun to be made!
Click to expand...

Dumpster fires don't like being compared to political arguments.
 
swing_voter said:
In some cultures, the kid isn't a human being until he's a year of age. Some people say life starts when the egg is fertilized.

I'm willing to accept that life starts at 3 months, and that abortion is practical.

I don't like the states allowing abortions in third trimester. A baby can live outside the womb at that stage.
Click to expand...

Why do third trimester abortions occure?
 
swing_voter said:
In some cultures, the kid isn't a human being until he's a year of age. Some people say life starts when the egg is fertilized.

I'm willing to accept that life starts at 3 months, and that abortion is practical.

I don't like the states allowing abortions in third trimester. A baby can live outside the womb at that stage.
Click to expand...

The only abortions that occur during the third trimester are because of medical complications to the unborn or would threaten the life of the woman or would cause irreparable damage to a major bodily function of the woman if the pregnancy continued.

There are only 3 clinics and 4 clinic doctors in the US who perform abortions past 20 weeks.

In 2008 Kansas had one of the few clinics and OB/GYNs from all over the US would their patients with these complications to Kansas or of the other few clinics for their abortions.

Kansas recorded every abortion past 22 weeks.

There were 323 abortions.

192 were because the woman would have had irreparable damage to a major bodily function if the pregnancy continued.

131 were because the fetus was non viable. ( it was dead or dying and could cause a life threatening infection to the woman if not removed in a timely matter.)

See pages and 8 and 9 of the Kansas Abortion stats 2008 PDF in the following link

http://www.kdheks.gov/phi/abortion_sum/2008itopcmbnd.pdf
 
Last edited:
it's just me said:
This is too emotional a subject for me to talk about. Allow me to apologize.
Click to expand...

Your apologies would be more believable if you hadn't gone back to name calling on another thread right after starting your apologies thread.
 
weaver2 said:
Your apologies would be more believable if you hadn't gone back to name calling on another thread right after starting your apologies thread.
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I would have stood by it if you hadn't been so snotty.
 
swing_voter said:
In some cultures, the kid isn't a human being until he's a year of age. Some people say life starts when the egg is fertilized.

I'm willing to accept that life starts at 3 months, and that abortion is practical.

I don't like the states allowing abortions in third trimester. A baby can live outside the womb at that stage.
Click to expand...

Don't you think it's the deadly potential for women and not the age of the fetus that's important? The rights of the fetus are forfeit because the alternative is to deny women THEIR rights. I would give women full liberty to do whatever they believe offers them the best chance at survival.

I wouldn't want anything living inside me.
 
it's just me said:
I would have stood by it if you hadn't been so snotty.
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Telling the truth isn't being snotty. You posted your apology about calling people idiots October 22 at 7:22 AM PDT and 5 minutes later at 7:27PDT you were again telling people they were saying idiot things and telling them to "deal with it".
 
it's just me said:
Its yesterday's news, get over it.
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You've already done enough to prove that what I said was right. You don't need to keep repeating yourself with your typical "prolife"-ism. :lol:
 
Phys251 said:
You've already done enough to prove that what I said was right. You don't need to keep repeating yourself with your typical "prolife"-ism. :lol:
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And you have confirmed my suspicions, we understand each other.
 
it's just me said:
And you have confirmed my suspicions, we understand each other.
Click to expand...

You understand nothing. Go back and read post #3 s-l-o-w-l-y. Listen to the words, don't just scan them.
 
Usually people who apologize for being too emotional on a topic to post reasonably, stay away from the topic lest they fall into the same pattern. I think that would be the normal plan here.
 
Phys251 said:
You understand nothing. Go back and read post #3 s-l-o-w-l-y. Listen to the words, don't just scan them.
Click to expand...

A man of his word, he's not...
 
D_NATURED said:
Don't you think it's the deadly potential for women and not the age of the fetus that's important? The rights of the fetus are forfeit because the alternative is to deny women THEIR rights. I would give women full liberty to do whatever they believe offers them the best chance at survival.

I wouldn't want anything living inside me.
Click to expand...
Rights cannot be forfeited, only outweighed.

It is good to have someone admit the fetus has rights. That is progress.
 
Elvira said:
A man of his word, he's not...
Click to expand...

A Christian, you're not. Not only are you a heretic, but you go out of your way to lie about others.
 
Jay59 said:
Rights cannot be forfeited, only outweighed.

It is good to have someone admit the fetus has rights. That is progress.
Click to expand...

And the woman has the right to kill it
 
Phys251 said:
I have not read many threads in the abortion forum recently, so I don't know what led up to your apology. But I will tell you this: It is an emotionally hot issue for both sides. Pro-choicers view bodily autonomy as sacred, and pro-lifers view the life of the ZEF as sacred. Which side of the struggle one falls on depends on which of those two things one values higher.

As an ex-pro-lifer, I would invite pro-lifers to hit the pause button, take a step back, and consider whether they are truly pro-life in ALL their beliefs, or just those regarding the ZEF. I would ask pro-lifers to carefully and thoughtfully consider the following questions:

-How much are you willing to scrutinize your own views and admit to any factual errors BEFORE demanding that the pro-choice side do the same? For example, are you aware that pregnancy begins at implantation and not fertilization?
-Are you aware that an ectopic pregnancy is extremely dangerous to the woman and is almost guaranteed to kill the fetus?
-How much do you care about the baby's life after it is born?
-Have you adopted any children? If you haven't, why not? If you have, did you specifically request an able-bodied child?
-Are you in favor of comprehensive sex ed, which has been repeatedly shown to be much more effective at reducing teen pregnancy than abstinence-only propaganda?
-Are you in favor of making contraceptives as affordable and available as possible? If not, why?
-If someone gets into a bad car wreck, their kidneys are destroyed, and you happen to be the world's only compatible kidney donor, should the state mandate that you give up one of your kidneys if you still have both? If not, do you still believe this even if that person would die? Why?

This is just a sample of the kinds of questions that pro-lifers need to thoughtfully, carefully, and non-defensively answer. Yes, they will be hard to answer. I should know, I had to answer them too. But their being difficult questions is no excuse to dodge them, nor is it an excuse to defensively fire off a series of poorly constructed questions to pro-choicers. You won't learn a thing that way. Again, I should know. I've been there.
Click to expand...

Thankfully, I was never pro-birth. Your clarity here is something that needs to be spread. All pro-"lifers" should heed your advice.
 
btthegreat said:
Usually people who apologize for being too emotional on a topic to post reasonably, stay away from the topic lest they fall into the same pattern. I think that would be the normal plan here.
Click to expand...

Unless they get dragged back into the melee the way you dragged me back into this one.
 
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