• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Pro lifers too judgemental

Aberration said:
If you take an innocent life you deserve to be judged. Hypocritical to expect anyone to care about your feelings.
Click to expand...

I believe the post is describing girls
being judged for unplanned pregnancy, not "taking an innocent life."
 
Aberration said:
If you take an innocent life you deserve to be judged. Hypocritical to expect anyone to care about your feelings.
Click to expand...

If you dont believe in that, then it's not really a factor.

Unless it's secular law.
 
weaver2 said:
I'm not sure much has changed in the many, many years since I was in high school. Those that have money still go to a private doctor for a quietly discreet abortion, avoid the shaming from judgmental peers and get on with their lives. Those that rely on subsidized clinics have long distances to go, experience delaying restrictions designed push the pregnancy into the 2nd trimester when abortions become way too expensive. Then when the pregnancy becomes obvious the same judging begins with the same kind of people that judged long ago, the self-righteous hypocrites.

The over-the -counter morning after pill reduced the judgmental's opportunity for judging. That's why they fought so hard to get it called an abortifacient and against it's availability without the instruction from a judgmental pharmacist, of which there are many. There is no shortage of people eager to condemn someone else's behavior.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
Click to expand...

The religious are ever fervent to ensure the poor cannot get an abortion, and cannot get social aid via cuts promulgated through the Republican party. This way they are pushed in the direction of the church, who's charity is only given on the auspices of evangelism.

This in turn creates more of the faithful.

And that is what this is truly all about.
 
Obscurity said:
The religious are ever fervent to ensure the poor cannot get an abortion, and cannot get social aid via cuts promulgated through the Republican party. This way they are pushed in the direction of the church, who's charity is only given on the auspices of evangelism.

This in turn creates more of the faithful.

And that is what this is truly all about.
Click to expand...

Yup, I've always said it's just about 'more boots on the ground.'

That while I believed in quality of life, they believed in quantity. And that's the much more 'dehumanizing' view certainly...reducing to numbers.
 
Lursa said:
Yup, I've always said it's just about 'more boots on the ground.'

That while I believed in quality of life, they believed in quantity. And that's the much more 'dehumanizing' view certainly...reducing to numbers.
Click to expand...

All they care about is proliferation of their ignorant beliefs.

That's all.
 
SheWolf said:
I have been on this website for a few years reading pro life comments and attitudes towards unexpected pregnancies, and I went to high school with many pregnant teenage girls. I was recently thinking about a lot of pregnant teenage girls I went to high school, and all the judgement they went through.

One of my friends, I know for a fact, she was so ashamed, embarrassed, and felt like a failure for having a pregnancy. She hid her pregnancy for the longest time. She basically hid it until she was starting to show. When she finally went to the gynecologist, which was the first time in her whole life, the gynecologist said, "this is a mistake you can't undo."

She was really offended, and felt judged all the time.

I feel like there is way too much unhealthy judgement towards women and girls for simply having an unplanned pregnancy. I also feel the judgmental attitudes are far more common in pro life and religious people. A pro choice person tends to say, "it's your choice, and I respect your decision." A pro life person doesn't see an unplanned pregnancy that way. They probably view it as a huge tragedy and inconvenience (which is pro life language), and the pregnancy is just a consequence a girl has to deal with and has no choice about it.

What are your thoughts on this?
Click to expand...

I love your post. I am pro-life but feel very strongly that you have a very valid point.

My pro-life stand is that there are so many couples waiting to adopt that an unwanted baby could be another couple's miracle. And, these couples are willing to financially assist.

But there is ignorance and judgmental people all around. We are all guilty of it. I'm not above it. It's posts like yours that remind us to take a step back and show compassion.
 
OKgrannie said:
I believe the post is describing girls
being judged for unplanned pregnancy, not "taking an innocent life."
Click to expand...

You are right that’s what my post is about. I’ve seen young girls judged by pro-life people and religious people for having an unplanned pregnancy. That’s what the OP is about. It’s about me being in high school and watching my friends experience judgement, as they struggle with dealing with a teenage unplanned pregnancy
 
Last edited:
Lursa said:
Yup, I've always said it's just about 'more boots on the ground.'

That while I believed in quality of life, they believed in quantity. And that's the much more 'dehumanizing' view certainly...reducing to numbers.
Click to expand...

If they really cared about people being dehumanized then why do they support Trump? Why do they support the policy of family separation? They seem to have zero concern for the people being held in border camps.
 
