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I am a "Baby Killer" Opinion from the NYT

year2late said:
I am in the medical field and have been since the late 70's. I have never been in a position where a person who the patient wanted in the room was not allowed . Never. I am sorry your were treated that way and it makes no sense.

OK, with one exception. ER with a patient being questioned about abuse. But that is wildly different than your situation. And in that situation I was the one excluded. I brought my mom into the ER after a fall - she clunked her head onto a corner and was on blood thinners. I knew what they were doing and my mom had a good laugh. The doctor took a double take when I told her "next time no sneaking extra pudding".:lamo
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Its funny you should bring up that you did it when you felt the injury was possibly caused by abuse. That type of adversarial relationship is how they made me feel between myself and the clinic, not me and my GF. I was rather offended and hurt by the fact that they gave my involvement so little respect or value. They ruined one of the most special moments in life bt attaching their negativity to it.

And as far as your comment about you only ever recall that happening once in your career. The only thing i can tell you about thst is that i confronted the nurse in the waiting room because my GF did not want to be alone when she found out which is why she told me in the first place that she thought she might be pregnant and its why we went there together. We both told the nurse this and we she told us she was sirry but its standard orocedure that the woman is given a private consultation first and then if the woman wants to invite her partner in they would come get me.

I was not concerned that she was going to ask for an abortion because her and i were deeply in love and we both agreed that if a child was created from that we would both be very happy about that, even though they could of aborted it without me knowing since i was not included in the reveal. I was however very concerned that they may of found some medical problem and she was there all alone recieving that news and feeling scared and alone. I wanted to be in there holding her hand and that was denied to us both.

As i said initially, it was just as horrible of a way to treat people as those churches who disply faux graves memoralizing aborted babies. Both are equaly shamefull and both groups defend it with rationalizations rather than admit what a lousy thing it is to do. Theres a right way and a wrong way to handle things and they both choose to go about it in the wrong way.

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trouble13 said:
Its funny you should bring up that you did it when you felt the injury was possibly caused by abuse. That type of adversarial relationship is how they made me feel between myself and the clinic, not me and my GF. I was rather offended and hurt by the fact that they gave my involvement so little respect or value. They ruined one of the most special moments in life bt attaching their negativity to it.

And as far as your comment about you only ever recall that happening once in your career. The only thing i can tell you about thst is that i confronted the nurse in the waiting room because my GF did not want to be alone when she found out which is why she told me in the first place that she thought she might be pregnant and its why we went there together. We both told the nurse this and we she told us she was sirry but its standard orocedure that the woman is given a private consultation first and then if the woman wants to invite her partner in they would come get me.

I was not concerned that she was going to ask for an abortion because her and i were deeply in love and we both agreed that if a child was created from that we would both be very happy about that, even though they could of aborted it without me knowing since i was not included in the reveal. I was however very concerned that they may of found some medical problem and she was there all alone recieving that news and feeling scared and alone. I wanted to be in there holding her hand and that was denied to us both.

As i said initially, it was just as horrible of a way to treat people as those churches who disply faux graves memoralizing aborted babies. Both are equaly shamefull and both groups defend it with rationalizations rather than admit what a lousy thing it is to do. Theres a right way and a wrong way to handle things and they both choose to go about it in the wrong way.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
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I am sorry for what you went through. With all the patient advocacy issues I don’t see that happening now (outside of inappropriate situations like surgery and underage and suspected abuse.)
 
nota bene said:
What misplaced snark. You should have quit while you were behind: About - Coalition for Life - Bryan/College Station, TX
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Un-fluffle your feathers, there wasn't any snark intended. If you type in "Coalition for Life-Wikipedia" what comes up is 'Coalition of Life' with absolutely no sites or cites for 'Coalition for Life'. However, after I typed in your link just now, I could then go back to the search engine type in 'Coalition for Life,' again and 'Coalition for Life' would come up.
 
weaver2 said:
Un-fluffle your feathers, there wasn't any snark intended. If you type in "Coalition for Life-Wikipedia" what comes up is 'Coalition of Life' with absolutely no sites or cites for 'Coalition for Life'. However, after I typed in your link just now, I could then go back to the search engine type in 'Coalition for Life,' again and 'Coalition for Life' would come up.
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My feathers weren't ruffled; I was amused when you doubled down, and your inability to simply admit that you were mistaken is funny too.
 
