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If personal morality take precedence over the Constitution we get bad law .

Angel said:
Ending a human life is the most serious action anyone can take. You stick with your dime-store psychology and comic-book philosophy and your political talking points, and leave the reasoning to those who can do it, yes?
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Ending a pregnancy is a deeply stressful and emotionally fraught decision. Nobody on any thread I have read says differently. Many men have, however, lectured women on the morality of abortion and pregnancy. Those are straightforward statements. Asshat psychology and philosophy aren't necessary when one is using plain English and stating facts.
 
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Iron_Merc said:
I will only say a couple things.
I agree that we need intelligent law on the books.
Banning abortion does not solve the root cause. I agree with this.
And really that's what we need to talk about. The root cause is the crucial debate of our time.
In my opinion its a matter of sexual promiscuity - and I guess this is a moral question in and of itself.
But can we agree that sexual promiscuity is a large contributing factor to the # of abortions we are seeing today?
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What got you to feeling so agreeable; autumn colors at Taughannock Falls, the peaceful overlook on Seneca Lake, the magic winding waters of Watkins Glen, the mesmerizing view of the Cornell crew on Cayuga Lake?
 
Angel said:
Abortion must remain legal on moral grounds, but abortion culture must be denounced, also on moral grounds.
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Keep your morals to yourself.
 
weaver2 said:
Ending a pregnancy is a deeply stressful and emotionally fraught decision. Nobody on any thread I have read says differently. Many men have, however, lectured women on the morality of abortion and pregnancy. Those are straightforward statements. Asshat psychology and philosophy aren't necessary when one is using plain English and stating facts.
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Ending a pregnant ought to be "a deeply stressful and emotionally fraught decision," and it used to be "a deeply stressful and emotionally fraught decision," but steadily, over the years, ever since 1973, under the influence of radical feminist propaganda, an abortion culture has developed and abortion has become routine. Just read the posts in our forum about what is being killed in abortion -- they're nauseatingly and self-righteously a-moral posts about an inhuman thing called a "Zef" which can be killed without compunction. And your own post here, spouting political talking points about sexism in order to justify taking human life, your own post illustrates the problematic state of affairs er have reached.
 
republican women will have abortions this very day.
 
Iron_Merc said:
I will only say a couple things.
I agree that we need intelligent law on the books.
Banning abortion does not solve the root cause. I agree with this.
And really that's what we need to talk about. The root cause is the crucial debate of our time.
In my opinion its a matter of sexual promiscuity - and I guess this is a moral question in and of itself.
But can we agree that sexual promiscuity is a large contributing factor to the # of abortions we are seeing today?
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No. Most women who abort are in a steady relationship with the man who got them pregnant. "Promiscuity" is not the issue.

About half of women who abort were using contraception, which shows that contraception can and does fail. Research into better contraception that can be used by more women (hormonal contraception has contra indications) would help, as would making the best methods of contraception more affordable.
 
weaver2 said:
What got you to feeling so agreeable; autumn colors at Taughannock Falls, the peaceful overlook on Seneca Lake, the magic winding waters of Watkins Glen, the mesmerizing view of the Cornell crew on Cayuga Lake?
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Yes, those things are beautiful for democrats and republicans alike. Its meant for all of us. I love the finger lake region of NY. And yes, Watkins Glen is great.

Specifically, driving through Saranac Lake and Lake Placid this time of year is hard to beat. One in a billion.
 
Scrabaholic said:
No. Most women who abort are in a steady relationship with the man who got them pregnant. "Promiscuity" is not the issue.

About half of women who abort were using contraception, which shows that contraception can and does fail. Research into better contraception that can be used by more women (hormonal contraception has contra indications) would help, as would making the best methods of contraception more affordable.
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I still think a fundamental shift needs to happen. We know that planned parenthood does not hold people accountable for sex. We know that some women actually use abortion as a form of birth control. This practice must stop and sexual promiscuity must be discouraged. I think our world works best when its just one man and one women together. If we can start assigning consequences to sex I guarantee abortion rate will drop like a stone.

At least that's my thoughts. And if I remember correctly, the overwhelming majority of women who get abortions are not married. This would support my premise that sexual promiscuity is in fact a major problem, and is encouraged by PP. This needs to stop. If sex was discouraged, again, abortion rates would plummet, IMO. That doesn't mean the right wing wants to be a buzz kill. Just that more consideration should be taken when entering into a sexual relationship.

At least that's my thought process on the matter....
 
Iron_Merc said:
Yes, those things are beautiful for democrats and republicans alike. Its meant for all of us. I love the finger lake region of NY. And yes, Watkins Glen is great.

Specifically, driving through Saranac Lake and Lake Placid this time of year is hard to beat. One in a billion.
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So, Plattsburg?
 
Iron_Merc said:
I still think a fundamental shift needs to happen. We know that planned parenthood does not hold people accountable for sex. We know that some women actually use abortion as a form of birth control. This practice must stop and sexual promiscuity must be discouraged. I think our world works best when its just one man and one women together. If we can start assigning consequences to sex I guarantee abortion rate will drop like a stone.

At least that's my thoughts. And if I remember correctly, the overwhelming majority of women who get abortions are not married. This would support my premise that sexual promiscuity is in fact a major problem, and is encouraged by PP. This needs to stop. If sex was discouraged, again, abortion rates would plummet, IMO. That doesn't mean the right wing wants to be a buzz kill. Just that more consideration should be taken when entering into a sexual relationship.

At least that's my thought process on the matter....
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Try that in your country and let us know what happens lol
america is already awesome at avoiding abortion actually, the number keep getting lower and its VERY impressive and we'll be keeping our freedom and rights thanks

If you truly want abortions to get lower you support the things many places are already doing

TRUE sex ed, optional starting at 6th grade, mandatory in 9th grade as part of health class

easy, cheaper and even free at times, access to birth control. Including investing in new technologies

improving social nets and healthcare for expecting mothers and families
- paid maternal/paternal leave
- coverage for prenatal and postnatal care
- social service job placement and education assistance
- child care assistance
- adoption assistance
- expansion of places like PP who arguable do more to prevent unwanted pregnancy that any org in the country.

improved laws and rights for mother and father to make the legality of responsibility, protections and assistance equal

thats just of the top of my head and those things will help way more that trying to restrict abortion or telling people what to do with their bodies.
 
Angel said:
Ending a pregnant ought to be "a deeply stressful and emotionally fraught decision," and it used to be "a deeply stressful and emotionally fraught decision," but steadily, over the years, ever since 1973, under the influence of radical feminist propaganda, an abortion culture has developed and abortion has become routine. Just read the posts in our forum about what is being killed in abortion -- they're nauseatingly and self-righteously a-moral posts about an inhuman thing called a "Zef" which can be killed without compunction. And your own post here, spouting political talking points about sexism in order to justify taking human life, your own post illustrates the problematic state of affairs er have reached.
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So at the heart of the philosophical pedantry of unexamined lives and moral catastrophies is a grumpy old man pissed off at uppity females. "Them'r rad-i-cal feminazis, them is. They don't have to stay pregnant no more. They ain't sufficiently humble. They tattle 'bout my innocent little butt pats. And, damn, they don’t keep they eyes on teh ground when I speak to 'em. "




“Toujours, cherchez la femme”. LOL
 
weaver2 said:
So at the heart of the philosophical pedantry of unexamined lives and moral catastrophies is a grumpy old man pissed off at uppity females. "Them'r rad-i-cal feminazis, them is. They don't have to stay pregnant no more. They ain't sufficiently humble. They tattle 'bout my innocent little butt pats. And, damn, they don’t keep they eyes on teh ground when I speak to 'em. "

“Toujours, cherchez la femme”. LOL
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This post is about as off and out of line as a reply post can be, and in an inexplicable regional accent to boot.
What's your purpose here?
 
Angel said:
This post is about as off and out of line as a reply post can be, and in an inexplicable regional accent to boot.
What's your purpose here?
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Women can make reproductive choices without consulting anyone. They demand and get pretty much any job they want. They get people fired for sexual harassment. They are "nauseatingly and self-righteously a-moral". They've used "political talking points" to "create a problematic state of moral catastrophe and live in an abortion culture of unexamined lives," and they call me pompous. They piss me off.

There fixed it for you.:mrgreen:
 
weaver2 said:
Women can make reproductive choices without consulting anyone. They demand and get pretty much any job they want. They get people fired for sexual harassment. They are "nauseatingly and self-righteously a-moral". They've used "political talking points" to "create a problematic state of moral catastrophe and live in an abortion culture of unexamined lives," and they call me pompous. They piss me off.

There fixed it for you.:mrgreen:
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Get that bee out of your bonnet, man. The sexism here is all yours.
 
Angel said:
The sexism here is all yours.
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The sexism is mine? I'm not the one who wrote this sexist screed,

"Ending a pregnant ought to be "a deeply stressful and emotionally fraught decision," and it used to be "a deeply stressful and emotionally fraught decision," but steadily, over the years, ever since 1973, under the influence of radical feminist propaganda, an abortion culture has developed and abortion has become routine. Just read the posts in our forum about what is being killed in abortion -- they're nauseatingly and self-righteously a-moral posts about an inhuman thing called a "Zef" which can be killed without compunction. And your own post here, spouting political talking points about sexism in order to justify taking human life, your own post illustrates the problematic state of affairs er have reached."
 
Angel said:
Abortion must remain legal on moral grounds, but abortion culture must be denounced, also on moral grounds.
Click to expand...


There is no such thing as "abortion culture" problem solved :)
 
weaver2 said:
So, Plattsburg?
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I've lived in Plattsburg before. My parents live in Saranac Lake. Im about 30 minutes from Albany... so its more city area but I still get north a lot... back to my old stomping grounds of SL...
 
weaver2 said:
The sexism is mine? I'm not the one who wrote this sexist screed,

"Ending a pregnant ought to be "a deeply stressful and emotionally fraught decision," and it used to be "a deeply stressful and emotionally fraught decision," but steadily, over the years, ever since 1973, under the influence of radical feminist propaganda, an abortion culture has developed and abortion has become routine. Just read the posts in our forum about what is being killed in abortion -- they're nauseatingly and self-righteously a-moral posts about an inhuman thing called a "Zef" which can be killed without compunction. And your own post here, spouting political talking points about sexism in order to justify taking human life, your own post illustrates the problematic state of affairs er have reached."
Click to expand...


There is a whole lot of assumed premise fallacy in your post.

1) there is no such thing as "abortion culture" ... most people do not like to think about it unless an accidental pregnancy happens.
2) In debating this topic for years - I have never heard anyone argue that the ZEF is "inhuman" What I have seen .. is a whole lot of folks on the religious right who can't seem to figure out the difference between the word "Human" as s descriptive adjective "Human cell, human life " and the noun "a human"

A human ZEF is Human ... just like every other human cell .. what the debate is over is whether or not it is "a human - a Homo Sapiens - A Person".

3) you then to on about "taking human life" - this is silly "see #2" Just because a heart cell is "human life" does not make that cell a human.

4) What you have not done - is make an actual argument which shows that your claim "its a human" is true.

Showing up to a debate on whether or not a ZEF is a human - and twirling around in a circle shouting "its a human .. its a human" - is not an argument for much.
 
thinkagain said:
There is a whole lot of assumed premise fallacy in your post.

1) there is no such thing as "abortion culture" ... most people do not like to think about it unless an accidental pregnancy happens.
2) In debating this topic for years - I have never heard anyone argue that the ZEF is "inhuman" What I have seen .. is a whole lot of folks on the religious right who can't seem to figure out the difference between the word "Human" as s descriptive adjective "Human cell, human life " and the noun "a human"

A human ZEF is Human ... just like every other human cell .. what the debate is over is whether or not it is "a human - a Homo Sapiens - A Person".

3) you then to on about "taking human life" - this is silly "see #2" Just because a heart cell is "human life" does not make that cell a human.

4) What you have not done - is make an actual argument which shows that your claim "its a human" is true.

Showing up to a debate on whether or not a ZEF is a human - and twirling around in a circle shouting "its a human .. its a human" - is not an argument for much.
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I didn't write this

"Ending a pregnant ought to be "a deeply stressful and emotionally fraught decision," and it used to be "a deeply stressful and emotionally fraught decision," but steadily, over the years, ever since 1973, under the influence of radical feminist propaganda, an abortion culture has developed and abortion has become routine. Just read the posts in our forum about what is being killed in abortion -- they're nauseatingly and self-righteously a-moral posts about an inhuman thing called a "Zef" which can be killed without compunction. And your own post here, spouting political talking points about sexism in order to justify taking human life, your own post illustrates the problematic state of affairs er have reached."

It was written by 'Angel'. He wrote it after he called me sexist. I was disputing the claim by reprinting his sexist rant. The words and phrases and reasoning you are complaining about were written by Angel. Complain to him. Good luck on getting an intelligible response.
 
Iron_Merc said:
I still think a fundamental shift needs to happen. We know that planned parenthood does not hold people accountable for sex. We know that some women actually use abortion as a form of birth control. This practice must stop and sexual promiscuity must be discouraged. I think our world works best when its just one man and one women together. If we can start assigning consequences to sex I guarantee abortion rate will drop like a stone.

At least that's my thoughts. And if I remember correctly, the overwhelming majority of women who get abortions are not married. This would support my premise that sexual promiscuity is in fact a major problem, and is encouraged by PP. This needs to stop. If sex was discouraged, again, abortion rates would plummet, IMO. That doesn't mean the right wing wants to be a buzz kill. Just that more consideration should be taken when entering into a sexual relationship.

At least that's my thought process on the matter....
Click to expand...

Being in a steady relationship w/ the man who got her pregnant does NOT make a woman "promiscuous". The attitude of "thou shalt not do the deed" doesn't work. There are far fewer teen pregnancies in states that have abstinence only education as opposed to comprehensive sex ed. Sex is normal and natural, as well as healthy. There's no reason why people should abstain if they do not wish to. One does not need to be married to engage in it. That is an antiquated idea that should have went out with the dark ages.
 
Scrabaholic said:
Being in a steady relationship w/ the man who got her pregnant does NOT make a woman "promiscuous". The attitude of "thou shalt not do the deed" doesn't work. There are far fewer teen pregnancies in states that have abstinence only education as opposed to comprehensive sex ed. Sex is normal and natural, as well as healthy. There's no reason why people should abstain if they do not wish to. One does not need to be married to engage in it. That is an antiquated idea that should have went out with the dark ages.
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/// If we start assigning consequences to sex //// <---- This from the guy who lives in a country where he enjoys the right to falsely accuse a former President of murdering 4 people with ZERO evidence without facing any 'consequences.' How about those priorities from a member of the political party that professes to keep their noses out of other's business ? :roll:
 
weaver2 said:
I didn't write this

"Ending a pregnant ought to be "a deeply stressful and emotionally fraught decision," and it used to be "a deeply stressful and emotionally fraught decision," but steadily, over the years, ever since 1973, under the influence of radical feminist propaganda, an abortion culture has developed and abortion has become routine. Just read the posts in our forum about what is being killed in abortion -- they're nauseatingly and self-righteously a-moral posts about an inhuman thing called a "Zef" which can be killed without compunction. And your own post here, spouting political talking points about sexism in order to justify taking human life, your own post illustrates the problematic state of affairs er have reached."

It was written by 'Angel'. He wrote it after he called me sexist. I was disputing the claim by reprinting his sexist rant. The words and phrases and reasoning you are complaining about were written by Angel. Complain to him. Good luck on getting an intelligible response.
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ahhh .. my bad .. Thx
 
Scrabaholic said:
Being in a steady relationship w/ the man who got her pregnant does NOT make a woman "promiscuous". The attitude of "thou shalt not do the deed" doesn't work. There are far fewer teen pregnancies in states that have abstinence only education as opposed to comprehensive sex ed. Sex is normal and natural, as well as healthy. There's no reason why people should abstain if they do not wish to. One does not need to be married to engage in it. That is an antiquated idea that should have went out with the dark ages.
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fake news
 
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