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Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

Yeah...sorry, see, when it comes to IVF, you're in the driver seat...:shrug: Doctor's don't do diddly unless you green light it.

When it comes to ANYTHING, doctors need consent. Assuming that you give it, they need to be able to give you the most effective treatment. Not one that is the most politically appealing.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

When it comes to ANYTHING, doctors need consent. Assuming that you give it, they need to be able to give you the most effective treatment. Not one that is the most politically appealing.

The hell you say....:shock:

They don't need to do a god damn thing, it's an elective procedure.

As such, they don't even need to take you on as a patient.

Should they, then they need to follow your wishes to the letter, it is a matter of ethics not politics.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

The hell you say....:shock:

They don't need to do a god damn thing, it's an elective procedure.

As such, they don't even need to take you on as a patient.

Should they, then they need to follow your wishes to the letter, it is a matter of ethics not politics.

Should doctors use less effective methods for elective procedures simply because they are elective?
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

Should doctors use less effective methods for elective procedures simply because they are elective?

Doctors should use whatever methods the patient allows them to.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

Doctors should use whatever methods the patient allows them to.

Including abortion and IVF?
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

Including abortion and IVF?

Murder and the murdering kind? Not this patient.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

One wrong consequence of abortion is that a man has no protection against unknowingly staying married to a murderer. We need spouse notification laws on abortion. It should be treated as an at-fault divorce with alimony barred.

Men and women have equal rights and opportunity to decide on whether or not to knowingly risk pregnancy.

100% equal: if there is a pregnancy, both must face consequences of that pregnancy.

Wait...that's not true. The woman MUST, but if she has an abortion, then the man does not have to face consequences.

So...then it's not equal...it favors men.

As for the consequences, well the ones that are biological cant be made equal by laws.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

Nice attempt at deflection. Your post was sexist. Deal with it.

How can it be sexist? The statistics show that conservative men are unlikely to support equality for women, think women are wrong about sexual harassment and should not complain about it. don't support legalized abortion, think women should be paid less than men etc. The poster noted the fact that statistics were not flattering to men. They aren't.

You seem very sensitive to criticism of men. Men make, with impunity, many crude and coarse judgements about women. But women judging men is not allowed? How does that work?
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

One wrong consequence of abortion is that a man has no protection against unknowingly staying married to a murderer. We need spouse notification laws on abortion. It should be treated as an at-fault divorce with alimony barred.

:lamo :lamo

Seems like a sad sad state of a marriage that man got himself into, eh? Wonder what his criteria were for marrying her.

Seems pretty simple to me, after dating gets serious:

Him: would you ever get an abortion?

Her: yes/no

Him: makes informed decision on continuing relationship

:roll:
 
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Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

:lamo :lamo

Seems like a sad sad state of a marriage that man got himself into, eh? Wonder what his criteria were for marrying her.



You look like an angel
Walk like an angel
Talk like an angel
But I got wise
You're the devil in disguise
Oh yes you are
The devil in disguise
You fooled me with your kisses
You cheated and you schemed
Heaven knows how you lied to me
You're not the way you seemed
You look like an angel
Walk like an angel
Talk like an angel
But I got wise
You're the devil in disguise
Oh yes you are
The devil in disguise
I thought that I was in heaven
But I was sure surprised
Heaven help me, I didn't see
The devil in your eyes
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

video that I wont click on.

Awww you missed the dialog in mine. Please try again.

But if you dont get to know her well enough before marriage...that's on you.

Same goes for her.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

Gotta be the best Elvis song of all time.

Awww you missed the dialog in mine. Please try again.

But if you dont get to know her well enough before marriage...that's on you.

Same goes for her.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

No she has a right to choose what she will do about that pregnancy. This does not excuse the man from his responsibility in playing a part in getting her pregnant. The mans post conception right is to ensure he plays his part in not getting her pregnant through the various means of contraception.