weaver2 said:
But "baby killer" is what anti-abortion protesters shout at women entering PP most of whom are not going for an abortion.
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No it’s not. I’ve been involved in the movement and I’ve never seen that except in pop culture written by leftists
 
weaver2 said:
I am a grieving mother who protected her child from a life of pain and suffering. By Lyndsay Werking-Yip, New York Times Oct. 19, 2019

I am a “baby killer.”
I stopped mid-step on my way into my office in Manhattan, and that thought scrolled through my brain yet again: “I am a baby killer.” It was an April day this year, nine weeks after I ended my child’s life.
I decided to keep walking.
That is a choice I have to make every day: Give up or keep moving. I have been choosing the latter, over and over again.
I consider myself “pro-life.” But that phrase is heavy with multiple meanings. Like “pro-choice.” I identify with both of those terms. I am a walking contradiction.

...Am I punishing myself by using that term? I don’t think so. I want people to know: I ended my child’s life. At 23 weeks and six days into my pregnancy, I had a “late term” abortion. When people ask, “How could you?” I reply that allowing her to live would have been a fate worse than death. Her diagnosis was not fatal, not incompatible with the bare mechanics of a living body. But it was incompatible with a fulfilling life. And that makes all the difference to me. That’s why I call myself “pro-life.”

(continued next post)
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She did kill her baby and it was wrong.

She did so because she didn’t want to spend time and energy caring for the child.

This is also not the normal profile for abortion, it is an extremely rare case being promoted to justify abortion on demand for any reason.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
No it’s not. I’ve been involved in the movement and I’ve never seen that except in pop culture written by leftists
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Abby Johnson (Pro-Choice speaker....subject of "Unplanned" movie...former PP employee) complained a lot about protesters. She complained of ongoing harassment - She called them "40 Days of Harrassment") and threats to herself and her family. Do you think she was telling the truth?
 
EMNofSeattle said:
She did kill her baby and it was wrong.

She did so because she didn’t want to spend time and energy caring for the child.

This is also not the normal profile for abortion, it is an extremely rare case being promoted to justify abortion on demand for any reason.
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Most pregnancies are done in the first trimester. That is the normal profile for abortion - do you think that is what pro-lifers portray when they protest?
 
year2late said:
In real life, I do not know any woman who has miscarried that the woman was not offered kindness and compassion.

...
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That has usually been my experience too.
I miscarried a malformed little one at about 20 weeks gestation.

I posted about my miscarriage several years ago on this forum.
I remember how shocked I was when nota bene implied that I deal with my miscarriage by thinking of my little malformed one “ as a monster”.

nota bene said:
I've had friends who miscarried and were told, "You should thank God--it would've been a monster." My friends were deeply hurt. If how you deal is thinking of your baby as a "monster" or never having really been a baby because it was deformed, well, whatever gets you through the night.
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minnie616 said:
I was not told ..."it would have been a monster." I was told it never would have survived outside the womb. I saw how deformed it was. I know it never would have been a baby/person.
And no I do NOT think of that fetus as a "monster'.
Monster is your word...not mine.
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That pregnacy was wanted and planned for but was not viable.

It was so malformed my doctor told me that pathology told him even if I carried longer it never would have survived birth.
It was so malformed that pathology could not even tell if was a boy or a girl.
 
nota bene said:
My feathers weren't ruffled; I was amused when you doubled down, and your inability to simply admit that you were mistaken is funny too.
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If you type in Coalition for Life-Wikipedia you will see I was not mistaken.

Coalition for Life does more than just stand and pray. They counsel; aggressively enough that many cities and states have enacted bubble zones around clinics. Anti-abortion protestors have taken the bubble zones to court. They have gotten the bubble zone distance to the door of the clinic reduced but not banned. Apparently not everybody is enthusiastic about being counseled.FIY; that's snark.
 
weaver2 said:
If you type in Coalition for Life-Wikipedia you will see I was not mistaken.

