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We Know the Cure for Poverty: The Empowerment of Women

Overitall said:
Scrabaholic, while I generally agree with your position on Sanger (historically) I am wondering whether she couldn't have just been using a black man to prevent scrutiny coming down upon her organization. It wouldn't be the first time someone used black people to further their own agenda when the need presented itself.
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There is nothing to indicate as such.
 
Scrabaholic said:
There is nothing to indicate as such.
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No, maybe not. Still, looking at her statement it could be so. What would make people think that she did want to exterminate BP? So why the need?
 
Scrabaholic said:
Some people want to smear her name.
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I can understand why. She was the founder of PP and it's clearly an organization promoting abortion. So there is a slim connection. The ole saying "An apple doesn't fall far from the tree." comes to mind. Anyways, I know you admire her and I'll leave it at that.
 
Overitall said:
I can understand why. She was the founder of PP and it's clearly an organization promoting abortion. So there is a slim connection. The ole saying "An apple doesn't fall far from the tree." comes to mind. Anyways, I know you admire her and I'll leave it at that.
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I don't have any feelings toward her. I just correct misinformation.
 
Mashmont said:
This angers me a lot to see the greatest of the great people slandered like this, while giving homage to a disgusting angry godless person like Hitchens who didn't lift a finger to help mankind, unlike this great woman, Mother Teresa, who donated her life to God.

You can insult me all you like, but there are three people you MAY NOT insult: Mother Teresa, President Trump, and Rush Limbaugh. I hope I made myself perfectly understood.
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I am not sure what is the most comical...
That you insist that we can not insult people or that you put Trump and Rush on the same level as Mother Teresa...

And **** Rush... the guy is a bitch.
 
Pretty sure that if Sanger had never been caught sleeping with a black man she would never have been so spiteful.
 
Rickeroo said:
The maternal death rate is 24 per 100,000 births. Assuming a 19% willful abortion rate, 123,457 pregnancies must happen in order to get 100,000 births, this allows for 23,457 abortions, with 24 women dying, per 100,000 births.

Whatever percent of abortions are done to save the mother's life, I agree with. What is that figure?
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First of all your stats are wrong.

In the US the abortion rate is 17 percent as of 2014. That includes all abortions ...not just the elective abortions.
That even includes the hospital abortions where labor is induced early or a c-section is performed because the fetus is already dead or would not live for more than a few minutes or hours if it survived birth.

It includes abortions that were performed because the fetus had catastrophic deformities.

So your stats mean nothing to me.

What is more important to me is that the woman is a moral agent.

She is the one who risks her life/her long term health to become a mother and she should have the decision if she wishes to take the chance to continue her pregnancy.

Over 60 percent of women who have abortions have at least one child they are raising. Each pregnancy may put added stress on her resources and her decision whether her health and her life circumstances would allow her to care for a new addition while she is still able to take of her family present and future.

Also you seemed NOT to understand that 1 out 10 pregnancies puts the life or her long term health at risk.

For every woman who dies from pregnancy and/ or childbirth complications 70 more women had near misses. Many of those misses involve life long complications.

My daughter ( who had HELLP syndrome ) has complications, my first pregnancy damaged my kidneys and ( another DP member of this forum ) Year2late also has lifelong complications.

It seems you only focus on deaths and care nothing about the women who suffered strokes, heart attacks, paralysis from the neck down , kidney damage , liver damage , etc.
 
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Scrabaholic said:
I don't have any feelings toward her. I just correct misinformation.
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The problem with that is information can be manipulated or re-written. Then you're left with which you prefer to believe. It's a noble pursuit -- to correct someone else's interpretation of information.
 
eman623 said:
Why is it that progressives have this authoritarian need to "fix" people who have different opinions than themselves? Agree to disagree is not in their worldview.
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Why are conservative such emotionally fragile pedants, who go into a meltdown whenever someone says a word they don't like?
 
Rickeroo said:
A few things tell me that if a fetus is allowed time enough choose, it would not choose to end its life. We see this in the 0.0143% suicide rate. We have all matured past our fetal stage, and 99.9857% of us are "choosing" to live each year.

Conversely, the willful abortion rate is 1228% higher than the suicide rate. To put that in perspective, a drive from Boston to LA is 2983 miles. Because of suicide, people lie dead in the first half mile of the trip. Because of abortion, dead fetuses are strewn for 566 miles. It's a math thing for me - I just don't see the same willingness in adults to off themselves at the same rate they would off "not themselves".
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Man, those are some crazy numbers. Good thing fetuses are nonsentient clumps of meat with no actual sentience or personhood, otherwise it would be bad to abort them.
 
