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We Know the Cure for Poverty: The Empowerment of Women

jonny5 said:
And much like cancer it can be avoidable and minimized. Women are empowered to avoid pregnancy and thus abortion. And if they were doing so, it probably wouldnt be such a hot issue. Im not anti abortion. Im anti this idea that women dont have any choice in getting pregnant. That abortion empowers them.
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Are you just assuming women do not try to avoid unwanted pregnancy? If so, why?

Here's a bit from my OneNote, for reference:

Actually, 68 percent of women of childbearing years in the US use artificial birth control consistently.

Another 22 percent:

-- Cannot become become pregnant due to a medical condition or procedure. (infertile or have been diagnosed as such)
-- or are currently pregnant and thus are not currently using birth control

That leaves 10 percent who do not use artificial birth control for whatever reason (some may be using the so called rhythm method. Or similar natural methods)


And now for the math:

--80-90% of American couples use birth control/have sex responsibly

--non-surgical birth control is only ~98% effective

--millions of Americans have sex millions and millions of times every day

--this means that there will still be 10s of thousands of accidental pregnancies every day.​
 
Iron_Merc said:
You don't think the negative effects of abortion on women have ripple effect on society?
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I asked you to prove it if it's a factor. Stop asking me just to avoid answering. I already made it clear that your presumption of long-term regret/harm for many women is not validated in the research...so of course it's silly to acknowledge some cumulative influence.
 
Lursa said:
Are you just assuming women do not try to avoid unwanted pregnancy? If so, why?

Here's a bit from my OneNote, for reference:

Actually, 68 percent of women of childbearing years in the US use artificial birth control consistently.

Another 22 percent:

-- Cannot become become pregnant due to a medical condition or procedure. (infertile or have been diagnosed as such)
-- or are currently pregnant and thus are not currently using birth control

That leaves 10 percent who do not use artificial birth control for whatever reason (some may be using the so called rhythm method. Or similar natural methods)


And now for the math:

--80-90% of American couples use birth control/have sex responsibly

--non-surgical birth control is only ~98% effective

--millions of Americans have sex millions and millions of times every day

--this means that there will still be 10s of thousands of accidental pregnancies every day.​
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Or those remaining 10% are actively trying to have a kid.
 
Lursa said:
Are you just assuming women do not try to avoid unwanted pregnancy? If so, why?

Here's a bit from my OneNote, for reference:

Actually, 68 percent of women of childbearing years in the US use artificial birth control consistently.

Another 22 percent:

-- Cannot become become pregnant due to a medical condition or procedure. (infertile or have been diagnosed as such)
-- or are currently pregnant and thus are not currently using birth control

That leaves 10 percent who do not use artificial birth control for whatever reason (some may be using the so called rhythm method. Or similar natural methods)


And now for the math:

--80-90% of American couples use birth control/have sex responsibly

--non-surgical birth control is only ~98% effective

--millions of Americans have sex millions and millions of times every day

--this means that there will still be 10s of thousands of accidental pregnancies every day.​
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I dont really see how those numbers can be established. There is no way 300 million people are reporting their sex life. However, yes, Im assuming given the anecdotal evidence of the number of abortions, teen mothers, single mothers with absent fathers, children in poverty, and neglected children, that there is a significant number of pregnancies that maybe weren't planned for or desired.

2% ineffectiveness in 1,000,000 protected sex interactions would be 20,000 possible pregnancies alone. Simply abstaining would lead to zero. Again, Im not anti-abortion. Just anti sex without taking full responsibility for consequences, such that society has to deal with some of the side effects.
 
jonny5 said:
I dont really see how those numbers can be established. There is no way 300 million people are reporting their sex life. However, yes, Im assuming given the anecdotal evidence of the number of abortions, teen mothers, single mothers with absent fathers, children in poverty, and neglected children, that there is a significant number of pregnancies that maybe weren't planned for or desired.

2% ineffectiveness in 1,000,000 protected sex interactions would be 20,000 possible pregnancies alone. Simply abstaining would lead to zero. Again, Im not anti-abortion. Just anti sex without taking full responsibility for consequences, such that society has to deal with some of the side effects.
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LOL...so you disagree with my admitted estimate of 300 million Americans having sex daily? Even with your figures, mine seem close.

And you seem to have come to the same conclusion as myself...that even responsible sex will lead to thousands of unplanned pregnancies a day.
 
Eriech said:
Sex without consequence is empowering? Killing without consequence empowering? Comments are mild compared to actions. Stacking mortal remains like cordwood in a basement is disgusting and grotesque. Selling body parts and profiteering from killing the innocent is disgusting and grotesque.
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What's disgusting and grotesque is wanting to force women to gestate and give birth against their will.
 
Scrabaholic said:
What's disgusting and grotesque is wanting to force women to gestate and give birth against their will.
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Whats more disgusting is murdering the product of a woman's irresponsible indiscretion and indecision because the child is inconvenient. Sounds exactly like a lot of ******s who pretend to be men that dont want to man up and take care of their **** up. The irony. Like a man wants the ***** without the responsibility, the woman wants dick without the responsibility. Homicide is homicide in or out of the womb.
 
jonny5 said:
And much like cancer it can be avoidable and minimized. Women are empowered to avoid pregnancy and thus abortion. And if they were doing so, it probably wouldnt be such a hot issue. Im not anti abortion. Im anti this idea that women dont have any choice in getting pregnant. That abortion empowers them.
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Women cannot will themselves to get or not get pregnant. If they could, there'd be no need for abortion or fertility clinics.