KatDonovan said:
I love your post. I am pro-life but feel very strongly that you have a very valid point.

My pro-life stand is that there are so many couples waiting to adopt that an unwanted baby could be another couple's miracle. And, these couples are willing to financially assist.

But there is ignorance and judgmental people all around. We are all guilty of it. I'm not above it. It's posts like yours that remind us to take a step back and show compassion.
Click to expand...

??? Are you aware that there are over 100,000 babies and children in the US currently available for adoption? (Not in foster care, that # is 400,000)

If you are aware of it, why on earth would you encourage a woman to unnecessarily have a kid she doesnt want to have just to add it to that giant pool? For every new infant added to that pool, it means another baby or kid waiting is passed over. And those kids are waiting, hoping for families...they are fully aware of not having homes, loving parents.

(yes, I can provide multiple links to those numbers)
 
Lursa said:
??? Are you aware that there are over 100,000 babies and children in the US currently available for adoption? (Not in foster care, that # is 400,000)

If you are aware of it, why on earth would you encourage a woman to unnecessarily have a kid she doesnt want to have just to add it to that giant pool? For every new infant added to that pool, it means another baby or kid waiting is passed over. And those kids are waiting, hoping for families...they are fully aware of not having homes, loving parents.

(yes, I can provide multiple links to those numbers)
Click to expand...
There are not newborn babies waiting for adoption. There are couples waiting for newborns to adopt.
 
KatDonovan said:
There are not newborn babies waiting for adoption. There are couples waiting for newborns to adopt.
Click to expand...

Nobody owes them their progeny. They can be foster parents, adopt an older child, be a big brother/sister, or adopt a shelter animal and truly save a life.
 
SheWolf said:
I have been on this website for a few years reading pro life comments and attitudes towards unexpected pregnancies, and I went to high school with many pregnant teenage girls. I was recently thinking about a lot of pregnant teenage girls I went to high school, and all the judgement they went through.

One of my friends, I know for a fact, she was so ashamed, embarrassed, and felt like a failure for having a pregnancy. She hid her pregnancy for the longest time. She basically hid it until she was starting to show. When she finally went to the gynecologist, which was the first time in her whole life, the gynecologist said, "this is a mistake you can't undo."

She was really offended, and felt judged all the time.

I feel like there is way too much unhealthy judgement towards women and girls for simply having an unplanned pregnancy. I also feel the judgmental attitudes are far more common in pro life and religious people. A pro choice person tends to say, "it's your choice, and I respect your decision." A pro life person doesn't see an unplanned pregnancy that way. They probably view it as a huge tragedy and inconvenience (which is pro life language), and the pregnancy is just a consequence a girl has to deal with and has no choice about it.

What are your thoughts on this?
Click to expand...

So first are you saying the unwanted pregnancy is not a mistake? A pregnant high school girl is pretty much a mistake in your life plan. Pregnant without means of support in high school. Who plans that?
Plan for success. Get a high school diploma, don't get pregnant out of wedlock, get out of high school and get a full time job, any job to start with is better than no job. Those things will dramatically improve the success of young girls and women.
Do accidents happen, sometimes. However when you are not practicing safe sex if you are young, unmarried and possibly still in high school then you are not planning and working to prevent a "mistake". You also need to understand that actions have consequences. This modern day belief some seem to be pushing that "it's not you fault," is harmful and damaging to society. Bottom line why is killing a baby in the womb a better choice than life?,
 
Integrityrespec said:
So first are you saying the unwanted pregnancy is not a mistake? A pregnant high school girl is pretty much a mistake in your life plan. Pregnant without means of support in high school. Who plans that?
Plan for success. Get a high school diploma, don't get pregnant out of wedlock, get out of high school and get a full time job, any job to start with is better than no job. Those things will dramatically improve the success of young girls and women.
Click to expand...

Agreed, pregnant and in high school is a really bad idea and it happens most often in those states that teach abstinence only. Just a coincidence? Nope studies show that the only real difference between states with low teen and high teen pregnancy rate is the type of sex education program.


Do accidents happen, sometimes. However when you are not practicing safe sex if you are young, unmarried and possibly still in high school then you are not planning and working to prevent a "mistake". You also need to understand that actions have consequences. This modern day belief some seem to be pushing that "it's not you fault," is harmful and damaging to society. Bottom line why is killing a baby in the womb a better choice than life?,
Click to expand...

