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We Know the Cure for Poverty: The Empowerment of Women

Obscurity

Obscurity

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A Hitchens quote that has seemingly escaped the pro-birth crowd:



Think of the stark progress the pro-birthers are trying to destroy; the ability for a thinking, contributing, personified member of our public being forced to endure something against their will; being forced to allow another entity (not a person) to use their life force; to then cut funding for aide to people; and to criminalize a medical procedure.

This is precisely why the overton window must be shifted back to the center.

These conversations, about abortion, and many other issues deemed sanct to the religious right, are not conversations a super power, western, advanced nation should be having; the case is closed. We know the result of backward thinking; we've LIVED the reality of the pro-birth position and have changed our ways, and yet, the pro-birth crowd insists it will be.. different, this time.

No, it won't. Enabling their vampiric religious belief to enact policy and undermine jurisprudence and constitutional rights will destroy this country.
 
By letting women be god-less murdering whores?
 
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This conversation should go well... :roll:
 
Obscurity said:
A Hitchens quote that has seemingly escaped the pro-birth crowd:



Think of the stark progress the pro-birthers are trying to destroy; the ability for a thinking, contributing, personified member of our public being forced to endure something against their will; being forced to allow another entity (not a person) to use their life force; to then cut funding for aide to people; and to criminalize a medical procedure.

This is precisely why the overton window must be shifted back to the center.

These conversations, about abortion, and many other issues deemed sanct to the religious right, are not conversations a super power, western, advanced nation should be having; the case is closed. We know the result of backward thinking; we've LIVED the reality of the pro-birth position and have changed our ways, and yet, the pro-birth crowd insists it will be.. different, this time.

No, it won't. Enabling their vampiric religious belief to enact policy and undermine jurisprudence and constitutional rights will destroy this country.
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Where did you dig that up? And why?
"... quote that has seemingly escaped the pro-birth crowd" assumes a great deal.
The guy's been dead for 8 years.
Why would you think something he said near the end of his own life would carry any weight with pro-lifers anyway?
 
bubbabgone said:
Where did you dig that up? And why?
"... quote that has seemingly escaped the pro-birth crowd" assumes a great deal.
The guy's been dead for 8 years.
Why would you think something he said near the end of his own life would carry any weight with pro-lifers anyway?
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As a fan of Hitchens, all of his works, I find the overton window needs a shove back to the realm of sanity, and this quote by Hitchens does it best.

The entire conversation has been emotionally hijacked by ne'er-do-well busy bodies who have nothing better to do than judge others for the individal choices they make; see above for one of said person's commentary.

Carry weight? It's not the pro-birthers I am trying to convince. It's everyone else; we need a sane conversation, not a theocratic manifesto of bronze age war god panderings.
 
Obscurity said:
As a fan of Hitchens, all of his works, I find the overton window needs a shove back to the realm of sanity, and this quote by Hitchens does it best.

The entire conversation has been emotionally hijacked by ne'er-do-well busy bodies who have nothing better to do than judge others for the individal choices they make; see above for one of said person's commentary.

Carry weight? It's not the pro-birthers I am trying to convince. It's everyone else; we need a sane conversation, not a theocratic manifesto of bronze age war god panderings.
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That's what made "... quote that has seemingly escaped the pro-birth crowd" so peculiar.
Like if a quote by someone they never heard of had not escaped pro-lifers they would have cast aside their silly concerns about when human life begins.
 
WCH said:
By letting women be god-less murdering whores?
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You might try to be a little more prudent before referring to women that choose abortion as 'god-less murdering whores' especially knowing Trump's sexual proclivities and the likely possibility that he helped paid for many of the abortions for his 'god-less murdering whores' that he impregnated over the past 40 years.
 
HumblePi said:
You might try to be a little more prudent before referring to women that choose abortion as 'god-less murdering whores' especially knowing Trump's sexual proclivities and the likely possibility that he helped paid for many of the abortions for his 'god-less murdering whores' that he impregnated over the past 40 years.
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This is how far the overton window has shifted; that these people are able to come out and say such tragic and.... obtuse things as that which you quote.

