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[W:344:1201]License to Kill

Re: License to Kill

The preservation of life, as hardwired in the animal instinct for self-preservation, is the primary value, objective and universal.
All of morality originates in this primary objective value: Life.

Don't you think women deserve to respond to their own self preservation instincts? Or, when faced with injury or death, should they consult a "holy" man first?

The idea of life being sacred is such an absurd contradiction to human history. We wouldn't be having this conversation in the USA if magical thinking weren't so popular.

The most violent, religious people always think their faith is about peace. How dumb do think the rest of us are not to notice how little peace the gods have actually inspired?
 
Re: License to Kill

The Choice

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Nature or Vulture
 
Re: License to Kill


Yes we know you shared your meaningless feelings that biology does but since we asked for facts nobody cares about your feelings and illogical opinions

Fact remains abortion =/= murder, Abortion =/= licenses to kill and Morals are subjective

Can ANYBODY post ONE fact proving otherwise please . . anybody . .one fact? thanks!
 
Re: License to Kill

Uh-huh. Morality is subjective because of the definition of "subjective." We've heard this endless nonsense of yours much too long now. You should know better.

you call it nonsense but yet that fact destroys your false claims at each and every turn so tell us who should know better again?

until you can refute it or simply make a post based on honesty and integrity and admit, your issue will continue to happen
 
Re: License to Kill

No one has to know anything more about pregnancy than a child can understand, that another human life is growing inside mommy, in order to understand that 50 million abortions in as many years represents a moral red flag.

Well perhaps children need to know that miscarriages happen in many pregnancies even in the healthiest of women .;)

I am pragmatic. I fight for access to long term high quality contraception. That helps prevent abortion most consistently - but the women most at risk for abortion are too poor to afford the hefty price tag (800 plus). They are too rich for Medicaid and too poor for self pay.

I know you value making this a moral or philosophical issue....but woman who race severe hardship due to pregnancy are desperate- it inconvenienced. The best fight is prevention of pregnancy.
 
Re: License to Kill

Don't you think women deserve to respond to their own self preservation instincts? Or, when faced with injury or death, should they consult a "holy" man first?

The idea of life being sacred is such an absurd contradiction to human history. We wouldn't be having this conversation in the USA if magical thinking weren't so popular.

The most violent, religious people always think their faith is about peace. How dumb do think the rest of us are not to notice how little peace the gods have actually inspired?

His post and argument on 'biology' is a fail anyway:

The great thing is, I did go thru his links about morality being objective...and they were almost all based on one man's admitted 'belief' based on his research on other animals. AND even he never said that morals were objective, he just said he believed that some animals demonstrate a type of morality. Nothing about it being objective...it's still subjective in how those animals conceive of and use 'their' morals. :roll:
 
Re: License to Kill

The preservation of life, as hardwired in the animal instinct for self-preservation, is the primary value, objective and universal.
All of morality originates in this primary objective value: Life.

The original question: "Why is abortion morally wrong?" is not answered by stating that preservation; self or otherwise is the primary value, objective or universal. A fetus has no primary value. It does not preserve itself. When the going gets tough nature aborts a fetus and parents sacrifice to preserve the lives of the already born.
 
Re: License to Kill

The original question: "Why is abortion morally wrong?" is not answered by stating that preservation; self or otherwise is the primary value, objective or universal.
You don't appear to have followed the thread discussion very well. This biology business I posted replied to the stupid refrain that morality is subjective.
A fetus has no primary value. It does not preserve itself. When the going gets tough nature aborts a fetus and parents sacrifice to preserve the lives of the already born.
I think you know by now what I think you can do with your pro-abortion talking points.
 
Re: License to Kill

Well perhaps children need to know that miscarriages happen in many pregnancies even in the healthiest of women .;)

I am pragmatic. I fight for access to long term high quality contraception. That helps prevent abortion most consistently - but the women most at risk for abortion are too poor to afford the hefty price tag (800 plus). They are too rich for Medicaid and too poor for self pay.

I know you value making this a moral or philosophical issue....but woman who race severe hardship due to pregnancy are desperate- it inconvenienced. The best fight is prevention of pregnancy.
I have no quarrel with anything in this post of yours. Preventing pregnancy certainly avoids the moral crisis.
I believe you say somewhere that you're a nurse working in the field of reproduction. That's admirable.
And your pragmatic focus on contraception seems, well, practical and sound.

One correction to the post, however: I am not "making this a moral or philosophical issue" -- abortion is a moral and philosophical issue. My whole quarrel with "abortion culture" is that it denies this.
 
Re: License to Kill

You don't appear to have followed the thread discussion very well. This biology business I posted replied to the stupid refrain that morality is subjective.

I think you know by now what I think you can do with your pro-abortion talking points.

I followed the thread. Morality is subjective. Pro-choice does not mean pro-abortion. Each person is free to decide what they think about abortion. And sometimes abortion is the most humane action possible.
 
