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Pro lifers too judgemental

SheWolf

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I have been on this website for a few years reading pro life comments and attitudes towards unexpected pregnancies, and I went to high school with many pregnant teenage girls. I was recently thinking about a lot of pregnant teenage girls I went to high school, and all the judgement they went through.

One of my friends, I know for a fact, she was so ashamed, embarrassed, and felt like a failure for having a pregnancy. She hid her pregnancy for the longest time. She basically hid it until she was starting to show. When she finally went to the gynecologist, which was the first time in her whole life, the gynecologist said, "this is a mistake you can't undo."

She was really offended, and felt judged all the time.

I feel like there is way too much unhealthy judgement towards women and girls for simply having an unplanned pregnancy. I also feel the judgmental attitudes are far more common in pro life and religious people. A pro choice person tends to say, "it's your choice, and I respect your decision." A pro life person doesn't see an unplanned pregnancy that way. They probably view it as a huge tragedy and inconvenience (which is pro life language), and the pregnancy is just a consequence a girl has to deal with and has no choice about it.

What are your thoughts on this?
 
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I have been on this website for a few years reading pro life comments and attitudes towards unexpected pregnancies, and I went to high school with many pregnant teenage girls. I was recently thinking about a lot of pregnant teenage girls I went to high school, and all the judgement they went through.

One of my friends, I know for a fact, she was so ashamed, embarrassed, and felt like a failure for having a pregnancy. She hide her pregnancy for the longest time. She basically hide it until she was starting to show. When she finally went to the gynecologist, which was the first time in her whole life, the gynecologist said, "this is a mistake you can't undo."

She was really offended, and felt judged all the time.

I feel like there is way too much unhealthy judgement towards women and girls for simply having an unplanned pregnancy. I also feel the judgmental attitudes are far more common in pro life and religious people. A pro choice person tends to say, "it's your choice, and I respect your decision." A pro life person doesn't see an unplanned pregnancy that way. They probably view it as a huge tragedy and inconvenience (which is pro life language), and the pregnancy is just a consequence a girl has to deal with and has no choice about it.

What are your thoughts on this?

When you feel qualified to make major life decisions for half the population without taking responsibility for them, you're not only judgmental, but entitled.
 
I have been on this website for a few years reading pro life comments and attitudes towards unexpected pregnancies, and I went to high school with many pregnant teenage girls. I was recently thinking about a lot of pregnant teenage girls I went to high school, and all the judgement they went through.

One of my friends, I know for a fact, she was so ashamed, embarrassed, and felt like a failure for having a pregnancy. She hide her pregnancy for the longest time. She basically hide it until she was starting to show. When she finally went to the gynecologist, which was the first time in her whole life, the gynecologist said, "this is a mistake you can't undo."

She was really offended, and felt judged all the time.

I feel like there is way too much unhealthy judgement towards women and girls for simply having an unplanned pregnancy. I also feel the judgmental attitudes are far more common in pro life and religious people. A pro choice person tends to say, "it's your choice, and I respect your decision." A pro life person doesn't see an unplanned pregnancy that way. They probably view it as a huge tragedy and inconvenience (which is pro life language), and the pregnancy is just a consequence a girl has to deal with and has no choice about it.

What are your thoughts on this?

Well there are normal prolifers thens theres extremists . . its really that simple


and this isnt the only topic where people try to bring SHAME and JUDGMENT and their proclaimed moral superiority in to things, thats actually common place for many things.
Its especially common when one side doesnt have much more than feelings and wants the other to follower their rules and or be forced too.
Choice on this issue is the most american stance one could have becase you get to do what you want and others get to do what they want and no rights and or laws are violated. Doesnt get more american than that. Thats why the vast majority of first world countries have laws that are more prochoice than prolife. Its typically third world countries or countries that dont have rights and freedoms, that are dictatorships or theocracies that have prochoice laws.
 
I have been on this website for a few years reading pro life comments and attitudes towards unexpected pregnancies, and I went to high school with many pregnant teenage girls. I was recently thinking about a lot of pregnant teenage girls I went to high school, and all the judgement they went through.

One of my friends, I know for a fact, she was so ashamed, embarrassed, and felt like a failure for having a pregnancy. She hid her pregnancy for the longest time. She basically hid it until she was starting to show. When she finally went to the gynecologist, which was the first time in her whole life, the gynecologist said, "this is a mistake you can't undo."