At the end of the day, the window is too far to the right; the conversation is a disgusting misrepresentation by a minority of ideologues and foisted endlessly into the judicial system over and over at the expense of tax payers to the tune of billions.

It's endless and it must stop.
 
bubbabgone said:
That's what made "... quote that has seemingly escaped the pro-birth crowd" so peculiar.
Like if a quote by someone they never heard of had not escaped pro-lifers they would have cast aside their silly concerns about when human life begins.
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It's peculiar, but then again, it's a call to those in the center and left that the pro birth crowd is beyond saving. They literally excuse the egregious abuse of women in their tireless crusade and endless waste of money so they can define and refine a bogus conversation which is full of nonsense, all so RESTRICTING some forms of abortion becomes acceptable to the rest of us; then it goes further, and further, and before you know it, it's outlawed and we live in a christian authoritarian dictat.

A republic, if you can keep it.
 
Obscurity said:
It's peculiar, but then again, it's a call to those in the center and left that the pro birth crowd is beyond saving. They literally excuse the egregious abuse of women in their tireless crusade and endless waste of money so they can define and refine a bogus conversation which is full of nonsense, all so RESTRICTING some forms of abortion becomes acceptable to the rest of us; then it goes further, and further, and before you know it, it's outlawed and we live in a christian authoritarian dictat.

A republic, if you can keep it.
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So I take it you're on board with the Bernie Sanders population control recommendation?

Say, is there an anti-birth crowd and are you in it?
 
bubbabgone said:
So I take it you're on board with the Bernie Sanders population control recommendation?

Say, is there an anti-birth crowd and are you in it?
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Blatant misrepresentation of what Sanders said, but you already knew that. We'll just chalk you up as another cog driving our completely broken political discourse.

Good day, sir.
 
Obscurity said:
Blatant misrepresentation of what Sanders said, but you already knew that. We'll just chalk you up as another cog driving our completely broken political discourse.

Good day, sir.
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Oh? No need to be so defensive. What was Bernie getting at?
 
bubbabgone said:
Oh? No need to be so defensive. What was Bernie getting at?
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You already know it was a blatant misrepresentation, and it's just more of an attempt to paint those who want legal, safe abortion as "extremists".

Until you admit this, and discuss it honestly, you really are not going to get anywhere with me, pal.
 
Obscurity said:
You already know it was a blatant misrepresentation, and it's just more of an attempt to paint those who want legal, safe abortion as "extremists".

Until you admit this, and discuss it honestly, you really are not going to get anywhere with me, pal.
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In what way?
 
bubbabgone said:
In what way?
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Here is Sanders' Quote:

Sanders: The answer is yes. And the answer has everything to do with the fact that women in the United States of America, by the way, have a right to control their own bodies and make reproductive decisions. The Mexico City agreement, which denies American aid to those organizations around the world that allow women to have abortions or even get involved in birth control, to me is totally absurd. I think especially in poor countries around the world where women do not necessarily want to have large numbers of babies and where they can have the opportunity through birth control to control the number of kids they have, it’s something I very, very strongly support.
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Emphasis is mine. Sanders was discussing the Mexico City agreement, and specifically referenced BIRTH CONTROL and women's CHOICE. Nowhere did he say "We should use abortion for population control."

So please, take your intellectual dishonest elsewhere, get back on the topic, or go discuss something else with someone who cares to entertain your smears; we will -never- be able to have valid discourse with the misrepresentations by folks like you.
 
Obscurity said:
Here is Sanders' Quote:



Emphasis is mine. Sanders was discussing the Mexico City agreement, and specifically referenced BIRTH CONTROL and women's CHOICE. Nowhere did he say "We should use abortion for population control."

So please, take your intellectual dishonest elsewhere, get back on the topic, or go discuss something else with someone who cares to entertain your smears; we will -never- be able to have valid discourse with the misrepresentations by folks like you.
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I know what he said. I saw it and read it a number of times.
The question is ... since the context was climate change, was he looking to advance women's rights or encouraging population control when he said "...especially in poor countries around the world where women do not necessarily want to have large numbers of babies and where they can have the opportunity through birth control to control the number of kids they have..."?
 
bubbabgone said:
I know what he said. I saw it and read it a number of times.
The question is ... since the context was climate change, was he looking to advance women's rights or encouraging population control when he said "...especially in poor countries around the world where women do not necessarily want to have large numbers of babies and where they can have the opportunity through birth control to control the number of kids they have..."?
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The mexico city agreement restricts funding to nations that enable abortion; thus, the catastrophic side effect of these poor people not being able to afford basic needs like contraceptives. Of course, this is all by design.