Agreed, actions have consequences. And when you let the Christian right bully your legislature into "Abstinence Only" the consequences are that you have a lot of pregnant teens and taxes go up because the consequence of teen pregnancy are pre/post natal care, birthing costs, 18 years of welfare aid and higher taxes to pay for it all.

What do Abstinence Only states have in common? They restrict abortion; they ban morning after pills; they allow businesses to refuse selling certain products if they offend the sellers moral beliefs; they have high welfare costs and they piss and moan about taxes more than other states.
 
weaver2 said:
I'm not sure much has changed in the many, many years since I was in high school. Those that have money still go to a private doctor for a quietly discreet abortion, avoid the shaming from judgmental peers and get on with their lives. Those that rely on subsidized clinics have long distances to go, experience delaying restrictions designed push the pregnancy into the 2nd trimester when abortions become way too expensive. Then when the pregnancy becomes obvious the same judging begins with the same kind of people that judged long ago, the self-righteous hypocrites.

The over-the -counter morning after pill reduced the judgmental's opportunity for judging. That's why they fought so hard to get it called an abortifacient and against it's availability without the instruction from a judgmental pharmacist, of which there are many. There is no shortage of people eager to condemn someone else's behavior.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
Click to expand...

The casual attitude that you have toward taking a life is remarkable. That aborted baby is a child growing in the womb. It is a life and by everyones standard will be a person, and the fact that it isn't yet, born, shouldn't make the decision to end it's life so valueless.
 
KatDonovan said:
There are not newborn babies waiting for adoption. There are couples waiting for newborns to adopt.
Click to expand...

Please source that. And also, what about 'non-perfect' new borns? Even if they arent white, they often dont get adopted. Many of these newborns are born to women who didnt stop doing drugs, drinking, smoking. I know...my parents fostered and then adopted my twin sisters...both special needs infants because their mother was a crack whore. Many newborns arent born perfect or white...and just end up in that giant pool, waiting and hoping.

And you didnt answer my questions:

If you are aware of it, why on earth would you encourage a woman to unnecessarily have a kid she doesnt want to have just to add it to that giant pool? For every new infant added to that pool, it means another baby or kid waiting is passed over. And those kids are waiting, hoping for families...they are fully aware of not having homes, loving parents.
 
Last edited:
Integrityrespec said:
So first are you saying the unwanted pregnancy is not a mistake? A pregnant high school girl is pretty much a mistake in your life plan. Pregnant without means of support in high school. Who plans that?
Plan for success. Get a high school diploma, don't get pregnant out of wedlock, get out of high school and get a full time job, any job to start with is better than no job. Those things will dramatically improve the success of young girls and women.
Do accidents happen, sometimes. However when you are not practicing safe sex if you are young, unmarried and possibly still in high school then you are not planning and working to prevent a "mistake". You also need to understand that actions have consequences. This modern day belief some seem to be pushing that "it's not you fault," is harmful and damaging to society. Bottom line why is killing a baby in the womb a better choice than life?,
Click to expand...

A pro choice person wouldn't judge them for "making a mistake." Calling an unplanned pregnancy a major life mistake, is your judgement. A pro choice person would consider teen mothers as "making their choice and deciding what to do with their pregnancies." It is their choice, and should be their choice to become a parent. If a teenager chooses to raise a child, then they need to take responsibility for raising that child. Loving your own child and raising it with compassion is nothing something you can force an anybody including a teenage girl. They either have that personal goal, or they don't.

The pregnant teens I went to school with have had very different, and very difficult lives, because of their teenage pregnancies. The teenage father usually does not stay in their lives, so they need to be prepared to be a single parent. They are less likely to graduate high school and go to college. My best friend has since graduated college, but she did so, very, very late. My other friend got her GED, and is in college and doing other things.

Their lives are very different from mine. They make less money than me, and have kids to take care on top of that. However, they made the choice to parent. This was all their CHOICE. I don't consider their children mistakes. I don't consider their reproductive decisions mistakes. Teenage pregnancies are very tragic. However, the only way I would support a child taking on such a responsibility, is if they choose it for themselves and they are willing to be a good parent. I see no point in judging them and pointing out mistakes. I always supported them, and I always will.
 
KatDonovan said:
There are not newborn babies waiting for adoption. There are couples waiting for newborns to adopt.
Click to expand...