She was really offended, and felt judged all the time.

I feel like there is way too much unhealthy judgement towards women and girls for simply having an unplanned pregnancy. I also feel the judgmental attitudes are far more common in pro life and religious people. A pro choice person tends to say, "it's your choice, and I respect your decision." A pro life person doesn't see an unplanned pregnancy that way. They probably view it as a huge tragedy and inconvenience (which is pro life language), and the pregnancy is just a consequence a girl has to deal with and has no choice about it.

What are your thoughts on this?

I certainly give a 'nod' on this.

Esp. since I thought you were (a very rational) pro-life proponent.
 
I have been on this website for a few years reading pro life comments and attitudes towards unexpected pregnancies, and I went to high school with many pregnant teenage girls. I was recently thinking about a lot of pregnant teenage girls I went to high school, and all the judgement they went through.

One of my friends, I know for a fact, she was so ashamed, embarrassed, and felt like a failure for having a pregnancy. She hid her pregnancy for the longest time. She basically hid it until she was starting to show. When she finally went to the gynecologist, which was the first time in her whole life, the gynecologist said, "this is a mistake you can't undo."

She was really offended, and felt judged all the time.

I feel like there is way too much unhealthy judgement towards women and girls for simply having an unplanned pregnancy. I also feel the judgmental attitudes are far more common in pro life and religious people. A pro choice person tends to say, "it's your choice, and I respect your decision." A pro life person doesn't see an unplanned pregnancy that way. They probably view it as a huge tragedy and inconvenience (which is pro life language), and the pregnancy is just a consequence a girl has to deal with and has no choice about it.

What are your thoughts on this?

I'm not sure much has changed in the many, many years since I was in high school. Those that have money still go to a private doctor for a quietly discreet abortion, avoid the shaming from judgmental peers and get on with their lives. Those that rely on subsidized clinics have long distances to go, experience delaying restrictions designed push the pregnancy into the 2nd trimester when abortions become way too expensive. Then when the pregnancy becomes obvious the same judging begins with the same kind of people that judged long ago, the self-righteous hypocrites.

The over-the -counter morning after pill reduced the judgmental's opportunity for judging. That's why they fought so hard to get it called an abortifacient and against it's availability without the instruction from a judgmental pharmacist, of which there are many. There is no shortage of people eager to condemn someone else's behavior.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
 
I have been on this website for a few years reading pro life comments and attitudes towards unexpected pregnancies, and I went to high school with many pregnant teenage girls. I was recently thinking about a lot of pregnant teenage girls I went to high school, and all the judgement they went through.

One of my friends, I know for a fact, she was so ashamed, embarrassed, and felt like a failure for having a pregnancy. She hid her pregnancy for the longest time. She basically hid it until she was starting to show. When she finally went to the gynecologist, which was the first time in her whole life, the gynecologist said, "this is a mistake you can't undo."

She was really offended, and felt judged all the time.

I feel like there is way too much unhealthy judgement towards women and girls for simply having an unplanned pregnancy. I also feel the judgmental attitudes are far more common in pro life and religious people. A pro choice person tends to say, "it's your choice, and I respect your decision." A pro life person doesn't see an unplanned pregnancy that way. They probably view it as a huge tragedy and inconvenience (which is pro life language), and the pregnancy is just a consequence a girl has to deal with and has no choice about it.

What are your thoughts on this?

What I find mind boggling about many of the prolifers on this board is that it seems it is all about judgment and zero pragmatism.

If a prolifer REALLY cared about drastically reducing abortion they would realize that slut shaming only encourages abortion by stigmatizing premarital sex . Fingerwagging is unhelpful as well for the same reason.

A pragmatic prolifer would have the common sense to know that overturning R v W would do nothing to decrease abortion rates. Abortion pills would become the drug pushers new thing. If people do not thing drug pushers are readily accessible in most towns in the US, they are beyond naïve.

A pragmatic pro-lifer (in my eyes one that REALLY cares about decreasing rates of abortion would realize there are two ways to attack the issue.

1) Prevent pregnancy - the most effective forms of contraception are the long term forms - they are financially inaccessible to those most at risk for choosing abortion (too rich for Medicaid, to poor for insurance)

2)Turn the unwanted pregnancy into a wanted one. This would require a woman having the resources to support her family during pregnancy and decent health insurance to insure her safety. It would also mean her KNOWING she well be able to support her family for the years to come and having safety nets during the hard time.

