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Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

In t e r m s of conception rates the woman has the right to walk away from her responsibilities. She can have an abortion. The man has no such post conception right. That is inequality under the law.

Vasectomy is a pre-conception way of avoiding the terrible inequality of post conception law. Unlike abortion health insurance pays for it and it's reversal. And best of all you are free from the stupidity of Christian corporations hating on you and refusing to give you full insurance for measures that have to do with sex and reproduction. The law is more than equal for men. Quitchyurbitchin'. You lucked out on menses, pregnancy, birth, episiotomies, lactation and postpartum depression.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

And women don't "knowingly take a risk"? And again, the rights of the unborn child don't even get a mention.

The unborn have never had rights in the history of your country or mine.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

Many insurances only apply vasectomies to their deductible. Mine was $500 out of pocket. I got one to stop the risk of having a child that would turn 18 after my statistical life expectancy.

Vasectomy is a pre-conception way of avoiding the terrible inequality of post conception law. Unlike abortion health insurance pays for it and it's reversal. And best of all you are free from the stupidity of Christian corporations hating on you and refusing to give you full insurance for measures that have to do with sex and reproduction. The law is more than equal for men. Quitchyurbitchin'. You lucked out on menses, pregnancy, birth, episiotomies, lactation and postpartum depression.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

Then why all the hand wringing over Roe v Wade being struck down?

The unborn have never had rights in the history of your country or mine.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

And women don't "knowingly take a risk"? And again, the rights of the unborn child don't even get a mention.


The unborn have never had rights in the history of your country or mine.


Then why all the hand wringing over Roe v Wade being struck down?

Even if Roe were overturned ( which is highly unlikely ) that will not give Rights to the unborn.

The unborn have never been counted in the US census.
An expectant parent cannot claim an unborn as a tax deduction, etc.
 
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Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

What do you think the abortion issue is about: saving "babies" or power?

According to a new poll, anti-abortion advocates tend to hold views that are hostile to gender equality. The Guardian’s Jill Filipovic says the results show that the anti-abortion movement is more concerned with controlling women’s bodies than they are about the “sanctity of life.”

The poll, conducted by Supermajority and PerryUndem, surveyed both pro-life and pro-choice advocates and asked them 10 questions related to gender equity. On every question, pro-life advocates were significantly more hostile to ideas surrounding gender equity than their pro-choice counterparts.

According to Filipovic, the survey is just another example of how opposition to abortion “is tied up in a whole knot of misogyny.”

A new survey shows what really interests 'pro-lifers': controlling women | Jill Filipovic | Opinion | The Guardian

“Women, according to more than three-quarters of anti-abortion survey respondents, “are too easily offended,'” Filipovic writes. “More than 70% of ‘pro-lifers’ in the survey agree that women interpret innocent remarks or acts as being sexist – women, in other words, are a touch hysterical and perhaps not to be trusted. While 82% of pro-choice respondents said that the country would be better off with more women in political office, just 34% of abortion opponents agreed.”

“It’s not about life,” Filipovic continued. “It’s about the fact that abortion is inexorably tied to women’s freedoms and female power. If women can’t decide for themselves when and whether to have children – if having sex can mean being forced into motherhood – women also won’t be able to decide our own futures. We know that being forced to continue a pregnancy makes women more likely to remain in poverty. It makes women more likely to remain in abusive relationships. It hurts their children. It makes women more likely to die.”

In 2015, the Christian research group LifeWay conducted a survey of women who’ve had abortions and found that 70 percent of them considered themselves Christians. Additionally, over 50 percent of the surveyed women kept their abortions secret from their church community. Roughly two thirds of the women surveyed said their pastor’s teachings on forgiveness did not apply to them, and over half believed that their church is out-of-touch when it comes to helping women understand their options when facing an unplanned pregnancy.

I don't buy into the 'controlling women' theme. Personally, I'd be better off if a black woman aborted all 8 of her babies. If she had them all, she'd be on welfare, which I have to pay for. My kids have to pay for. So I'd like to "control" a black woman, watch her "suffer" with 8 kids, and then have tax money taken from my family to go to hers? It makes no sense.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

Then why all the hand wringing over Roe v Wade being struck down?

Please show where I've done that.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

I don't buy into the 'controlling women' theme. Personally, I'd be better off if a black woman aborted all 8 of her babies. If she had them all, she'd be on welfare, which I have to pay for. My kids have to pay for. So I'd like to "control" a black woman, watch her "suffer" with 8 kids, and then have tax money taken from my family to go to hers? It makes no sense.

