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We Know the Cure for Poverty: The Empowerment of Women

RaleBulgarian said:
A better reference (same site);
Our Services

Planned Parenthood is one of the nation’s leading providers of high-quality, affordable health care, and the nation’s largest provider of sex education. We offer compassionate care, backed by medical experts and more than 100 years of research in reproductive health.

Abortion Services

Abortion is a safe and legal way to end pregnancy. There are two kinds of abortion in the U.S. — in-clinic abortion and the abortion pill. Some Planned Parenthood health centers provide one or both kinds of abortion.

Abortion is very common. 3 in 10 women in the U.S. will have an abortion by the time they’re 45 years old.

The decision to have an abortion is very personal, and only you can decide what’s best for you. But we’re here to help answer whatever questions you may have, and make sure you get the care you need.
Our Services | Affordable Healthcare & Sex Education

Please explain how the above promotes abortions.
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Nothing you posted disputes what I said.
 
Rickeroo said:
I'd accept abortions that save the mother's life. However, I don't think 1 in 5 pregnancies result in a mortal threat to the mother, who then gets an abortion to save her life. Using round figures, 3.9 million births per year, resulting in 936 maternal deaths. Assuming abortion is outlawed and all abortions save the mother's life, there would be about 630,000 maternal deaths per year, and 4.5 million births. 1 in 5 (roughly) would die in childbirth.
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Nobody cares what you'd accept. We have a Constitution that protects us from people like you.

Again...responding with nothing but numbers. I spoke of the true, real-life human cost. And you didnt address it at all. You just basically repeated yourself. With dehumanizing numbers.

Please address what I wrote, instead of reducing women and the unborn to numbers:

So you are using just numbers as the basis for your view?

That's pretty dehumanizing. Esp. when Minnie has explained that every single pregnancy is a real risk to a woman's life...it cant be predicted and it cant always be prevented. We dont know....and you know very well that it's true. Every single woman going into labor is afraid. Her husband/bf fears for her life and that of the baby. Every friend and family member waiting to hear is also worried. The risks are real...that's why we all worry.

And since we dont know...who are you to force that risk on women you dont even know? (If you would see laws that did so). The govt doesnt. The Const protects women from that.

The risk to women is significant and if you want to look at numbers, think about the real loss here, the effects in real life. If she dies, then her husband/bf, parents, other children, brothers, sisters, other relatives, friends...all lose a loved one. Why do you value the loss of the unborn more than this? This is reality for these people. Is it the same for the unborn? Except for the prospective parents...not likely.

It's about way more than numbers.​
 
Overitall said:
I can understand why. She was the founder of PP and it's clearly an organization promoting abortion. So there is a slim connection. The ole saying "An apple doesn't fall far from the tree." comes to mind. Anyways, I know you admire her and I'll leave it at that.
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Please source where PP promotes abortion.

Lursa said:
Why does this matter at all today? (previously posted)


Not this again :roll:

Blaming Margaret Sanger's views on racism/eugenics for *today's* PP organization is like blaming the FF's like Jefferson & Washington, who kept slaves for how we interpret the Constitution *today.* Society evolves and moves on and institutions do so as well.

If you want to throw out PP because of Sanger's views, shall we throw out the Constitution as well because of slave-owning founders? :doh​
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Lursa said:
And where does that fall in with the other medical services and procedures and birth control and counseling they offer? :doh
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cricket cricket cricket
 
Overitall said:
Yea, sorry for that. I tried to fix it without success. Anyways, the quote is from PP site itself. I'm not sure if it (PP) can be called a propaganda site though.

Where Can I Get an In-Clinic Abortion?
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LMAO...so an answer to a direct question *about abortion* is promotion? :roll:

Can you not even read your own bias? It's palpable. Unless it's intentional dishonesty.
 
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Overitall said:
cricket cricket cricket
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I dont understand your responses. THat's twice now with no content for discussion.

Can you respond to my question or not?
 
Lursa said:
I dont understand your responses. THat's twice now with no content for discussion.

