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[W:344:1201]License to Kill
- Thread starter Angel
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Re: License to Kill
You use "snippets" to make the process look horrific. Here's where your 'snippets' came from .
MATERIALS AND METHODS
Human FL (fetal liver)Tissue and Adult Hepatocytes
FLs (n = 15) were obtained from tissue donations after selective, therapeutically induced abortions at a gestational age of 18 to 22 weeks. The gestational age was calculated from the first day of the donor's last menstrual period. Tissues were collected after informed consent was obtained from each mother according to a protocol approved by the institutional research review board and the ethics committee. The donors agreed to the donations only after they agreed to the abortion procedure. Fetuses were collected and transferred to the current good manufacturing practice (cGMP) facility for human cell processing. All procedures were compliant with local and national legislation, regulations, and guidelines.30 The abortions associated with our protocol were performed by routine medical induction; the labor was induced by local prostaglandin administration. This procedure was medically indicated and was planned independently of our protocol. For this reason, our protocol required no alteration of the routine treatment.
All abortions were due to medical indications.
The only adaptation for our protocol was our acquisition of the fetuses for liver cell isolation from the gynecologists before they underwent the routine pathological examination; the fetuses went to the pathologists for routine analysis after liver removal. The specimens were placed into sterile bags containing University of Wisconsin liver storage solution, and each specimen was transported on ice immediately after the abortion to minimize the transfer time until cell isolation. Because we obtained the tissue from intact abdomens and removed the livers surgically under cGMP conditions, the tissue could be obtained in a sterile manner. The logistics of the transfer of the fetus to the cell isolation facility required no more than 1 hour, and our protocol excluded the use of cells that were isolated more than 6 hours prior to transplant. Cell fixation for the characterization of the cell populations was performed at time points comparable to those for clinical CT.
To compare the results of the characterization, we used adult liver cell preparations that were isolated from nontransplantable donor tissue and a HepG2 human hepatocellular carcinoma cell line.
Fetal Tissue Procurement for Perfusion via the Portal Vein
Upon its arrival at the cGMP facility, each fetus was weighed, rinsed with an iodine solution and placed onto a sterile surgical tray. The entire procurement procedure was performed in a sterile environment with a laminar air flow unit providing European Union GMP class A air quality. The abdominal and thoracic cavities were accessed through a sternotomy and a midline laparotomy with bilateral subcostal lateral extensions. Peritoneal swab cultures were initiated. The umbilical vein was identified within the umbilical cord and was cannulated with a 16‐ to 24‐gauge cannula according to the size of the vessel, and the cannula was ligated31 with 4‐0 silk. The liver's falciform and left coronary ligaments were sectioned, and the Arantius duct was approached by gentle lifting and rotation of the right and left lateral segments. Once it was identified and encircled with 4‐0 silk the Arantius duct was clamped with microclips Similarly, the hepatic hilus was encircled and clamped. The umbilical vein cannula was then connected to the tissue perfusion tubing the intrathoracic and infrahepatic inferior vena cava were sectioned, and the liver perfusion was started via gravity open‐loop perfusion. Immediately after the initiation of collagenase perfusion, the liver was completely mobilized by the sectioning of the right coronary ligament, the right diaphragm, and the hepatic hilus. A second swab culture was initiated, and the liver was then placed into a 100‐mm Petri dish so that the perfusion and digestion process could be continued by mechanical disruption with forceps and a cell scraper.
You use "snippets" to make the process look horrific. Here's where your 'snippets' came from .
MATERIALS AND METHODS
Human FL (fetal liver)Tissue and Adult Hepatocytes
FLs (n = 15) were obtained from tissue donations after selective, therapeutically induced abortions at a gestational age of 18 to 22 weeks. The gestational age was calculated from the first day of the donor's last menstrual period. Tissues were collected after informed consent was obtained from each mother according to a protocol approved by the institutional research review board and the ethics committee. The donors agreed to the donations only after they agreed to the abortion procedure. Fetuses were collected and transferred to the current good manufacturing practice (cGMP) facility for human cell processing. All procedures were compliant with local and national legislation, regulations, and guidelines.30 The abortions associated with our protocol were performed by routine medical induction; the labor was induced by local prostaglandin administration. This procedure was medically indicated and was planned independently of our protocol. For this reason, our protocol required no alteration of the routine treatment.