Pro-choice necessarily excludes the racist argument in favor of abortion, so you may take your trash elsewhere. Preferably the landfill. :thumbs:
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

I don't buy into the 'controlling women' theme. Personally, I'd be better off if a black woman aborted all 8 of her babies. If she had them all, she'd be on welfare, which I have to pay for. My kids have to pay for. So I'd like to "control" a black woman, watch her "suffer" with 8 kids, and then have tax money taken from my family to go to hers? It makes no sense.

Why do you assume she'd be on welfare?
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

I don't buy into the 'controlling women' theme. Personally, I'd be better off if a black woman aborted all 8 of her babies. If she had them all, she'd be on welfare, which I have to pay for. My kids have to pay for. So I'd like to "control" a black woman, watch her "suffer" with 8 kids, and then have tax money taken from my family to go to hers? It makes no sense.

Will you stop with racist bias.

There are many Black Women who not on welfare and many white Women who are on welfare.

On average a woman on welfare has the same number of children as a woman who is not on welfare

Number of children in welfare families. 1.9

Compare that to the number of children families have who are not on welfare....

Yep it is the same 1.9
 
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Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

I don't buy into the 'controlling women' theme.

OK, what do you think the religious right's issue is with abortion? They have proven many times over that it is not about saving lives or saving money nor is it about religious dogma or morals. What's left but control?
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

Then why all the hand wringing over Roe v Wade being struck down?

Can you show me a regular prochoice poster that is wringing their hands over this?

Most of us are pretty damned confident that it will not be struck down. There just will be ongoing politicizing of the issue by Republicans to make pro-lifers believe it is possible - so they retain a voting block. Period.

The pro-lifers are being duped into overturning RvW is possible by Republicans .

If they were told the truth....pro-lifers who truly believed that abortion was murder would be forced to be pragmatic. Drastically decreasing abortion rates means improved access to good health care across the life span, it means access to contraception that has the best rates of prevention of unwanted pregnancy. It means supporting new and improved (safer/easier/more reliable) contraception. It means paying attention to social safety nets for the poor/working poor so they do not fear being unsafe or homeless due to pregnancy. It means improving educational/vocational opportunities for real jobs.

The Republicans want to dupe them into believing overturn RvW was possible, otherwise....gasp....they might turn to pragmatism.

Nobody really even touches on the reality that if RvW was overturned....abortion rates could possible INCREASE. Now women who consider abortion need a relatively close abortion clinic. If abortions became illegal....drug pushers (who can be found in junior and senior high schools across the country)would supply abortion pills. SInce abortion pills need to be used early - women might choose abortion before they really have had time to consider what options really exist - they may have personal/medical/social/financial support for pregnancy they had not even considered.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

And women don't "knowingly take a risk"? And again, the rights of the unborn child don't even get a mention.

Of course we do. And we cannot escape the consequences of a pregnancy.

There are only 4 options:

--have a kid
--have a miscarriage
--have an abortion
--die during pregnancy/childbirth.

And the woman can die or suffer severe health harm during the first 3 as well. Those are all serious consequences.

So again: women cannot escape the consequences of a pregnancy. Men can, in all but one of those scenarios.

This is why it's a joke when someone claims 'it's not equal.'

And in the US the unborn have no rights. Is there a reason you think that they should, and thus have rights superseding those of women? Because they cannot be treated equally under the law.
 
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Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

OK, what do you think the religious right's issue is with abortion? They have proven many times over that it is not about saving lives or saving money nor is it about religious dogma or morals. What's left but control?

I'm not sure what the defined reasoning is for the various pro choice or anti-abortion factions. For me personally, I find abortion in most cases to be abhorrent, since I wouldn't want to undergo the same procedure if I was given the choice retro-actively while in my fetal stage. For me, advocating for abortion is the same as advocating for suicide: only in extreme cases.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

I don't buy into the 'controlling women' theme. Personally, I'd be better off if a black woman aborted all 8 of her babies. If she had them all, she'd be on welfare, which I have to pay for. My kids have to pay for. So I'd like to "control" a black woman, watch her "suffer" with 8 kids, and then have tax money taken from my family to go to hers? It makes no sense.

@_@ Would you be better off if a white woman aborted all her babies?

Wow, Sheepshead or whoever he is wrote almost the exact same thing. Abortion is murder, but only if they're white.