Can you respond to my question or not?
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Lursa I took you off my ignore list only for the purpose of being able to read your posts whenever I'm online. But I have no desire to discuss anything with you. I believe it's best for both of us.
 
Overitall said:
Lursa I took you off my ignore list only for the purpose of being able to read your posts whenever I'm online. But I have no desire to discuss anything with you. I believe it's best for both of us.
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No worries...my responses are here for all to consider...and that's esp. fine when I refute your arguments and you choose not to defend them.
 
Overitall -- resist. Don't let the dark side of the force overcome you. :)
 
Scrabaholic said:
Incorrect. She did not want word to get out that she was trying to exterminate blacks BECAUSE SHE WASN'T trying to exterminate them. She felt that blacks would believe their fellow blacks before they believed a white woman.
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THANK YOU for articulating that, you get the point across and I see it clearly now. She was merely pushing back from the notion that some black clientele may incorrectly surmise that they (planned parenthood) wants to exterminate the black race.


I guess "keep it in check" would be more fitting. Eugenics are a tricky business. It can often lead to genocide, mass sterilization and other problems. I guess what I'm saying is its a slippery slope. A good example of taking it too far would be Nazi Germany. In that case embracing unfettered "eugenics" led to the exhalation of the pure German race and death of over 8 million jews and other minorities. In the United States "eugenics" has lead to the death of over 50 million babies, since 1973.

I will include another quote. I am not trolling here I legitimately want to hear your honest opinion and your interpretation of the context:
margaret-sanger-quote.jpg
 
The op does realize Hitchens was against abortion right?
 
Iron_Merc said:
Well, it appears Planned Parenthood doesn't mind butchering black babies after all.
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So....how do we know that the number of African-American abortions than white? Please make an argument, not post some kind of propaganda.

You couldnt even address what I posted...that the PP organization today has moved on from its founder's personal opinions.
 
Lursa said:
So....how do we know that the number of African-American abortions than white? Please make an argument, not post some kind of propaganda.

You couldnt even address what I posted...that the PP organization today has moved on from its founder's personal opinions.
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I will address all your points, sorry I missed it. In regards to PP moving on, well I don't see that because if anything it is still an organization that kills babies. I believe it is an ethical or moral obligation to keep the baby, this is why I still am opposed to the very fundamentals of planned parenthood.

I don't feel like we should play God with our human race, in my opinion that's just asking for trouble. Sure, abortion is legal in the eyes of the law, but there is a higher court than that of man.

(CNSNews.com) – Although black Americans comprise 13.4% of the U.S. population, they accounted for 36.0% of the abortions in 2015, which was almost identical to the percentage of abortions (36.9%) that year among white Americans, who make up 76.6% of the population.
As the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) documented in its Abortion Surveillance report for 2015 – released on Nov. 23, 2018 – there were 124,893 white abortions and 121,829 black abortions that year, a difference of 3,064 babies killed. (See Table 12.)
The population numbers come from the U.S. Census Bureau, here.

In large part, the abortion numbers are in actuality, much higher because the reporting is voluntary. So we have legitimate or confirmed reporting from 1973 until 2015 that tells us at least 47 million babies have been killed through Planned Parenthood. That's not a statistic that Mother Teresa would be happy with.
 
Iron_Merc said:
I will address all your points, sorry I missed it. In regards to PP moving on, well I don't see that because if anything it is still an organization that kills babies. I believe it is an ethical or moral obligation to keep the baby, this is why I still am opposed to the very fundamentals of planned parenthood.

I don't feel like we should play God with our human race, in my opinion that's just asking for trouble. Sure, abortion is legal in the eyes of the law, but there is a higher court than that of man.

(CNSNews.com) – Although black Americans comprise 13.4% of the U.S. population, they accounted for 36.0% of the abortions in 2015, which was almost identical to the percentage of abortions (36.9%) that year among white Americans, who make up 76.6% of the population.
As the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) documented in its Abortion Surveillance report for 2015 – released on Nov. 23, 2018 – there were 124,893 white abortions and 121,829 black abortions that year, a difference of 3,064 babies killed. (See Table 12.)
The population numbers come from the U.S. Census Bureau, here.