All abortions were due to medical indications.
The only adaptation for our protocol was our acquisition of the fetuses for liver cell isolation from the gynecologists before they underwent the routine pathological examination; the fetuses went to the pathologists for routine analysis after liver removal. The specimens were placed into sterile bags containing University of Wisconsin liver storage solution, and each specimen was transported on ice immediately after the abortion to minimize the transfer time until cell isolation. Because we obtained the tissue from intact abdomens and removed the livers surgically under cGMP conditions, the tissue could be obtained in a sterile manner. The logistics of the transfer of the fetus to the cell isolation facility required no more than 1 hour, and our protocol excluded the use of cells that were isolated more than 6 hours prior to transplant. Cell fixation for the characterization of the cell populations was performed at time points comparable to those for clinical CT.
To compare the results of the characterization, we used adult liver cell preparations that were isolated from nontransplantable donor tissue and a HepG2 human hepatocellular carcinoma cell line.
Fetal Tissue Procurement for Perfusion via the Portal Vein
Upon its arrival at the cGMP facility, each fetus was weighed, rinsed with an iodine solution and placed onto a sterile surgical tray. The entire procurement procedure was performed in a sterile environment with a laminar air flow unit providing European Union GMP class A air quality. The abdominal and thoracic cavities were accessed through a sternotomy and a midline laparotomy with bilateral subcostal lateral extensions. Peritoneal swab cultures were initiated. The umbilical vein was identified within the umbilical cord and was cannulated with a 16‐ to 24‐gauge cannula according to the size of the vessel, and the cannula was ligated31 with 4‐0 silk. The liver's falciform and left coronary ligaments were sectioned, and the Arantius duct was approached by gentle lifting and rotation of the right and left lateral segments. Once it was identified and encircled with 4‐0 silk the Arantius duct was clamped with microclips Similarly, the hepatic hilus was encircled and clamped. The umbilical vein cannula was then connected to the tissue perfusion tubing the intrathoracic and infrahepatic inferior vena cava were sectioned, and the liver perfusion was started via gravity open‐loop perfusion. Immediately after the initiation of collagenase perfusion, the liver was completely mobilized by the sectioning of the right coronary ligament, the right diaphragm, and the hepatic hilus. A second swab culture was initiated, and the liver was then placed into a 100‐mm Petri dish so that the perfusion and digestion process could be continued by mechanical disruption with forceps and a cell scraper.
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Re: License to Kill
You are wrong to suggest right wing groups have no right to quote government and educational sources.
You are wrong to suggest right wing groups have no right to quote government and educational sources.
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Re: License to Kill
You are misrepresenting what a late term abortion is about. If it is healthy enough to cry when coming out of the woman and is healthy and complete no abortion will take place.
Late term abortions are done to save the woman's life (and if the fetus is old enough to survive I am pretty sure no abortion will take place but an emergency cesarean. Late term abortions are rare and done in case of severe fetal abnormality or to save the mother's life.
You are misrepresenting what a late term abortion is about. If it is healthy enough to cry when coming out of the woman and is healthy and complete no abortion will take place.
Late term abortions are done to save the woman's life (and if the fetus is old enough to survive I am pretty sure no abortion will take place but an emergency cesarean. Late term abortions are rare and done in case of severe fetal abnormality or to save the mother's life.
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Re: [W:344]License to Kill
The fetal liver tissue was obtained by consent from women at 18 to 22 weeks pregnant who had to have a medical abortion. A post mortem dissection by a pathologist is required by law for all medical abortions. The lab doing the fetal liver transplant research got legal permission to receive the fetus first before the pathologist dissected it so they could extract the liver. The rest of the article describes the standard protocol for sterile removal of tissue so the research isn't compromised by bacterial (germs) contamination.