So you admit that you Advocate unequal rights for men. Got it
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

How can it be sexist? The statistics show that conservative men are unlikely to support equality for women, think women are wrong about sexual harassment and should not complain about it. don't support legalized abortion, think women should be paid less than men etc. The poster noted the fact that statistics were not flattering to men. They aren't.

You seem very sensitive to criticism of men. Men make, with impunity, many crude and coarse judgements about women. But women judging men is not allowed? How does that work?

Look up the definition of sexism and you will understand why
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

So you admit that you Advocate unequal rights for men. Got it

No, we just dont consider valid your attempts to commandeer more privileges for men in the name of 'false' equality for something that is as equal as it can be already. (Esp. since men arent risking their lives) That you dont like the timing and consequences that differ, based on biology, for each sex is too bad.

Your idea of equality is a 'get out of jail free' card for men that knowingly take a risk. It diminishes the entire concept of equality.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

Look up the definition of sexism and you will understand why

So then he and Iguanaman are sexist too? How come you only called me on it? ;)
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

So then he and Iguanaman are sexist too? How come you only called me on it? ;)

You have lied about what I have said and misrepresented what I have said so many times that there is nothing more to say other than debating u is senseless because you post such supremely dishonest stuff and lack any common decency about post conception equal rights is what the entire debate is about and what you entirely ignored. Probably because can't understand the concept.. I assume there's some underlying anger towards men that shapes your opinion or that you're simply uneducated. Oh good. I assume you will post some more idiotic tripe and that is why I ignore most of your posts.
 
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Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

Look up the definition of sexism and you will understand why

noun: sexism
prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, on the basis of sex.

Re-stating the information contained in a set of statistics is not any kind of ism.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

What do you think the abortion issue is about: saving "babies" or power?

According to a new poll, anti-abortion advocates tend to hold views that are hostile to gender equality. The Guardian’s Jill Filipovic says the results show that the anti-abortion movement is more concerned with controlling women’s bodies than they are about the “sanctity of life.”

The poll, conducted by Supermajority and PerryUndem, surveyed both pro-life and pro-choice advocates and asked them 10 questions related to gender equity. On every question, pro-life advocates were significantly more hostile to ideas surrounding gender equity than their pro-choice counterparts.

According to Filipovic, the survey is just another example of how opposition to abortion “is tied up in a whole knot of misogyny.”

A new survey shows what really interests 'pro-lifers': controlling women | Jill Filipovic | Opinion | The Guardian

“Women, according to more than three-quarters of anti-abortion survey respondents, “are too easily offended,'” Filipovic writes. “More than 70% of ‘pro-lifers’ in the survey agree that women interpret innocent remarks or acts as being sexist – women, in other words, are a touch hysterical and perhaps not to be trusted. While 82% of pro-choice respondents said that the country would be better off with more women in political office, just 34% of abortion opponents agreed.”

“It’s not about life,” Filipovic continued. “It’s about the fact that abortion is inexorably tied to women’s freedoms and female power. If women can’t decide for themselves when and whether to have children – if having sex can mean being forced into motherhood – women also won’t be able to decide our own futures. We know that being forced to continue a pregnancy makes women more likely to remain in poverty. It makes women more likely to remain in abusive relationships. It hurts their children. It makes women more likely to die.”

In 2015, the Christian research group LifeWay conducted a survey of women who’ve had abortions and found that 70 percent of them considered themselves Christians. Additionally, over 50 percent of the surveyed women kept their abortions secret from their church community. Roughly two thirds of the women surveyed said their pastor’s teachings on forgiveness did not apply to them, and over half believed that their church is out-of-touch when it comes to helping women understand their options when facing an unplanned pregnancy.

A very obvious finding, yet it is worth repeating. The dead giveaway that anti-abortionism is all about control comes down to the anti-choice movement's origin:

But evangelicals didn’t seem to think much about abortion until an earlier pet issue, racial segregation, began to fall out of favor. Around the same time, women’s social roles were rapidly changing. The birth control pill brought with it an avalanche of opportunities and freedoms, and women, finally fully able to have sex for fun and prevent pregnancy, took full advantage. The ability to delay a pregnancy – and later, the ability to legally end one – meant that women didn’t have to choose between romance and ambition (and it meant women could be choosier about romance, making a more considered decision about who and whether to marry).