In large part, the abortion numbers are in actuality, much higher because the reporting is voluntary. So we have legitimate or confirmed reporting from 1973 until 2015 that tells us at least 47 million babies have been killed through Planned Parenthood. That's not a statistic that Mother Teresa would be happy with.
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Not true...Killing babies is almost always classified as 'murder', which is 'illegal.'. If PP had 'murdered' just one baby, PP would be charged viz LEO/DOJ guidelines., as well as the recipient. The silly claim about a higher court that that of man is also complete and total B.S.
 
Iron_Merc said:
I will address all your points, sorry I missed it. In regards to PP moving on, well I don't see that because if anything it is still an organization that kills babies. I believe it is an ethical or moral obligation to keep the baby, this is why I still am opposed to the very fundamentals of planned parenthood. ...

.
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The Planned Parenthood Federation started in 1952 to help women have access to birth control and family planning information.

They did not provide abortions in the 1950s and 60s.

Roe was not passed until late 1972.
 
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Logician Man said:
Not true...Killing babies is almost always classified as 'murder', which is 'illegal.'. If PP had 'murdered' just one baby, PP would be charged viz LEO/DOJ guidelines., as well as the recipient. The silly claim about a higher court that that of man is also complete and total B.S.
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So I'm curious then, what substitute will you call the killing of babies / how would you phrase that in your legal construct?

And here is the rub.

Legal in mans eyes

Murder in Gods eyes

I understand your point of view makes perfect sense if operating from the perspective of your sin nature. But there is a moral code, whether you chose to ignore it is up to you. We all have free will.
 
Iron_Merc said:
So I'm curious then, what substitute will you call the killing of babies / how would you phrase that in your legal construct?

And here is the rub.

Legal in mans eyes

Murder in Gods eyes

I understand your point of view makes perfect sense if operating from the perspective of your sin nature. But there is a moral code, whether you chose to ignore it is up to you. We all have free will.
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Here's the real rub. You're making positive claims about things you haven't met your Burden of Proof on. Until/unless you successfully complete that assignment, you're merely presenting 'opinions', not 'facts.' Inability to meet Burden of Proof means your positives claims are meaningless, and easily dismissed with the same veracity with which they were presented. ( debating 101 )
 
minnie616 said:
The Planned Parenthood Federation started in 1952 to help women have access to birth control and family planning information.

They did not provide abortions in the 1950s and 60s.

Roe was not passed until late 1972.
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For me, everything about PP is eclipsed by the practice of abortion. If Planned Parenthood does good things for the neighborhood, more power to them. But I still cant justify that in the face of close to 50 million abortions and that is a very low estimate. These are humans who had no chance. So I fight for life, you better believe it. I want to protect the unborn baby, not bring harm to it!
 
Iron_Merc said:
For me, everything about PP is eclipsed by the practice of abortion. If Planned Parenthood does good things for the neighborhood, more power to them. But I still cant justify that in the face of close to 50 million abortions and that is a very low estimate. These are humans who had no chance. So I fight for life, you better believe it. I want to protect the unborn baby, not bring harm to it!
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What, 'precisely', do you do to 'fight for life' for the unborn ? How much skin do you actually have in the game other than tapping on a keyboard in a chat forum ? ( if anything )
 
Logician Man said:
Here's the real rub. You're making positive claims about things you haven't met your Burden of Proof on. Until/unless you successfully complete that assignment, you're merely presenting 'opinions', not 'facts.' Inability to meet Burden of Proof means your positives claims are meaningless, and easily dismissed with the same veracity with which they were presented. ( debating 101 )
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Honestly I'm new to debating.. I am a "newborn" on the forum here, only 2 days old. I was not aborted.

That being said, I will do my best too get you the facts. Where shall we start? Do you want information on the total number of abortions?

Just name specifics and I will do my best to get you the relevant data.
 
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