What part of this scenario don't you understand or is in your opinion illegal, unethical, unChristian or cruel?
The fetal liver tissue was obtained by consent from women at 18 to 22 weeks pregnant who had to have a medical abortion. A post mortem dissection by a pathologist is required by law for all medical abortions. The lab doing the fetal liver transplant research got legal permission to receive the fetus first before the pathologist dissected it so they could extract the liver. The rest of the article describes the standard protocol for sterile removal of tissue so the research isn't compromised by bacterial (germs) contamination.
What part of this scenario don't you understand or is in your opinion illegal, unethical, unChristian or cruel?
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Re: License to Kill
Perhaps he believes that since so many of the pro-life supporters swallow this crap whole, that we dont question it either?
He'd be mistaken...again.
Perhaps he believes that since so many of the pro-life supporters swallow this crap whole, that we dont question it either?
He'd be mistaken...again.
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Re: License to Kill
Life News is not a government publication.And it sure as hell isn't educational
Life News is not a government publication.And it sure as hell isn't educational
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Re: License to Kill
Marke, you shouldn't be posting anything about abortion, women, pregnancy, research, medical procedures, the law or ethics. You don't understand any of it. Just go back to your men's church group and tsk-tsk about all the horrible things women and doctors do if it makes you feel superior, but, for the sake of your own sanity quit posting your Life News drivel telling us how wanton women sell their souls and their fetuses to the devil to be washed in iodine and then cut into salable parts and sold to evil research labs.
Marke, you shouldn't be posting anything about abortion, women, pregnancy, research, medical procedures, the law or ethics. You don't understand any of it. Just go back to your men's church group and tsk-tsk about all the horrible things women and doctors do if it makes you feel superior, but, for the sake of your own sanity quit posting your Life News drivel telling us how wanton women sell their souls and their fetuses to the devil to be washed in iodine and then cut into salable parts and sold to evil research labs.
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Re: License to Kill
Life News quotes from public sources which are respected by nearly everyone. You do nothing to dismiss the report on the basis of your disrespectful opinions about Life News, if you do not refute the government and educational sources quoted by Life News.
Life News quotes from public sources which are respected by nearly everyone. You do nothing to dismiss the report on the basis of your disrespectful opinions about Life News, if you do not refute the government and educational sources quoted by Life News.
AProudLefty
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Re: License to Kill
Have at it!
Cleverbot.com - a clever bot - speak to an AI with some Actual Intelligence?
A Cleverbot sounds adorable. Can we keep him? Please
Have at it!
Cleverbot.com - a clever bot - speak to an AI with some Actual Intelligence?
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Re: License to Kill
I’m glad that the views of folks like marke, Angel, and Mashmont continue to be considered to be on the fringe of modern society.
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Re: License to Kill
The Life News article written by a convicted criminal, David Dalieden, takes phrases and single words out of context from government and medical documents and uses them to convey disgust and horror about perfectly legitimate, humane and honorable research.
Here's the section from Daleiden's article that seems to be giving you the most trouble:
They even washed the babies: “Upon its arrival at the cGMP facility, each fetus was weighed, 1rinsed with an iodine solution, and placed onto a sterile surgical tray.” Then they cut their livers out.
Gerlach et al. first published their work in 2012 after he “designed and coordinated the program” and “developed the methods” for liver harvesting. Gerlach’s colleagues published a more detailed description of the technique in 2017, crediting him as its originator:2 “We developed a five-step in vivo perfusion method by umbilical vein cannulation to isolate liver cells from fetuses at the late second trimester.”
3In vivo, of course, means “in the living.” To a medical certainty, a 5-month-old fetus aborted intact by labor induction is alive at the time of delivery. Feticides such as digoxin cannot be used in a harvesting case, and the whole point of the Gerlach protocol is to obtain4 fresh, live, clean liver cells for transplantation minimizing time without circulation
1. Yes washed to keep the tissue sterile since it is going to be transplanted into a human; Yes, placed on a sterile tray. It's a medical lab doing a transplant, where else would you place the fetus?