Re: License to Kill

I followed the thread.
I repeat: that doesn't appear to be the case, based on your posts.
Morality is subjective.
Sure it's subjective -- because you and Quag and Lursa and AGENT J say it's subjective.
Pro-choice does not mean pro-abortion.
See what I mean? If you followed the thread with the least bit of understanding, you'd know better than to post such nonsense to me: I am pro-choice and anti-abortion.
Each person is free to decide what they think about abortion. And sometimes abortion is the most humane action possible.
A platitude, followed by a talking point. Why do you post?
 
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Re: License to Kill

I repeat: that doesn't appear to be the case, based on your posts.

Sure it's subjective -- because you and Quag and Lursa and AGENT J say it's subjective.

See what I mean? If you followed the thread with the least bit of understanding, you'd know better than to post such nonsense to me: I am pro-choice and anti-abortion.

A platitude, followed by a talking point. Why do you post?

Morals are subjective because facts, reality, and definitions make it that way.

When you can prove otherwise, by all means, please let us know, thanks!
 
Re: License to Kill

Morals are subjective because facts, reality, and definitions make it that way.

When you can prove otherwise, by all means, please let us know, thanks!
Another foolish, unresponsive, obliviously assertory post. Why post at all, man?
 
Re: License to Kill

1.)Another foolish, unresponsive, obliviously assertory post.
2.)Why post at all, man?

1.) Another dodge
2.) because i love posting facts and exposes lies and false claims

The OP claims a morality argument and that abortion is a license to kill. boitht those claims have been proved factually wrong. Please let us know wehn that changes. Thanks
 
Re: License to Kill

1.) Another dodge
2.) because i love posting facts and exposes lies and false claims

The OP claims a morality argument and that abortion is a license to kill. boitht those claims have been proved factually wrong. Please let us know wehn that changes. Thanks
Bull**** post.
 
Re: License to Kill

Bull**** post.

Proof? links? Facts?

please present them now to support your claim. Until then

FACTS:
Abortion =/= license to kill
Morals = subjective

let us know when that changes thanks!
 
Re: License to Kill

Proof? links? Facts?

please present them now to support your claim. Until then

FACTS:
Abortion =/= license to kill
Morals = subjective

let us know when that changes thanks!
All has been provided, and unless there's a literacy problem involved in these stupid posts, some part of you knows that all has been provided.
 
Re: License to Kill

The truth, Angel?

The truth is that you need to be born to be killed.

I also find it a bit odd that you call out women specifically here, as if no man ever played a part in the decision making to have an abortion, or performed an abortion.

I think this falls under the category of you do you, and we do we. This is a weird post for you.

If a baby, fetus isn't alive until it is born then how does the state try a person for causing the death of a pregnant mothers child while in the womb?
Unborn Victims of Violence Act - Wikipedia
 
Re: License to Kill

I have no quarrel with anything in this post of yours. Preventing pregnancy certainly avoids the moral crisis.
I believe you say somewhere that you're a nurse working in the field of reproduction. That's admirable.
And your pragmatic focus on contraception seems, well, practical and sound.

One correction to the post, however: I am not "making this a moral or philosophical issue" -- abortion is a moral and philosophical issue. My whole quarrel with "abortion culture" is that it denies this.

I am a critical care RN since 1983.

I do not work in the field of reproduction, but it was my own pregnancy that made me realize who difficult and life threatening pregnancy can be if you do not have decent medical, social, and financial resources.

You talk about moral issues. You give the appearance of the fetus being of primary concern. Where do the concerns of the pregnant woman and her family come into play?

Most women who choose abortion are using birth control and already have a born child at home they are responsible for and are struggling to make ends meet and have crappy access to health care. So the woman who chooses abortion would have faced riskier pregnancy due to crappy access to health care (Medicaid in many areas totally sucks for prenatal care). She faces WORSE economic struggles if she needs to take a lot of time off due to pregnancy - this at the very least worsens her housing insecurity. Then the child she already is responsible for.....if something happens to her.....do you want to talk about why that she should fear for that child if foster care becomes he fate?

And waiting until you have complications to decide to abort can be a fool's errand (especially if you are poorly resourced). When WOULD it be moral in your mind for her to abort? Early complications? Realistically waiting until you are hemodynamically unstable in some common severe maternal complications can be too late. And again, I was lucky I felt great. It was a planned prenatal visit where my MD saw a very subtle sign. MY lab work showed how bad things were. It is important because many women who are under resourced would skip appointments if they felt fine - because well.....rent. I had the LUXURY of following all my MD orders because I had good personal, medical, financial resources. I also had the luxury knowing no one else would be at risk if something worse happened to me.

Morality is subjective and dependent on personal beliefs.