Evangelicals hardly cared about abortion prior to Civil Rights, when it was blacks whom they could be more open about discriminating against. Civil Rights took away that weapon from evangelicals, but instead of learning and catching up to the times, they simply shifted to a new target: Women who were not conforming to evangelicals' narrow view of how they felt women should behave sexually. And thus the anti-choice movement was born and continues to this day.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

I see truth there, but nothing that is very complimentary to men. (Not that that is a requirement to posting.)

I doubt many men think of it in that much depth...and it doesnt make them look very bright.

OTOH, what makes them look even 'less bright' is to place their negative, personal, judgmental venting about women ahead of their own best interests...since they are mostly the ones on the hook for 18 years of child support or fatherhood when women are not allowed elective abortions.

I'm glad you made this comment, because the whiny responses you received to it confirm the OP. We men have been remarkably bad at standing up for women's bodily autonomy.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

You have lied about what I have said and misrepresented what I have said so many times that there is nothing more to say other than debating u is senseless because you post such supremely dishonest stuff and lack any common decency about post conception equal rights is what the entire debate is about and what you entirely ignored. Probably because can't understand the concept.. I assume there's some underlying anger towards men that shapes your opinion or that you're simply uneducated. Oh good. I assume you will post some more idiotic tripe and that is why I ignore most of your posts.

You write that all the time, yet cannot point out my "lies." I only take your words and argue them. Then...you're supposed to argue them back. Or concede. That's what people do on discussion forums.

Not complain that I'm bullying you. This is what you do: you pretend to be a victim and attack me instead of discussing.

In previous discussions I have outlined, listed, point by point, how ridiculous your 'equality' argument is.

Feel free to point out my lies. (I dont care if you ignore my posts. I dont mind posting for others to consider.)
 
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Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

Well, that would depend the type, as there are a plethora of methods. From harvesting, fertilizing, and freezing, inserting a half dozen and keep only the most viable and discard the rest which would be a no no...to harvesting eggs, fertilizing the one or two eggs and only those one or two that are to be implanted, which would be acceptable. There are also many methods that can take place that fall under the IVF banner which aren't necessarily a case where they have to harvest and fertilize or worse harvest, fertilize, and then incubate before implantation.

So, obviously, it is a case by case basis

In every case though viable embryos are discarded. The method is to expensive to put all your eggs in one basket when trying to produce viability.

So this time without you trying to dance around the answer. Do explain how in vitro is murder.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

And women don't "knowingly take a risk"? And again, the rights of the unborn child don't even get a mention.

No, we just dont consider valid your attempts to commandeer more privileges for men in the name of 'false' equality for something that is as equal as it can be already. (Esp. since men arent risking their lives) That you dont like the timing and consequences that differ, based on biology, for each sex is too bad.

Your idea of equality is a 'get out of jail free' card for men that knowingly take a risk. It diminishes the entire concept of equality.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

So you admit that you Advocate unequal rights for men. Got it

Not at all. I only point out that you are doing nothing more than wishing you had the right to act without having any concern for the consequences of your actions.
 
Re: Misogyny not saving "babies" is the force behind the anti-abortion movement says a new poll

In every case though viable embryos are discarded. The method is to expensive to put all your eggs in one basket when trying to produce viability.

So this time without you trying to dance around the answer. Do explain how in vitro is murder.

No, because not every case creates an embryo, have you not been paying attention?

More and more insurance companies are covering the costs (and those costs as a whole are going down) for a set number of harvest/implantation/storage attempts and certain states, I do believe Texas of all places, require carriers to cover them in their plan.

Any out of pocket expense as it regards the storing of the unfertilized eggs might have to be picked up by the patient, but for those patients who feel it important, they certainly will.

Do your homework and speak with knowledge. Damn...
 
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