2.In vivo; tissue that is still living not dead. Live tissue is the only kind that can be transplanted.
3. In vivo does not mean the fetus is living or was alive. It simply means the tissue is not dead.
4. "minimizing time without circulation" in other words the cells within the tissue are still living but blood is not circulating. The liver tissue is not, as you think because Dalieden implied, extracted from living fetuses.
THERE IS NOTHING HORRIBLE OR ILLEGAL OR UNETHICAL GOING ON HERE. A WOMAN HAS GIVEN HER CONSENT AND DONATED A MALFORMED FETUS THAT HAD TO BE ABORTED IN THE LATE 2ND TRIMESTER, TO BE USED IN LIVER TRANSPLANT RESEARCH. NO PROCEDURES WERE PERFORMED ON A LIVE BABY
What do you not understand about this?
The Life News article written by a convicted criminal, David Dalieden, takes phrases and single words out of context from government and medical documents and uses them to convey disgust and horror about perfectly legitimate, humane and honorable research.
Here's the section from Daleiden's article that seems to be giving you the most trouble:
They even washed the babies: “Upon its arrival at the cGMP facility, each fetus was weighed, 1rinsed with an iodine solution, and placed onto a sterile surgical tray.” Then they cut their livers out.
Gerlach et al. first published their work in 2012 after he “designed and coordinated the program” and “developed the methods” for liver harvesting. Gerlach’s colleagues published a more detailed description of the technique in 2017, crediting him as its originator:2 “We developed a five-step in vivo perfusion method by umbilical vein cannulation to isolate liver cells from fetuses at the late second trimester.”
3In vivo, of course, means “in the living.” To a medical certainty, a 5-month-old fetus aborted intact by labor induction is alive at the time of delivery. Feticides such as digoxin cannot be used in a harvesting case, and the whole point of the Gerlach protocol is to obtain4 fresh, live, clean liver cells for transplantation minimizing time without circulation
1. Yes washed to keep the tissue sterile since it is going to be transplanted into a human; Yes, placed on a sterile tray. It's a medical lab doing a transplant, where else would you place the fetus?
2.In vivo; tissue that is still living not dead. Live tissue is the only kind that can be transplanted.
3. In vivo does not mean the fetus is living or was alive. It simply means the tissue is not dead.
4. "minimizing time without circulation" in other words the cells within the tissue are still living but blood is not circulating. The liver tissue is not, as you think because Dalieden implied, extracted from living fetuses.
THERE IS NOTHING HORRIBLE OR ILLEGAL OR UNETHICAL GOING ON HERE. A WOMAN HAS GIVEN HER CONSENT AND DONATED A MALFORMED FETUS THAT HAD TO BE ABORTED IN THE LATE 2ND TRIMESTER, TO BE USED IN LIVER TRANSPLANT RESEARCH. NO PROCEDURES WERE PERFORMED ON A LIVE BABY
What do you not understand about this?
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Re: License to Kill
This is the biggest pile I've read so far today. And I've read some pretty big piles.
This is the biggest pile I've read so far today. And I've read some pretty big piles.
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Re: License to Kill
Why is it you focus on all the piles of lies people like David Daleiden and sites like Life News are spewing out? There are actually abortion topics that needs to be addressed; why can't you focus on them instead of the meaningless crap you post here? Is it just salacious interest; the gorier the better for you?
Why is it you focus on all the piles of lies people like David Daleiden and sites like Life News are spewing out? There are actually abortion topics that needs to be addressed; why can't you focus on them instead of the meaningless crap you post here? Is it just salacious interest; the gorier the better for you?
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Re: License to Kill
Life Site News frequently posts articles without scrutinizing the material. Just a basic sniff test would be a good start. There was an article about Stem a press selling beating hearts ....and people here gobbled it up as if was fact. Then a lot of their stats are nonsense or very old. Even someone like Abby Johnson lied and a basic look at here Facebook would show that she prided herself on her work at PP until her boss started disciplining her. Was it not just enough to be active in a cause without making up a fake story?