Number one is much easier (and cheaper!) to achieve. But it would mean getting over the whole slut shaming thing.
 
What I find mind boggling about many of the prolifers on this board is that it seems it is all about judgment and zero pragmatism.

If a prolifer REALLY cared about drastically reducing abortion they would realize that slut shaming only encourages abortion by stigmatizing premarital sex . Fingerwagging is unhelpful as well for the same reason.

A pragmatic prolifer would have the common sense to know that overturning R v W would do nothing to decrease abortion rates. Abortion pills would become the drug pushers new thing. If people do not thing drug pushers are readily accessible in most towns in the US, they are beyond naïve.

A pragmatic pro-lifer (in my eyes one that REALLY cares about decreasing rates of abortion would realize there are two ways to attack the issue.

1) Prevent pregnancy - the most effective forms of contraception are the long term forms - they are financially inaccessible to those most at risk for choosing abortion (too rich for Medicaid, to poor for insurance)

2)Turn the unwanted pregnancy into a wanted one. This would require a woman having the resources to support her family during pregnancy and decent health insurance to insure her safety. It would also mean her KNOWING she well be able to support her family for the years to come and having safety nets during the hard time.

Number one is much easier (and cheaper!) to achieve. But it would mean getting over the whole slut shaming thing.

zero pragmatism.

Yup! That's how you know the anti-abortion movement is not about saving little unborn humans.
 
Yup! That's how you know the anti-abortion movement is not about saving little unborn humans.

The pro-life movement only supports life before birth. Life after birth is somebody else's problem.
 
The pro-life movement only supports life before birth. Life after birth is somebody else's problem.

This is as about as close as you will get to an acknowledgement from the left that there is in fact a problem with the killing portion of abortion.
However, this is a common misconception and not grounded in truth. If anything, conservatives care more about the individual than the left ever will. It doesn't take a long time to see the filth in Democratic controlled cities across this nation and the accelerating homeless problems. These cities controlled by dems are basically slums at this point. This is the democratic future...
 
There is a case to be made that pro-choicer's have no problem with pro-lifer's in terms of beliefs. The clash comes when pro-lifer's begin to legally impress their views upon others.
 
The pro-life movement only supports life before birth. Life after birth is somebody else's problem.

This is not so, and it's time for this old myth to be put to rest.
 
People like Iron Merc fail to answer the real question. If a woman cannot control her body, her autonomy; if she is forced by law to be an incubation chamber, at great physical, emotional, and financial cost -- how is she not a slave? Do the same people who want to FORCE women to carry children to term also support free healthcare and a broad social safety net? Or are they just concerned about the Bible -- which, by the way, explicitly says that the unborn are not just not equal to developed humans, but actually places a monetary value on them (3-5 silver pieces, depending on gender).
 
There is a case to be made that pro-choicer's have no problem with pro-lifer's in terms of beliefs. The clash comes when pro-lifer's begin to legally impress their views upon others.

I've quoted myself 'cause I had something to add but had thought of it too late.

The pro-life vs. pro-choice debate is asymmetrical. It is not just a clash of ideologies/beliefs. The pro-choicer's have no way, in a democracy, to force pro-lifer's to conform to their wishes.* Our law court dockets are witness to the reverse.

* Yes, I know. China, etc..
 
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"They call her a killer, and they call her a sinner and they call her a whore."

Everlast was correct.

And what's even more crazy is Republican parents and their daughters have tons of abortions.

Hell, Trump has probably paid for 20 (then business expensed them).
 
This is not so, and it's time for this old myth to be put to rest.

I think this is partially accurate.

Here is my take. MOst women who choose abortion lack decent resources. Poor access to medical care, insufficient resources for pregnancy - inability to take time off for pregnancy -even if a doctor orders it because of housing insecurity.

Pro-life might be personal....but it is emphatically a political issue at it's core. It is hard to get elected as a Republican without proclaiming being pro-life (look at Trump....nobody in his right mind believes he is a believer in Pro-life issues - he agrees to vote that way to score votes). So, what it comes down to is these under resourced women who find themselves pregnant...which party fights for them to have a better social safety net? Which party tries to get health care for all - not just those that can afford it?

So...do they care - on an emotional level sure. Do they vote to assure they have quality care once born? Not so much.
 
"They call her a killer, and they call her a sinner and they call her a whore."

Everlast was correct.

And what's even more crazy is Republican parents and their daughters have tons of abortions.