Iron_Merc said:
Why cant you explain what Sanger was trying to articulate? Its a very simple couple of sentences.

Ill repeat it here in case you forgot:

“We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members,”
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As explained in my post #202

In fact, in the context of the debate Sanger was having with other members of the Birth Control Federation, the real meaning was almost certainly that she believed that black leadership was necessary to prevent the mistaken belief that the purpose of the project was racist.

In another quote from this debate Sanger stated: "I do not believe that this project should be directed or run by white medical men. The Federation should direct it with the guidance and assistance of the colored group... " Sanger herself said of the Negro Project (which was supported by prominent African-American civil rights activists like W.E.B. DuBois and Mary Bethune McLeod) that it was designed to help:

"a group notoriously underprivileged and handicapped to a large measure by a ‘caste' system that operates as an added weight upon their efforts to get a fair share of the better things in life. To give them the means of helping themselves is perhaps the richest gift of all. We believe birth control knowledge brought to this group, is the most direct, constructive aid that can be given them to improve their immediate situation."
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Margaret Sanger, Planned Parenthood, and Racism
 
WCH said:
By letting women be god-less murdering whores?
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Is that representative of your relationship with women. Even more reason for religious conservatives to be cut off from the conversation about anything having to do with women, family, reproduction, sex, and religion.
 
Mashmont said:
You can insult me all you like, but there are three people you MAY NOT insult: Mother Teresa, President Trump, and Rush Limbaugh. I hope I made myself perfectly understood.
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Bwahahahaha!!!:2rofll: Get a clue!
Trump and Limbaugh are both lying, hate filled pieces of ****.

Am I perfectly understood? :mrgreen:
 
Overitall said:
I can understand why. She was the founder of PP and it's clearly an organization promoting abortion. So there is a slim connection. The ole saying "An apple doesn't fall far from the tree." comes to mind. Anyways, I know you admire her and I'll leave it at that.
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Actually, In 1921 Sanger founded the American Birth Control League which was adamantly against abortion.

Sanger died of congestive heart failure in 1966 in Tucson, Arizona, aged 86, about a year after the U.S. Supreme Court case Griswold v. Connecticut, which legalized birth control in the United States

Planned Parenthoods were around long before Roe vs Wade.
 
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Iron_Merc said:
Why cant you explain what Sanger was trying to articulate? Its a very simple couple of sentences.

Ill repeat it here in case you forgot:

“We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members,”
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That's deliberately quoted out of context. Sanger was a champion for birth control for all poor women debilitated by multiple pregnancies and too many children, who were kept ignorant of contraceptives and managing family size. She sponsored birth controls clinics for immigrants of all kinds for native caucasians, blacks everyone. Here's her letter in toto. Read it and try making it into a a call to exterminate Black women

“Dear Dr. Gamble,

(Three paragraphs about his health, recent contributions, organizational matters)

“There is only one thing that I would like to be in touch with and that is the Negro Project of the South which, if the execution of the details remain in Miss Rose's hands, my suggestions will not be confusing because she knows the way my mind works

Miss Rose sent me a copy of your letter of December 5th and I note that you doubt it worthwhile to employ a full time Negro physician. It seems to me from my experience where I have been in North Carolina, Georgia, Tennessee and Texas, that while the colored Negroes have great respect for white doctors they can get closer to their own members and more or less lay their cards on the table which means their ignorance, superstitions and doubts. They do not do this with the white people and if we can train the Negro doctor at the Clinic he can go among them with enthusiasm and with knowledge, which, I believe, will have far-reaching results among the colored people. His work in my opinion should be entirely with the Negro profession and the nurses, hospital, social workers, as well as the County's white doctors. His success will depend upon his personality and his training by us

The ministers work is also important and also he should be trained, perhaps by the Federation as to our ideals and the goal that we hope to reach. We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members

(Three paragraphs about the competence of Miss Rose, Dr. Gamble’s and Mrs. Timme’s health, and regards to wife)

Sincerely yours
MS/mh Margaret Sanger”
 
weaver2 said:
That's deliberately quoted out of context. Sanger was a champion for birth control for all poor women debilitated by multiple pregnancies and too many children, who were kept ignorant of contraceptives and managing family size. She sponsored birth controls clinics for immigrants of all kinds for native caucasians, blacks everyone. Here's her letter in toto. Read it and try making it into a a call to exterminate Black women

“Dear Dr. Gamble,

(Three paragraphs about his health, recent contributions, organizational matters)