I have yet to see anyone here say abortion is empowering.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Whats more disgusting is murdering the product of a woman's irresponsible indiscretion and indecision because the child is inconvenient. Sounds exactly like a lot of ******s who pretend to be men that dont want to man up and take care of their **** up. The irony. Like a man wants the ***** without the responsibility, the woman wants dick without the responsibility. Homicide is homicide in or out of the womb.
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Abortion is not murder. Most women who abort are in a steady relationship with the man who got them pregnant.

Do let us know when *your* body will suffer the ravages of pregnancy and childbirth.
 
Scrabaholic said:
Abortion is not murder. Most women who abort are in a steady relationship with the man who got them pregnant.

Do let us know when *your* body will suffer the ravages of pregnancy and childbirth.
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Not my problem. They wanted dick and opened their legs and they knew the consequences and did it anyhow. Yes it is indeed homicide for the sake of convenience and abrogation of their responsibility.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Whats more disgusting is murdering the product of a woman's irresponsible indiscretion and indecision because the child is inconvenient. Sounds exactly like a lot of ******s who pretend to be men that dont want to man up and take care of their **** up. The irony. Like a man wants the ***** without the responsibility, the woman wants dick without the responsibility. Homicide is homicide in or out of the womb.
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Who says? What authority?

Not our laws, and not our Constitution.

Constitutionally, women's rights to bodily sovereignty, self-determination, due process, privacy (reproductive/familial/medical), etc. are all protected. The unborn's specifically are not.
 
Lursa said:
Who says? What authority?

Not our laws, and not our Constitution.

Constitutionally, women's rights to bodily sovereignty, self-determination, due process, privacy (reproductive/familial/medical), etc. are all protected. The unborn's specifically are not.
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Its murder. You know it, I know it. Enough said.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Whats more disgusting is murdering the product of a woman's irresponsible indiscretion and indecision because the child is inconvenient. Sounds exactly like a lot of ******s who pretend to be men that dont want to man up and take care of their **** up. The irony. Like a man wants the ***** without the responsibility, the woman wants dick without the responsibility. Homicide is homicide in or out of the womb.
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What’s disgusting is seeing so much ignorance in one post.
 
Scrabaholic said:
Women cannot will themselves to get or not get pregnant. If they could, there'd be no need for abortion or fertility clinics.

I have yet to see anyone here say abortion is empowering.
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Its in the OP. And women can will or not will themselves to get pregnant through not having sex. Same as men.
 
Lursa said:
LOL...so you disagree with my admitted estimate of 300 million Americans having sex daily? Even with your figures, mine seem close.

And you seem to have come to the same conclusion as myself...that even responsible sex will lead to thousands of unplanned pregnancies a day.
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Sure, and so long as both women and men dont act like they had no choice, and take full responsibility, I have no issue. But as I said, there is plenty of anecdotal evidence of irresponsible sexual behavior, leading to negative effects on society. Which includes abortion.
 
calamity said:
What’s disgusting is seeing so much ignorance in one post.
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Its blunt fact. Tip toeing around the bush doesn't cut the mustard in this "debate". Dont care if you find it disgusting because I find premeditated murder worse, especially over a preventable a cause.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Not my problem. They wanted dick and opened their legs and they knew the consequences and did it anyhow. Yes it is indeed homicide for the sake of convenience and abrogation of their responsibility.
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Homicide is killing of a human being. The zef is not a human being so abortion is not homicide.
 
jonny5 said:
Its in the OP. And women can will or not will themselves to get pregnant through not having sex. Same as men.
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Can you repeat that in understandable English? How does one will herself to be pregnant by not having sex?
 
Scrabaholic said:
Homicide is killing of a human being. The zef is not a human being so abortion is not homicide.
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Some people, most of them on the pro-birther side, know not the difference between human and human being. :shrug:
 
Scrabaholic said:
Homicide is killing of a human being. The zef is not a human being so abortion is not homicide.
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Its homicide period end of sentence. There are laws on the books in many states and countries that say just that. You use the term zef, zygot, fetus to attempt to make your argument, which is a failure when it boiled down to the essentials, that you as a woman want to be able to kill your baby in the womb whenever you damn well feel like it. Some also use those terms so they can avoid reality. Its still killing a hominid whether you call it murder or not. Bottom line its homicide.

You may think I am against abortion, I am not. I dont care what you do with your children. Keep em, kill em makes no difference to me. If you claim the right to butcher them, then I have the right to raise mine as I see fit without intrusion. Otherwise you're just another in a long line of hypocrites. I have problem with people that butcher their own, but feel the right, if not need, to interfere in my raising of mine. **** them.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Its homicide period end of sentence. There are laws on the books in many states ....
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In the United States the killing of a fetus is called feticide not homicide. Not all states have Feticide laws but the states with laws against feticide also make clear that abortions within the parameters of Roe are legal.
 
minnie616 said:
In the United States the killing of a fetus is called feticide not homicide. Not all states have Feticide laws but the states with laws against feticide also make clear that abortions within the parameters of Roe are legal.
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Homicide period end of sentence. You can call it however you like, justify it as you like, it is still bottom line homicide.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Homicide period end of sentence. You can call it however you like, justify it as you like, it is still bottom line homicide.
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False. Period.
 
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