Hell, Trump has probably paid for 20 (then business expensed them).

THE PRO-CHOICE ACTION NETWORK

>>Many anti-choice women are convinced that their need for abortion is unique -- not like those "other" women -- even though they have abortions for the same sorts of reasons. Anti-choice women often expect special treatment from clinic staff. Some demand an abortion immediately, wanting to skip important preliminaries such as taking a history or waiting for blood test results. Frequently, anti-abortion women will refuse counseling (such women are generally turned away or referred to an outside counselor because counseling at clinics is mandatory). Some women insist on sneaking in the back door and hiding in a room away from other patients. Others refuse to sit in the waiting room with women they call "sluts" and "trash." Or if they do, they get angry when other patients in the waiting room talk or laugh, because it proves to them that women get abortions casually, for "convenience".<<<
 
People like Iron Merc fail to answer the real question. If a woman cannot control her body, her autonomy; if she is forced by law to be an incubation chamber, at great physical, emotional, and financial cost -- how is she not a slave? Do the same people who want to FORCE women to carry children to term also support free healthcare and a broad social safety net? Or are they just concerned about the Bible -- which, by the way, explicitly says that the unborn are not just not equal to developed humans, but actually places a monetary value on them (3-5 silver pieces, depending on gender).

There are some solid legal arguments that say forbidding elective abortion would violate the 13th Amendment.

If women are compelled to bear children, they are subjected to 'involuntary servitude' in violation of the Thirteenth Amendment. Even if the woman has consented to the risk of pregnancy, that does not permit the state to force her to remain pregnant.
 
I've quoted myself 'cause I had something to add but had thought of it too late.

The pro-life vs. pro-choice debate is asymmetrical. It is not just a clash of ideologies/beliefs. The pro-choicer's have no way, in a democracy, to force pro-lifer's to conform to their wishes.* Our law court dockets are witness to the reverse.

* Yes, I know. China, etc..

Not sure I understand your post but what I would respond with is that the point of the pro-choice position IS that we would never attempt to make a pro-life pregnant woman conform to our wishes.
 
Not sure I understand your post but what I would respond with is that the point of the pro-choice position IS that we would never attempt to make a pro-life pregnant woman conform to our wishes.

Yup. You got it.

Regards
 
There is a case to be made that pro-choicer's have no problem with pro-lifer's in terms of beliefs. The clash comes when pro-lifer's begin to legally impress their views upon others.

BINGO!!!!

Now again to be fair there are pro lifers that completely admit this. They completely admit that their views see the woman as a lesser and they value the ZEF over the woman. All Pro Lifers arent too judgemental just some.
 
I think this is partially accurate.

Here is my take. MOst women who choose abortion lack decent resources. Poor access to medical care, insufficient resources for pregnancy - inability to take time off for pregnancy -even if a doctor orders it because of housing insecurity.

Pro-life might be personal....but it is emphatically a political issue at it's core. It is hard to get elected as a Republican without proclaiming being pro-life (look at Trump....nobody in his right mind believes he is a believer in Pro-life issues - he agrees to vote that way to score votes). So, what it comes down to is these under resourced women who find themselves pregnant...which party fights for them to have a better social safety net? Which party tries to get health care for all - not just those that can afford it?

So...do they care - on an emotional level sure. Do they vote to assure they have quality care once born? Not so much.

Do they spend what's in their own pocketbooks to help those in need have post-natal care? Help to find housing and jobs and provide job training? Yes.
 
Do they spend what's in their own pocketbooks to help those in need have post-natal care? Help to find housing and jobs and provide job training? Yes.

It is called taxes. And yes I would pay more if I knew we could assure proper healthcare for all Americans.

And charitable donation otherwise.

I regularly donate.

I used to regularly volunteer my time before I had a great deal of family (medical) issues.
 
When you feel qualified to make major life decisions for half the population without taking responsibility for them, you're not only judgmental, but entitled.

So, you want play like an adult, then you better have the maturity and resources to deal with the consequences.

I know it's perfectly fine with you that these young women raise kids on the taxpayer dole for the most part.
 
So, you want play like an adult, then you better have the maturity and resources to deal with the consequences.

I know it's perfectly fine with you that these young women raise kids on the taxpayer dole for the most part.

and thats why most first world countries with rights and freedoms have laws that reflect pro choice so we dont limit resources and these kids arent forced on too "the taxpayer dole"
 
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