Let me ask you this. My child had issues requiring MD visits and my attention. At the same time my mother ended up with multiple medical issues and she ended up living with me. I knew 911 paramedics by name for awhile. :lamo If I had become pregnant....it would be clear that my mother and my child would suffer - and frankly my resources (except medical) had been decimated by my first pregnancy. Would it be moral for me to have an early abortion...to assure the life and well being of my mother and child? I know the answer do you?



None of your business. It would be my decision to decide how to decide the morality of my personal situation.
 
Re: License to Kill

I am a critical care RN since 1983.

I do not work in the field of reproduction, but it was my own pregnancy that made me realize who difficult and life threatening pregnancy can be if you do not have decent medical, social, and financial resources.

You talk about moral issues. You give the appearance of the fetus being of primary concern. Where do the concerns of the pregnant woman and her family come into play?

Most women who choose abortion are using birth control and already have a born child at home they are responsible for and are struggling to make ends meet and have crappy access to health care. So the woman who chooses abortion would have faced riskier pregnancy due to crappy access to health care (Medicaid in many areas totally sucks for prenatal care). She faces WORSE economic struggles if she needs to take a lot of time off due to pregnancy - this at the very least worsens her housing insecurity. Then the child she already is responsible for.....if something happens to her.....do you want to talk about why that she should fear for that child if foster care becomes he fate?

And waiting until you have complications to decide to abort can be a fool's errand (especially if you are poorly resourced). When WOULD it be moral in your mind for her to abort? Early complications? Realistically waiting until you are hemodynamically unstable in some common severe maternal complications can be too late. And again, I was lucky I felt great. It was a planned prenatal visit where my MD saw a very subtle sign. MY lab work showed how bad things were. It is important because many women who are under resourced would skip appointments if they felt fine - because well.....rent. I had the LUXURY of following all my MD orders because I had good personal, medical, financial resources. I also had the luxury knowing no one else would be at risk if something worse happened to me.

Morality is subjective and dependent on personal beliefs.

Let me ask you this. My child had issues requiring MD visits and my attention. At the same time my mother ended up with multiple medical issues and she ended up living with me. I knew 911 paramedics by name for awhile. :lamo If I had become pregnant....it would be clear that my mother and my child would suffer - and frankly my resources (except medical) had been decimated by my first pregnancy. Would it be moral for me to have an early abortion...to assure the life and well being of my mother and child? I know the answer do you?



None of your business. It would be my decision to decide how to decide the morality of my personal situation.
If you've read and not just reacted to my arguments in this and previous threads, you'd know that I am 100% pro-choice in this matter. You are a free moral agent responsible for the moral choices you make. You have a moral right to have all the abortions you decide to have.
 
Re: License to Kill

You don't appear to have followed the thread discussion very well. This biology business I posted replied to the stupid refrain that morality is subjective.
.

If you've read and not just reacted to my arguments in this and previous threads, you'd know that I am 100% pro-choice in this matter. You are a free moral agent responsible for the moral choices you make. You have a moral right to have all the abortions you decide to have.


Explain. In one post you indicate that it is a "stupid refrain" about the subjectivity of morality. In another you indicate "I" have the moral right to these decisions - then why give us the idea that morals are not subjective?
 
Re: License to Kill

All has been provided
2.) and unless there's a literacy problem involved in these stupid posts, some part of you knows that all has been provided.

1.) correct all YOU have has been provided and it failed and was based on your feelings and zero facts. You have nothing else
2.) nope its our literacy that allows us to clearly see that all you have provided fails and facts destroyed it, its what makes this so entertaining!!!! But we are not asking for all you have which is NOTHING, We asked if you have and FACTS to support your claim . . which 500 posts deep proves you do not. :shrug:

So here we are in the same spot
FACTS:
Abortion =/= license to kill
Morals = subjective

If you or ANYBODY can prove otherwise, please do so now, thanks!
 
Re: License to Kill

Explain. In one post you indicate that it is a "stupid refrain" about the subjectivity of morality. In another you indicate "I" have the moral right to these decisions - then why give us the idea that morals are not subjective?
Morality is objective. Moral judgments are subjective. You and I are free moral agents. We have a right to make our own moral decisions.

I've clearly stated this position on numerous occasions.
 
Re: License to Kill

Bad Faith in Action
1.) correct all YOU have has been provided and it failed and was based on your feelings and zero facts. You have nothing else
2.) nope its our literacy that allows us to clearly see that all you have provided fails and facts destroyed it, its what makes this so entertaining!!!! But we are not asking for all you have which is NOTHING, We asked if you have and FACTS to support your claim . . which 500 posts deep proves you do not. :shrug:

So here we are in the same spot
FACTS:
Abortion =/= license to kill
Morals = subjective

If you or ANYBODY can prove otherwise, please do so now, thanks!
"Buzz, buzz."
 
Re: License to Kill

Bad Faith in Action

"Buzz, buzz."

FACTS:
Abortion =/= license to kill
Morals = subjective

If you or ANYBODY can prove otherwise, please do so now, thanks!
 
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