Coalition for Life does more than just stand and pray. They counsel; aggressively enough that many cities and states have enacted bubble zones around clinics. Anti-abortion protestors have taken the bubble zones to court. They have gotten the bubble zone distance to the door of the clinic reduced but not banned. Apparently not everybody is enthusiastic about being counseled.FIY; that's snark.
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Where has the Coalition for Life gone to court? Please identify states and cities that have "bubble zones" because of the Coalition for Life.
 
nota bene said:
Where has the Coalition for Life gone to court? Please identify states and cities that have "bubble zones" because of the Coalition for Life.
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Through is protests with 40 Days for Life, though, perhaps not your chapter. However, the US, Canada, the UK, and Australia have had cities, states or provinces activate bubble zones because of “counseling” by 40 Days protesters.


nota bene said:
To be clear, "40 Days for Life" is an outgrowth of the Coalition for Life. Members of that group stood and prayed every day of the year, sometimes only just one person standing there, for 15 years. The first "40 Days for Life" campaigns came later and were simply designated 40-day events in which a more organized and larger effort was made, and this came later.
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The Guardian Anti-abortion activists harassing women at UK clinics during Lent | UK news | The Guardian
Hardline religious activists, some of whom are part of a so-called “40 Days for Life” campaign, have been targeting women in increasing numbers at 10 clinics across the country in the run-up to Easter, the Guardian has been told.
Activists in Birmingham and Leicester are handing out leaflets with graphic images of foetuses and which suggest that having a termination is harder to overcome than rape and that women who have abortions are more likely to kill themselves.
Women in Cardiff have been delaying abortion appointments because they do not want to face the protesters, who have been accused of intimidating women by carrying cameras.
A protester in Manchester has been trying to show women models of foetuses in an attempt to prevent them from having abortions, and demonstrators in Leicester constructed a display of foetus dolls portraying different stages of development.
Demonstrators have called women visiting a clinic in Manchester “murderers”, and one protester became “verbally aggressive” when told by police not to approach people.

“This is not freedom of speech, it is harassment…Last month a council voted to introduce a buffer zone outside a clinic in Richmond, south-west London. Last year another buffer zone was voted through in Ealing, west London, to stop protesters coming within 100 metres of a clinic.

(laflet) produced by 40 Days for Life, carries an image of a foetus and graphic descriptions of methods of abortion. Without providing a reference, it states: “Research has linked abortion to increased risk of future miscarriage and breast cancer.”

Robert Colquhoun, 40 Days for Life’s director of international campaigns, said: “40 Days for Life organise peaceful, prayerful and legal vigils outside of abortion centres in the United Kingdom…… in a peaceful, loving and compassionate manner.”

11 states make it illegal to obstruct the entrance to a clinic: California, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, New York, North Carolina, Oregon and Washington.
3 states have Buffer Zone laws, CO MA, MT
6 cities have ordinances about distance Chicago IL, Buffalo NY, Rochester NY, Melbourne FL , Pittsburg PA, West Palm Beach FL
 
nota bene said:
Where has the Coalition for Life gone to court? Please identify states and cities that have "bubble zones" because of the Coalition for Life.
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Your chapter and your protests may be peaceful prayers but in general 40 Days to Life has had problems with harassment and intimidation.
 
weaver2 said:
Your chapter and your protests may be peaceful prayers but in general 40 Days to Life has had problems with harassment and intimidation.
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When Abby Johnson was working for PP, she called 40 Days of Life "40 Days of Harassment".

She lodged various complaints regarding protesters...up to an including threats involving her safety. As I recall, there were escorts involved at times bringing patients into Abby Johnson's Planned Parenthood. Of course now she works as a Pro-Life motivational speaker.:lamo
 
year2late said:
When Abby Johnson was working for PP, she called 40 Days of Life "40 Days of Harassment".