But again, you already knew his intent. You already knew you were willingly embracing fake news and fringe lunatic commentary by a radical MSM proven now not to be liberal; it despises the most "left" candidate, Bernie Sanders, thus disproving one gigantic claim by the fake right populist authoritarians, period.
 
Obscurity said:
The mexico city agreement restricts funding to nations that enable abortion; thus, the catastrophic side effect of these poor people not being able to afford basic needs like contraceptives. Of course, this is all by design.
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What design is that? To overpopulate poor countries? Wouldn't that mean Bernie wants to put in place policies to control population growth?

But again, you already knew his intent. You already knew you were willingly embracing fake news and fringe lunatic commentary by a radical MSM proven now not to be liberal; it despises the most "left" candidate, Bernie Sanders, thus disproving one gigantic claim by the fake right populist authoritarians, period.
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You didn't answer what I asked.
"since the context was climate change was he looking to advance women's rights or encouraging population control when he said , was he [Bernie] looking to advance women's rights or encouraging population control when he said "...especially in poor countries around the world where women do not necessarily want to have large numbers of babies and where they can have the opportunity through birth control to control the number of kids they have..."?

Isn't it pretty clear he was looking to advance birth control/abortion as a method of population control "especially in poor countries" as a mechanism to fight climate control and not to advance women's rights?
It's the "especially in poor countries" part that makes one recall some familiar moments in left-wing history.
 
bubbabgone said:
What design is that? To overpopulate poor countries? Wouldn't that mean Bernie wants to put in place policies to control population growth?



You didn't answer what I asked.
"since the context was climate change was he looking to advance women's rights or encouraging population control when he said , was he [Bernie] looking to advance women's rights or encouraging population control when he said "...especially in poor countries around the world where women do not necessarily want to have large numbers of babies and where they can have the opportunity through birth control to control the number of kids they have..."?

Isn't it pretty clear he was looking to advance birth control/abortion as a method of population control "especially in poor countries" as a mechanism to fight climate control and not to advance women's rights?
It's the "especially in poor countries" part that makes one recall some familiar moments in left-wing history.
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Yawwwwwwn. Continue to misrepresent; I've made my point and will not tolerate any more banter with you.
 
Obscurity said:
Yawwwwwwn. Continue to misrepresent; I've made my point and will not tolerate any more banter with you.
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Misrepresentation isn't possible with direct quotes. But I understand your reluctance. Believe me.
 
bubbabgone said:
Misrepresentation isn't possible with direct quotes. But I understand your reluctance. Believe me.
Click to expand...

Oh no, there is nothing in his quote that condones abortion for population control.

What sort of mental gymnastics do you need to go through to justify your position?
 
Obscurity said:
Oh no, there is nothing in his quote that condones abortion for population control.

What sort of mental gymnastics do you need to go through to justify your position?
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No gymnastics here.
But it should be obvious to all by the question and his answer that his focus was on controlling population (using climate as the excuse) and not advancing women's rights.
C'mon man ... we're talking Socialist Bernie Sanders.
It's a Socialist thing.
Only mental gymnastics to explain someone not getting that.
 
bubbabgone said:
No gymnastics here.
But it should be obvious to all by the question and his answer that his focus was on controlling population (using climate as the excuse) and not advancing women's rights.
C'mon man ... we're talking Socialist Bernie Sanders.
It's a Socialist thing.
Only mental gymnastics to explain someone not getting that.
Click to expand...

Garbage reply. You know it, I know it, and with debate tactics like yours, dishonest swerves in logic to the absurd, it is no wonder left and right agree on nothing.

I have had enough of you. You are not being honest in this discussion, and I will tolerate it no further. Once you care to discuss things honestly, let me know, and apologize for lying and we can continue.
 
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