When a site consistently does not scrutinize the most wild stories....how do you expect us to believe them on the little stuff?
I mean seriously... selling beating hearts from aborted fetuses?
Life Site News frequently posts articles without scrutinizing the material. Just a basic sniff test would be a good start. There was an article about Stem a press selling beating hearts ....and people here gobbled it up as if was fact. Then a lot of their stats are nonsense or very old. Even someone like Abby Johnson lied and a basic look at here Facebook would show that she prided herself on her work at PP until her boss started disciplining her. Was it not just enough to be active in a cause without making up a fake story?
When a site consistently does not scrutinize the most wild stories....how do you expect us to believe them on the little stuff?
I mean seriously... selling beating hearts from aborted fetuses?
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Re: License to Kill
Fascinating. Not being facetious in the least. If you take the name at face value, it legit sounds like a 21st century Tamagochi.
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Re: License to Kill
The sunk cost and Concorde effects: Are humans less rational than lower animals?
Arkes, Hal R.,Ayton, Peter
Arkes, H. R., & Ayton, P. (1999). The sunk cost and Concorde effects: Are humans less rational than lower animals? Psychological Bulletin, 125(5), 591–600. https://doi.org/10.1037/0033-2909.125.5.591
The sunk cost effect is a maladaptive economic behavior that is manifested in a greater tendency to continue an endeavor once an investment in money, effort, or time has been made. The Concorde fallacy is another name for the sunk cost effect, except that the former term has been applied strictly to lower animals, whereas the latter has been applied solely to humans. The authors contend that there are no unambiguous instances of the Concorde fallacy in lower animals and also present evidence that young children, when placed in an economic situation akin to a sunk cost one, exhibit more normatively correct behavior than do adults. These findings pose an enigma: Why do adult humans commit an error contrary to the normative cost–benefit rules of choice, whereas children and phylogenetically humble organisms do not? The authors attempt to show that this paradoxical state of affairs is due to humans' overgeneralization of the "Don't waste" rule.
The sunk cost and Concorde effects: Are humans less rational than lower animals?
Arkes, Hal R.,Ayton, Peter
Arkes, H. R., & Ayton, P. (1999). The sunk cost and Concorde effects: Are humans less rational than lower animals? Psychological Bulletin, 125(5), 591–600. https://doi.org/10.1037/0033-2909.125.5.591
The sunk cost effect is a maladaptive economic behavior that is manifested in a greater tendency to continue an endeavor once an investment in money, effort, or time has been made. The Concorde fallacy is another name for the sunk cost effect, except that the former term has been applied strictly to lower animals, whereas the latter has been applied solely to humans. The authors contend that there are no unambiguous instances of the Concorde fallacy in lower animals and also present evidence that young children, when placed in an economic situation akin to a sunk cost one, exhibit more normatively correct behavior than do adults. These findings pose an enigma: Why do adult humans commit an error contrary to the normative cost–benefit rules of choice, whereas children and phylogenetically humble organisms do not? The authors attempt to show that this paradoxical state of affairs is due to humans' overgeneralization of the "Don't waste" rule.
Angel
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CullingVoices
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Re: License to Kill
Can you point to any examples of where a healthy viable baby was pulled out of a woman and killed in the last trimester?
Can you point to any examples of where a healthy viable baby was pulled out of a woman and killed in the last trimester?
Angel
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Angel
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Re: License to Kill
The view that men and women are free moral agents morally responsible for their moral choices -- you're glad this view is "considered to be on the fringe of modern society"?
Angel
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Re: License to Kill
Let's try to steer this baby back to the topic, shall we?
The argument begins:
All human beings are free moral agents.
Women are human beings.
Therefore, women are free moral agents.
Any objections so far?
Let's try to steer this baby back to the topic, shall we?
The argument begins:
All human beings are free moral agents.
Women are human beings.
Therefore, women are free moral agents.
Any objections so far?