“There is only one thing that I would like to be in touch with and that is the Negro Project of the South which, if the execution of the details remain in Miss Rose's hands, my suggestions will not be confusing because she knows the way my mind works

Miss Rose sent me a copy of your letter of December 5th and I note that you doubt it worthwhile to employ a full time Negro physician. It seems to me from my experience where I have been in North Carolina, Georgia, Tennessee and Texas, that while the colored Negroes have great respect for white doctors they can get closer to their own members and more or less lay their cards on the table which means their ignorance, superstitions and doubts. They do not do this with the white people and if we can train the Negro doctor at the Clinic he can go among them with enthusiasm and with knowledge, which, I believe, will have far-reaching results among the colored people. His work in my opinion should be entirely with the Negro profession and the nurses, hospital, social workers, as well as the County's white doctors. His success will depend upon his personality and his training by us

The ministers work is also important and also he should be trained, perhaps by the Federation as to our ideals and the goal that we hope to reach. We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members

(Three paragraphs about the competence of Miss Rose, Dr. Gamble’s and Mrs. Timme’s health, and regards to wife)

Sincerely yours
MS/mh Margaret Sanger”
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Why are the anti-abortion advocates against the work of Ms Sanger. She was adamant that abortion was evil. She was for healthy babies and mothers. Isn't that the goal of the anti-abortion movement : non-aborted healthy babies. Her ideals were identical to yours; preventing abortion. Why the anger and hostility????
 
Overitall said:
I can understand why. She was the founder of PP and it's clearly an organization promoting abortion. So there is a slim connection. The ole saying "An apple doesn't fall far from the tree." comes to mind. Anyways, I know you admire her and I'll leave it at that.
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PP doesn’t promote abortion.
 
minnie616 said:
Actually, In 1921 Sanger founded the American Birth Control League which was adamantly against abortion.

Sanger died of congestive heart failure in 1966 in Tucson, Arizona, aged 86, about a year after the U.S. Supreme Court case Griswold v. Connecticut, which legalized birth control in the United States

Planned Parenthoods were around long before Roe vs Wade.
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Overitall said:
Really? I didn't know that.

Our History
| Planned Parenthood of the Southern Finger Lakes
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Yes,really.

In 1937, Sanger became chairman of the newly formed Birth Control Council of America, and attempted to resolve the schism between the ABCL and the BCCRB. Her efforts were successful, and the two organizations merged in 1939 as the Birth Control Federation of America.
Sanger continued in the role of president but she no longer had the same power as she had in the early years of the movement.

In 1948, Sanger helped found the International Committee on Planned Parenthood, which evolved into the International Planned Parenthood Federation in 1952.
( 1952 was 21 years before Roe was decided.)

She died in 1966 at the age of 86 ( 7 years before Roe and 14 years ( after the Planned Parenthood Federation was formed.)
 
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minnie616 said:
Yes,really.

In 1937, Sanger became chairman of the newly formed Birth Control Council of America, and attempted to resolve the schism between the ABCL and the BCCRB. Her efforts were successful, and the two organizations merged in 1939 as the Birth Control Federation of America.
Sanger continued in the role of president but she no longer had the same power as she had in the early years of the movement.

In 1948, Sanger helped found the International Committee on Planned Parenthood, which evolved into the International Planned Parenthood Federation in 1952.
( 1952 was 21 years before Roe was decided.)

She died in 1966 at the age of 86 ( 7 years before Roe and 14 years ( after the Planned Parenthood Federation was formed.)
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Minnie are you disagreeing with PP? Reading from the link I provided one would find this:

Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood
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Overitall said:
Yea, sorry for that. I tried to fix it without success. Anyways, the quote is from PP site itself. I'm not sure if it (PP) can be called a propaganda site though.

Where Can I Get an In-Clinic Abortion?
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A better reference (same site);
Our Services

Planned Parenthood is one of the nation’s leading providers of high-quality, affordable health care, and the nation’s largest provider of sex education. We offer compassionate care, backed by medical experts and more than 100 years of research in reproductive health.

Abortion Services

Abortion is a safe and legal way to end pregnancy. There are two kinds of abortion in the U.S. — in-clinic abortion and the abortion pill. Some Planned Parenthood health centers provide one or both kinds of abortion.

Abortion is very common. 3 in 10 women in the U.S. will have an abortion by the time they’re 45 years old.

The decision to have an abortion is very personal, and only you can decide what’s best for you. But we’re here to help answer whatever questions you may have, and make sure you get the care you need.
Our Services | Affordable Healthcare & Sex Education

Please explain how the above promotes abortions.
 
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