Jeebus, Mary, and Joseph.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

I'm not sure what the defined reasoning is for the various pro choice or anti-abortion factions. For me personally, I find abortion in most cases to be abhorrent, since I wouldn't want to undergo the same procedure if I was given the choice retro-actively while in my fetal stage. For me, advocating for abortion is the same as advocating for suicide: only in extreme cases.

Or for black women.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

OK, what do you think the religious right's issue is with abortion? They have proven many times over that it is not about saving lives or saving money nor is it about religious dogma or morals. What's left but control?

giphy.gif
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

No, because not every case creates an embryo, have you not been paying attention?

More and more insurance companies are covering the costs (and those costs as a whole are going down) for a set number of harvest/implantation/storage attempts and certain states, I do believe Texas of all places, require carriers to cover them in their plan.

Any out of pocket expense as it regards the storing of the unfertilized eggs might have to be picked up by the patient, but for those patients who feel it important, they certainly will.

Do your homework and speak with knowledge. Damn...

So your answer really is that you are making **** up in order to cover up your contradiction. In vitro involves the discarding of viable embryos. A fact you have attempted to dance around.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

So your answer really is that you are making **** up in order to cover up your contradiction. In vitro involves the discarding of viable embryos. A fact you have attempted to dance around.

So what you're saying is you don't have a ****ing clue about IVF, but want to take "what you've heard" as the gospel to justify your support in murdering the unborn.

Got it! :thumbs:
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

So what you're saying is you don't have a ****ing clue about IVF, but want to take "what you've heard" as the gospel to justify your support in murdering the unborn.

Got it! :thumbs:

No, i am saying that you are desperate to ignore the fact that iv involves the discarding of live embryos to succeed. It creates a contradiction to your poor choice of considering abortion murder. So dancing around the answer by pretending that it does not happen under special conditions is the only way you can deal with it.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

No, i am saying that you are desperate to ignore the fact that iv involves the discarding of live embryos to succeed. It creates a contradiction to your poor choice of considering abortion murder. So dancing around the answer by pretending that it does not happen under special conditions is the only way you can deal with it.

No, you are speaking without knowing what the **** it is you're talking about. Some IVF does harvest, fertilize, store and then dispose of unused embryos and I've been clear in stating my opposition to it.

Other methods allow you to harvest eggs, fertilize the one's you wish to implant and discard the other non fertilized eggs or keep them stored for future attempts, where each attempt would be a separate fertilization of only the eggs being implanted. Can this be more costly? Perhaps. But is it worth it to those who believe life begins at conception? Most certainly.

You the patient get to decide.

There is no contradiction because my position is consistent.

If you undergo IVF thenn you will do so in the manner I described, that being harvesting eggs and only fertilizing those that will be implanted. This is acceptable because it does not kill anything.

I understand your thirst for the blood of the unborn has blurred your vision and clouded your judgement, but please, I've brought his down to a child's level, perhaps a child you'd have seen killed in the womb, but it is really a simple thing to be understood.

Do your homework next time and you won't look the fool.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

noun: sexism
prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, on the basis of sex.

Re-stating the information contained in a set of statistics is not any kind of ism.

She did not restate anything ... she made judgments...

I doubt many men think of it in that much depth...and it doesnt make them look very bright.

Men don't think at depth and as such men are not bright...
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

I'm glad you made this comment, .

Me too... it makes the sexism very easy to point out.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

You write that all the time, yet cannot point out my "lies." I only take your words and argue them. Then...you're supposed to argue them back. Or concede. That's what people do on discussion forums.

Not complain that I'm bullying you. This is what you do: you pretend to be a victim and attack me instead of discussing.

In previous discussions I have outlined, listed, point by point, how ridiculous your 'equality' argument is.

Feel free to point out my lies. (I dont care if you ignore my posts. I dont mind posting for others to consider.)

I have pointed out your lies many times... it comes when you misrepresent the argument. That is not whining or being a victim... that is just telling you that you either are not very educated and consequently do not comprehend what you are reading or that you are purposely lying in order to try and be clever... :shrug:

Hell, I don't care. At this point, because you have nothing else, I merely point it out.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

She did not restate anything ... she made judgments...

Men don't think at depth and as such men are not bright...

I doubt many men think of it in that much depth...and it doesnt make them look very bright.
LOLOL And you accuse me of lying? The article about a subset of men, conservative men. Then I qualified it further.

And then I explained why, as they are acting against their own best interests (and may not even realize it :doh )

Nice try tho.
 
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