She lodged various complaints regarding protesters...up to an including threats involving her safety. As I recall, there were escorts involved at times bringing patients into Abby Johnson's Planned Parenthood. Of course now she works as a Pro-Life motivational speaker.:lamo
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Abby Johnson; now there's a piece'a work
 
nota bene said:
I can speak only to my own experience and what I know of the group most likely to be standing outside a PP clinic, and currently that would be Forty Days for Life. Shouting "baby killer" would not happen. The point is "Stand and pray." I did so for 15 years, and never once did such abuse occur.
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So none of your group killed any doctors? You do know you are still part of the "movement" that inspires certain people to take abortion doctors lives. You must bear some of the blame too. Shaming or terrifying women at such a stressful time is not what Jesus would do. You must know that.
 
weaver2 said:
Through is protests with 40 Days for Life, though, perhaps not your chapter. However, the US, Canada, the UK, and Australia have had cities, states or provinces activate bubble zones because of “counseling” by 40 Days protesters.






The Guardian Anti-abortion activists harassing women at UK clinics during Lent | UK news | The Guardian
Hardline religious activists, some of whom are part of a so-called “40 Days for Life” campaign, have been targeting women in increasing numbers at 10 clinics across the country in the run-up to Easter, the Guardian has been told.
Activists in Birmingham and Leicester are handing out leaflets with graphic images of foetuses and which suggest that having a termination is harder to overcome than rape and that women who have abortions are more likely to kill themselves.
Women in Cardiff have been delaying abortion appointments because they do not want to face the protesters, who have been accused of intimidating women by carrying cameras.
A protester in Manchester has been trying to show women models of foetuses in an attempt to prevent them from having abortions, and demonstrators in Leicester constructed a display of foetus dolls portraying different stages of development.
Demonstrators have called women visiting a clinic in Manchester “murderers”, and one protester became “verbally aggressive” when told by police not to approach people.

“This is not freedom of speech, it is harassment…Last month a council voted to introduce a buffer zone outside a clinic in Richmond, south-west London. Last year another buffer zone was voted through in Ealing, west London, to stop protesters coming within 100 metres of a clinic.

(laflet) produced by 40 Days for Life, carries an image of a foetus and graphic descriptions of methods of abortion. Without providing a reference, it states: “Research has linked abortion to increased risk of future miscarriage and breast cancer.”

Robert Colquhoun, 40 Days for Life’s director of international campaigns, said: “40 Days for Life organise peaceful, prayerful and legal vigils outside of abortion centres in the United Kingdom…… in a peaceful, loving and compassionate manner.”

11 states make it illegal to obstruct the entrance to a clinic: California, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, New York, North Carolina, Oregon and Washington.
3 states have Buffer Zone laws, CO MA, MT
6 cities have ordinances about distance Chicago IL, Buffalo NY, Rochester NY, Melbourne FL , Pittsburg PA, West Palm Beach FL
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Even a few protestors acting badly is a few too many, but you had to cross the pond to find examples, and even here this has been limited to a few people. The Leicester and Birmingham groups should be held to account. "Internationally, the 40 Days for Life campaign is considered an American-style protest. However, campaigns are led and run by local leaders who tailor the campaign to the local culture and circumstances." 40 Days for Life - Wikipedia

There was always a buffer zone, including a metal fence and shrubs, at the PP clinic in my community and also 24-hour surveillance cameras. I think buffer zones and cameras are great.
 
iguanaman said:
So none of your group killed any doctors? You do know you are still part of the "movement" that inspires certain people to take abortion doctors lives. You must bear some of the blame too. Shaming or terrifying women at such a stressful time is not what Jesus would do. You must know that.
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You clearly know absolutely nothing about the Coalition for Life and the 40 Days for Life campaigns which emerged from it. You list your location as Florida, and there are chapters there. Go to one of the clinics and stand around for 15 minutes, and then report back on your experience. Meanwhile, I will testify that in 15 years I never saw any woman terrified or shamed. I can understand your being pro-choice, but you're just making stuff up.
 
weaver2 said:
On what grounds would it be inhumane to abort a fetus that doctors knew had part of it's brain missing, other parts malformed and was destined, with certainty to suffer constant, painful seizures and perhaps be blind, deaf, mute and in a state unconscious of own existence.

How is abortion not the most humane choice. How is it right to bring a life into the world to live in constant pain and confusion because of someone's religious belief that abortion is wrong.
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If the mother, imagining herself as the fetus, would also have wanted to be aborted and not sentenced to life under the fetus's circumstances, then abortion in that case is moral. The simple 'golden rule' test.
 
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