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Thread: [W:155] Can someone support women’s rights and oppose abortion?

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    [W:155] Can someone support women’s rights and oppose abortion?

    I have to admit, when I first joined this forum I was totally against abortion. Now that I have had a few discussions about it, I’m not so sure. The biggest thing is that even if abortion becomes illegal it won’t stop. I still lean toward opposing abortion, because it’s been instilled in me from a young age that it’s just wrong. I do see that some woman feel the need to at least have the “right” to choose. So my question remains, “Can someone support women’s rights and oppose abortion?”

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    re: [W:155] Can someone support women’s rights and oppose abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorps2000 View Post
    I have to admit, when I first joined this forum I was totally against abortion. Now that I have had a few discussions about it, I’m not so sure. The biggest thing is that even if abortion becomes illegal it won’t stop. I still lean toward opposing abortion, because it’s been instilled in me from a young age that it’s just wrong. I do see that some woman feel the need to at least have the “right” to choose. So my question remains, “Can someone support women’s rights and oppose abortion?”
    Yes, there are many women and men out there that oppose abortion (for themselves) but agree a woman has the right to choose what goes on in her own body. Not too difficult a concept there.
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    re: [W:155] Can someone support women’s rights and oppose abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorps2000 View Post
    I have to admit, when I first joined this forum I was totally against abortion. Now that I have had a few discussions about it, I’m not so sure. The biggest thing is that even if abortion becomes illegal it won’t stop. I still lean toward opposing abortion, because it’s been instilled in me from a young age that it’s just wrong. I do see that some woman feel the need to at least have the “right” to choose. So my question remains, “Can someone support women’s rights and oppose abortion?”
    There is nothing uniquely feminine about murder so yes.
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    re: [W:155] Can someone support women’s rights and oppose abortion?

    I don’t see why not. I support lots of different kinds of rights but that doesn’t mean I think any of them are unconditional.

    I’ve also preferred talking about abortion in the context of a “pregnant person” rather than “woman”, not least because it helps argue against people who contrast the rights and responsibilities of mothers and fathers with in child support et al (it’s never actually convinced anyone as far as I’m aware but it’s still a valid argument iMO ).

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    re: [W:155] Can someone support women’s rights and oppose abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Praxas View Post
    Yes, there are many women and men out there that oppose abortion (for themselves) but agree a woman has the right to choose what goes on in her own body. Not too difficult a concept there.
    I disagree, if your opinion is that abortion is murder it's very difficult. Why do so many people that feel a woman's right to choose is "not too difficult a concept"? You are actually giving a woman the right to terminate a potential child’s life.

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    re: [W:155] Can someone support women’s rights and oppose abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorps2000 View Post
    I have to admit, when I first joined this forum I was totally against abortion. Now that I have had a few discussions about it, I’m not so sure. The biggest thing is that even if abortion becomes illegal it won’t stop. I still lean toward opposing abortion, because it’s been instilled in me from a young age that it’s just wrong. I do see that some woman feel the need to at least have the “right” to choose. So my question remains, “Can someone support women’s rights and oppose abortion?”
    Good thread. Penetrating question. Welcome to DP.

    Can someone support women’s rights and oppose abortion?

    Yes. That is precisely my position in this matter.

    Every human being is a moral agent, responsible for his/her free moral choices.
    A woman is a human being.
    A woman is responsible for her moral choices.

    Responsibility implies the right to make those choices.

    Every human being has the right to choose to his/her moral acts.
    Moral acts includes acts that are right and acts that are wrong.
    Every human being has a right to choose to perform an immoral act.
    That's what moral freedom means.

    All of the above is irrespective of the law in any particular case.

    Whether abortion is legal or illegal, a woman is a free moral agent with the right to choose to act morally or immorally.

    Abortion, except where the life of the woman is at stake, is immoral.
    Abortion is the termination of a human life and, therefore, immoral.

    But the woman has a right to abort.
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    re: [W:155] Can someone support women’s rights and oppose abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorps2000 View Post
    I have to admit, when I first joined this forum I was totally against abortion. Now that I have had a few discussions about it, I’m not so sure. The biggest thing is that even if abortion becomes illegal it won’t stop. I still lean toward opposing abortion, because it’s been instilled in me from a young age that it’s just wrong. I do see that some woman feel the need to at least have the “right” to choose. So my question remains, “Can someone support women’s rights and oppose abortion?”
    Women's rights is an ambiguous concept, just as is human rights. Those rights are whatever society believes them to be strongly enough to encode them into law.

    So based on that, the answer seems to be both yes and no.
    "Facts don't care about your feelings, but they care about mine!" - Republicans, 2019.

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    re: [W:155] Can someone support women’s rights and oppose abortion?

    Short on time here this am, so will post this for now and check back later:

    I'm pro-choice and my view is that it is about women's rights...and the effects the violations to our rights would have on women and society in general. Our rights to bodily sovereignty, self-determination, preserving our health and lives, due process, and privacy are all protected under the Constitution, yet pro-life supporters are willing to see these all violated in order to provide the same exact things to the unborn...at our expense. As if the unborn are "more deserving." They seem to value the unborn more than women who's behavior they disapprove of.

    It's not possible to treat born and unborn equally under the law. (Or if it is, I'm still waiting to see that explained)

    Summary: I value the unborn but I value all born people more.

    Also, people seem to forget that if elective abortion were made illegal...then the govt is obligated to track, identify, and stop women from having them...which would require force, of law and otherwise...and what that actually entails for women's lives and society.
    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    This seems less like palliative care and more like a last meal.
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    Parrots of the Caribbean For Abortion!
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    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    re: [W:155] Can someone support women’s rights and oppose abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Angel View Post

    Abortion, except where the life of the woman is at stake, is immoral.
    Abortion is the termination of a human life and, therefore, immoral.


    But the woman has a right to abort.
    Who says? What moral authority claims that? I'm sure some do...plenty of religions for example.

    So...what authority are you basing your opinion on?


    Because it leads to the conclusion that life alone...a heartbeat...is the most important thing...because your claim means that all else is secondary after breathing, basic existence.

    For myself, I believe in a person's right to self-determination and the entirety of a life as it's lived...more about "who they are" than "what'. All higher animals have a heartbeat...that criteria alone does not separate us from the rest of the animal kingdom.

    I guess I just believe in quality of life over quantity.
    Last edited by Lursa; 10-08-19 at 01:59 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    This seems less like palliative care and more like a last meal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angel View Post
    Parrots of the Caribbean For Abortion!
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    re: [W:155] Can someone support women’s rights and oppose abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Short on time here this am, so will post this for now and check back later:

    I'm pro-choice and my view is that it is about women's rights...and the effects the violations to our rights would have on women and society in general. Our rights to bodily sovereignty, self-determination, preserving our health and lives, due process, and privacy are all protected under the Constitution, yet pro-life supporters are willing to see these all violated in order to provide the same exact things to the unborn...at our expense. As if the unborn are "more deserving." They seem to value the unborn more than women who's behavior they disapprove of.

    It's not possible to treat born and unborn equally under the law. (Or if it is, I'm still waiting to see that explained)

    Summary: I value the unborn but I value all born people more.

    Also, people seem to forget that if elective abortion were made illegal...then the govt is obligated to track, identify, and stop women from having them...which would require force, of law and otherwise...and what that actually entails for women's lives and society.
    I agree with most of that except if abortion becomes illegal the "doctor" that provides the abortion should pay the price, not the woman.

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