I am not taking the posters side in this argument. But I am wondering, why does it matter if they are newborns are not? It's a human life and a child, is it not? Why deny it a loving family because it's not a newborn?

I really don't see how that is a valid argument. It's race and age shouldn't matter, should it? I don't think so.
 
Integrityrespec said:
The casual attitude that you have toward taking a life is remarkable. That aborted baby is a child growing in the womb. It is a life and by everyones standard will be a person, and the fact that it isn't yet, born, shouldn't make the decision to end it's life so valueless.
Click to expand...

You appear to be calling the creation of that life a mistake. You should think about what you're saying if you really think that that life is so sacred.
 
weaver2 said:
Agreed, pregnant and in high school is a really bad idea and it happens most often in those states that teach abstinence only. Just a coincidence? Nope studies show that the only real difference between states with low teen and high teen pregnancy rate is the type of sex education program.




Agreed, actions have consequences. And when you let the Christian right bully your legislature into "Abstinence Only" the consequences are that you have a lot of pregnant teens and taxes go up because the consequence of teen pregnancy are pre/post natal care, birthing costs, 18 years of welfare aid and higher taxes to pay for it all.

What do Abstinence Only states have in common? They restrict abortion; they ban morning after pills; they allow businesses to refuse selling certain products if they offend the sellers moral beliefs; they have high welfare costs and they piss and moan about taxes more than other states.
Click to expand...

Looking at your map I'd say you seem to be ignoring the economic factors in those mostly southern states. You are also ignoring the enormous abortion rate present in the areas with so called better sex education. So I guess the question is really how we deal with unwanted pregnancy.
http://worldpopulationreview.com/states/abortion-rates-by-state/
 
SheWolf said:
A pro choice person wouldn't judge them for "making a mistake." Calling an unplanned pregnancy a major life mistake, is your judgement. A pro choice person would consider teen mothers as "making their choice and deciding what to do with their pregnancies." It is their choice, and should be their choice to become a parent. If a teenager chooses to raise a child, then they need to take responsibility for raising that child. Loving your own child and raising it with compassion is nothing something you can force an anybody including a teenage girl. They either have that personal goal, or they don't.

The pregnant teens I went to school with have had very different, and very difficult lives, because of their teenage pregnancies. The teenage father usually does not stay in their lives, so they need to be prepared to be a single parent. They are less likely to graduate high school and go to college. My best friend has since graduated college, but she did so, very, very late. My other friend got her GED, and is in college and doing other things.

Their lives are very different from mine. They make less money than me, and have kids to take care on top of that. However, they made the choice to parent. This was all their CHOICE. I don't consider their children mistakes. I don't consider their reproductive decisions mistakes. Teenage pregnancies are very tragic. However, the only way I would support a child taking on such a responsibility, is if they choose it for themselves and they are willing to be a good parent. I see no point in judging them and pointing out mistakes. I always supported them, and I always will.
Click to expand...

If it wasn't a mistake then why would they be having abortions? You mean they planned on the pregnancy and then decided to get an abortion. That's sick.
 
KatDonovan said:
There are not newborn babies waiting for adoption. There are couples waiting for newborns to adopt.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you unaware but only about 1 percent of women give their newborn up for adoption the rest decide to raise the newborn themselves often using financial support for food , housing , healthcare and other items paid for by taxpayers .
 
Integrityrespec said:
The casual attitude that you have toward taking a life is remarkable. That aborted baby is a child growing in the womb. It is a life and by everyones standard will be a person, and the fact that it isn't yet, born, shouldn't make the decision to end it's life so valueless.
Click to expand...

It's a uterus and the zef is part of the woman until it's born. There is nothing wrong with aborting it when you know you cannot or will not care for it properly.
 
Scrabaholic said:
It's a uterus and the zef is part of the woman until it's born. There is nothing wrong with aborting it when you know you cannot or will not care for it properly.
Click to expand...

There is plenty wrong with abortion. Put it up for adoption.
 
Integrityrespec said:
There is plenty wrong with abortion. Put it up for adoption.
Click to expand...

Did you miss post 61 entirely? There's plenty wrong with adoption too: just ask the 100,000 already waiting to be adopted...aware, hoping, maybe suffering. And for each newborn added to this pool unnecessarily (by encouraging a woman to do so), one of those kids goes without.

We dont need more unplanned, unwanted kids. It's immoral IMO to insist that someone else create them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom