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[W:344:1201]License to Kill

Re: License to Kill

weaver2 said:
Agreed, and the life parents will die preserving are the already born, not the yet to be born. The women that abort because another child will take limited resources away from already born children is answering the instinct to preserve life, life existing outside the womb. It's a law of nature that animals don't let die the offspring in which they have invested protection, resources, time and instruction in order to preserve a life in which nothing has been invested.

Preserving a fetus at all cost no matter what the cost to the living family is not encoded into our DNA it is political propaganda originating with Jerry Falwell and Paul Weyrich when they started using abortion as the litmus test, in 1978, for electing political figures that would support the conservative Christian agenda.
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Well spoken.
 
Re: License to Kill

weaver2 said:
Agreed, and the life parents will die preserving are the already born, not the yet to be born. The women that abort because another child will take limited resources away from already born children is answering the instinct to preserve life, life existing outside the womb. It's a law of nature that animals don't let die the offspring in which they have invested protection, resources, time and instruction in order to preserve a life in which nothing has been invested.

Preserving a fetus at all cost no matter what the cost to the living family is not encoded into our DNA it is political propaganda originating with Jerry Falwell and Paul Weyrich when they started using abortion as the litmus test, in 1978, for electing political figures that would support the conservative Christian agenda.
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You're a bit off here. The value of life as per my post is self-preservation. Talking-point logorrhea is a bitch, though. Same thing happened in your sexism post/sound bite, which I left to reveal itself without reply.
 
Re: License to Kill

Angel said:
I was putting it mildly, Madam. The pro-abortion/pro-choice view has been put out of its misery by my arguments. I'm not crowing either. Any thinking ninth grader could blow that nonsense out of the water. You and Lursa and years2late have been shut down. That you all will carry on, business as usual, is merely a testament to the lack of critical thinking behind your view, and to your bad faith of course.
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It is funny that you claim such nonsense when you lack the simple basics of knowledge of pregnancy.

You seemed to lack knowledge that many KNOWN pregnancies end in miscarriage.

By the way....I am pro-choice. Not pro-abortion. As an individual....I do not believe in abortion. I was put to the test TWICE on the same pregnancy. Once with an initially unwanted pregnancy. The second time (same pregnancy) when abortion was an option because I was suffering from several major complications.

I support a woman's right to chose whatever is best for her particular situation. I was well resourced. I knew I would have the best medical care. I knew my financial and social resources would carry me through pregnancy.
 
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Re: License to Kill

Angel said:
Did you miss the quotation marks around "morals"? I was quoting you.
Here is the exchange with your use of the word bolded:


What do you mean by "morals"?
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Here is the relevant exchange
Angel said:
My moral intuitions tell me that the elective killing of human beings at a rate of a million per year is immoral. What do your moral intuitions tell you?
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Quag said:
Stating that your morals are based on intuition is admitting they are subjective.
Now if there are only 500K a year does it become moral? How about 500? or 5? or 1? What number is required before it becomes immoral?
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It is your moral intuition we are talking about
 
Re: License to Kill

Angel said:
Preservation of life is the fundamental value, encoded in our DNA. That primary value is the objective principle of morality.
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There is no objective principle of morality as morality is subjective
 
Re: License to Kill

Quag said:
There is no objective principle of morality as morality is subjective
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And situational to do with one's own unwanted pregnancy among many who are against a woman's right of choice. They can re-adhere to their own code of that particular moral "principle" afterwards.
 
Re: License to Kill

Angel said:
I was putting it mildly, Madam. The pro-abortion/pro-choice view has been put out of its misery by my arguments. I'm not crowing either. Any thinking ninth grader could blow that nonsense out of the water. You and Lursa and years2late have been shut down. That you all will carry on, business as usual, is merely a testament to the lack of critical thinking behind your view, and to your bad faith of course.
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You have not done any of that.
 
Re: License to Kill

year2late said:
It is funny that you claim such nonsense when you lack the simple basics of knowledge of pregnancy.

You seemed to lack knowledge that many KNOWN pregnancies end in miscarriage.

By the way....I am pro-choice. Not pro-abortion. As an individual....I do not believe in abortion. I was put to the test TWICE on the same pregnancy. Once with an initially unwanted pregnancy. The second time (same pregnancy) when abortion was an option because I was suffering from several major complications.

I support a woman's right to chose whatever is best for her particular situation. I was well resourced. I knew I would have the best medical care. I knew my financial and social resources would carry me through pregnancy.
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No one has to know anything more about pregnancy than a child can understand, that another human life is growing inside mommy, in order to understand that 50 million abortions in as many years represents a moral red flag.
 
Re: License to Kill

Angel said:
You're a bit off here. The value of life as per my post is self-preservation. Talking-point logorrhea is a bitch, though. Same thing happened in your sexism post/sound bite, which I left to reveal itself without reply.
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Sometimes talking points are necessary when there is a misunderstanding.

The discussion started with a question, “why is abortion morally wrong”. ? Your answer was, “Preservation of life is the fundamental value, encoded in our DNA. That primary value is the objective principle of morality.”

You did not say or imply that self-preservation is the fundamental value.

I agreed that preservation of life is hard wired, but, I disagreed with your argument that abortion is morally wrong because we are hard wired to preserve fetal life. We are not. All mamals are hard wired to preserve the already born and abort the fetus if and when the environment becomes too stressful to sustain a pregnancy.
 
Re: License to Kill

Angel said:
I was putting it mildly, Madam. The pro-abortion/pro-choice view has been put out of its misery by my arguments. I'm not crowing either. Any thinking ninth grader could blow that nonsense out of the water. You and Lursa and years2late have been shut down. That you all will carry on, business as usual, is merely a testament to the lack of critical thinking behind your view, and to your bad faith of course.
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Since we continue to post and you fail to refute our arguments or support your own, once again you post a response of lies. From your own post, it seems you have not even progressed to 9th grade level then.

We will all carry on discussion regarding abortion with or without you...that's one reason why we're here. Each time you fail to respond, it only demonstrates the failure of your OP premise.

I'm still waiting to hear the support of the most basic of your claims that abortion except when the mother's life is at risk is immoral:

Lursa said:
Who says? What moral authority claims that? I'm sure some do...plenty of religions for example.

So...what authority are you basing your opinion on?
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Re: License to Kill

Quag said:
There is no objective principle of morality as morality is subjective
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Yup. Perhaps we are done here, if the most basic of his arguments cannot be supported.
 
Re: License to Kill

Angel said:
I was putting it mildly, Madam. The pro-abortion/pro-choice view has been put out of its misery by my arguments...... not crowing ..... ninth grader could blow that nonsense out of the water....... been shut down....... testament to the lack of critical thinking....... your bad faith
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Your arguments have not put anyone out of their misery. We are still putting up with your : not crowing, ninth grader blowing nonsense, shutting down, bad faith, and lack of critical thinking.
 
Re: License to Kill

weaver2 said:
Your arguments have not put anyone out of their misery. We are still putting up with your : not crowing, ninth grader blowing nonsense, shutting down, bad faith, and lack of critical thinking.
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Peeweehermeneutics duly noted.
Peace out.
 
Re: License to Kill

weaver2 said:
...You did not say or imply that self-preservation is the fundamental value.

I agreed that preservation of life is hard wired, but, I disagreed with your argument that abortion is morally wrong because we are hard wired to preserve fetal life. We are not. All mamals are hard wired to preserve the already born and abort the fetus if and when the environment becomes too stressful to sustain a pregnancy.
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The preservation of life, as hardwired in the animal instinct for self-preservation, is the primary value, objective and universal.
All of morality originates in this primary objective value: Life.
 
Re: License to Kill

Angel said:
The preservation of life, as hardwired in the animal instinct for self-preservation, is the primary value, objective and universal.
All of morality originates in this primary objective value: Life.
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Thats a beautiful subjective opinion but thats all it is and you keep proving that fact over and over again. Morality is made up and subjective.
 
Re: License to Kill

AGENT J said:
Thats a beautiful subjective opinion but thats all it is and you keep proving that fact over and over again. Morality is made up and subjective.
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Because AGENT J says so? Get real, man! I've provided the basis of objective morality -- biology.
You and your pals continue to provide only your unsupported and unexamined assertions.
 
Re: License to Kill

Angel said:
1.)Because AGENT J says so?
2.) Get real, man!
3.) I've provided the basis of objective morality -- biology.
4.) You and your pals continue to provide only your unsupported and unexamined assertions.
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1.) nope because of commoneses and facts . .you know . .your kryptonite
2.) facts are as real as it gets
3.) you mean your subjective opinions of what you feel a solid basis is but nobody cares. Your feelings are meaningless to facts
4.) aww such a victim, its all the people with their big bad mean facts who dont take subjective seriously. Me and other posters are not the topic.

Fact remains abortion =/= murder, Abortion =/= licenses to kill and Morals are subjective

Can ANYBODY post ONE fact proving otherwise please . . anybody . .one fact? thanks!
 
Re: License to Kill

AGENT J said:
1.) nope because of commoneses and facts . .you know . .your kryptonite
2.) facts are as real as it gets
3.) you mean your subjective opinions of what you feel a solid basis is but nobody cares. Your feelings are meaningless to facts
4.) aww such a victim, its all the people with their big bad mean facts who dont take subjective seriously. Me and other posters are not the topic.

Fact remains abortion =/= murder, Abortion =/= licenses to kill and Morals are subjective

Can ANYBODY post ONE fact proving otherwise please . . anybody . .one fact? thanks!
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"Buzz, buzz."
 
Re: License to Kill

Angel said:
"Buzz, buzz."
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LOL thats what I thought you got nothing!!!
Fact remains abortion =/= murder, Abortion =/= licenses to kill and Morals are subjective

Can ANYBODY post ONE fact proving otherwise please . . anybody . .one fact? thanks!
 
Re: License to Kill

Angel said:
The preservation of life, as hardwired in the animal instinct for self-preservation, is the primary value, objective and universal.
All of morality originates in this primary objective value: Life.
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That doesnt mean that all morality *is objective.* If you believe so, please source it. And I've already pointed this out (so yes I have read your links...and they were almost all either by this guy or used him as a reference:

Lursa said:
The great thing is, I did go thru his links about morality being objective...and they were almost all based on one man's admitted 'belief' based on his research on other animals. AND even he never said that morals were objective, he just said he believed that some animals demonstrate a type of morality. Nothing about it being objective...it's still subjective in how those animals conceive of and use 'their' morals. :roll:
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Re: License to Kill

weaver2 said:
Agreed, and the life parents will die preserving are the already born, not the yet to be born. The women that abort because another child will take limited resources away from already born children is answering the instinct to preserve life, life existing outside the womb. It's a law of nature that animals don't let die the offspring in which they have invested protection, resources, time and instruction in order to preserve a life in which nothing has been invested.

Preserving a fetus at all cost no matter what the cost to the living family is not encoded into our DNA it is political propaganda originating with Jerry Falwell and Paul Weyrich when they started using abortion as the litmus test, in 1978, for electing political figures that would support the conservative Christian agenda.
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You are correct, and that agenda is evident in your example of ending a pregnancy to protect existing life. There is no room in their religious judgements for women to make choices, even the ones they are MOST qualified to make.

The Fallwells and Bin Ladens of this world love religious mandates, not morality. Why? Because true morality requires thought and thought is the path to secularism. That's bad for the bible/Koran business.

Angel deals in hysterics, not logic, the dogma of the precious fetus, not female reality. He's got nothing but religious platitudes to excuse his misogyny.
 
Re: License to Kill

Quag said:
There is no objective principle of morality as morality is subjective
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Uh-huh. Morality is subjective because of the definition of "subjective." We've heard this endless nonsense of yours much too long now. You should know better.
 
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