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Setting the record straight on late term abortion

Scorps2000 said:
Again, taking away a potential life is my concern, it shouldn’t be allowed.
Any reasonable person would agree with an exception for "incest, rape, or health of the mother"
Where do you draw the line for "no chance"?
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When a woman says her emotional and financial situation is too unstable to raise a child in, perhaps you should listen to her. Why do you think you or any other unrelated male have any knowledge at all about her situation or have any right to tell that woman she has to carry her pregnancy to term and produce a child.

What do you think the chances are, of that unwanted and unplanned child growing up in poverty, of becoming a mentally and emotionally stable adult. The statistics are not good. That child has a significantly greater chance of remaining in poverty, getting into legal trouble, ending up in jail, being a dysfunctional and violent adult. That's a pretty grim picture of the potential life you want to force the woman into giving birth to.

If you were actually concerned about potential lives you wouldn't be trying force women to to bring children into situations they know are not good for the child. What are your real reasons?
 
weaver2 said:
When a woman says her emotional and financial situation is too unstable to raise a child in, perhaps you should listen to her. Why do you think you or any other unrelated male have any knowledge at all about her situation or have any right to tell that woman she has to carry her pregnancy to term and produce a child.

What do you think the chances are, of that unwanted and unplanned child growing up in poverty, of becoming a mentally and emotionally stable adult. The statistics are not good. That child has a significantly greater chance of remaining in poverty, getting into legal trouble, ending up in jail, being a dysfunctional and violent adult. That's a pretty grim picture of the potential life you want to force the woman into giving birth to.

If you were actually concerned about potential lives you wouldn't be trying force women to to bring children into situations they know are not good for the child. What are your real reasons?
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Also, the woman's hardships can happen well before a child is born. Oft times someone flippantly states "well she can just adopt out, problem solved". That is beyond naïve.

Pregnancy may be natural but even in the best of circumstances there are many risks involved. A woman may choose not to continue pregnancy if her personal resources are lacking (poor insurance, housing insecurity, job insecurity. poor social resources, children she is struggling to care for at home)
 
Scorps2000 said:
Again, taking away a potential life is my concern, it shouldn’t be allowed.
Any reasonable person would agree with an exception for "incest, rape, or health of the mother"
Where do you draw the line for "no chance"?
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Many draw the line when a fetus has catastrophic defects.

Only 1.3 of abortions in the U.S. occur past 21 weeks and 80 percent are because of catastrophic fetal defects. ( not deformities)

From Romper:

Only 1.3 percent of abortions happen at, or after, 21 weeks, she said, and 80 percent of those are the results of catastrophic defects with the fetus.
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Which States Offer Late-Term Abortions? They Are Very Difficult To Access







Catastrophic means if it survives birth it will most likely die before its first birthday as a result of its defects.

From the following:


Birth defects, also known as congenital anomalies, occur in approximately 3 percent of all live births1 and are the second leading cause of infant mortality behind prematurity, accounting for 20.9 percent of all infant deaths in the United States in 2011
Birth Defects, Child Health USA 2014
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Birth Defects, Child Health USA 2014
 
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forthecause said:
There’s a big difference between domestic infant adoption and foster care. Pregnant women wanting to put their baby up for adoption can use domestic infant adoption, which lets her set the child up with a family prior to birth with plenty of assistance. You will not fail to find an adoptive family this way. Foster care is essentially for children who have been taken from their parents for legal reasons. These children are a little older and have a lot of difficulty getting adopted. About half get reunified with their parents, however, which is the ultimate goal of foster care. So bottom line: if you’re pregnant and you want to put your baby up for adoption, you won’t have a problem and can’t use the foster care system as an excuse for killing him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Unless the baby happens to be black. But basically you've proven my point after the child is born they really don't care about the child. We'll take the baby, but a 5 yo, nope not our problem.
 
"Setting the record straight" - you mean giving meaningless information to try to push a political narrative. Even being the most generous I possibly could (giving you 9999 for "several thousand", and not counting women under 18 who could easily get pregnant), you're looking at something like 1/5000 pregnancies ending in a late-term abortion. That's about the same percentage as women who die during childbirth, and 50 times less likely than a pregnancy ending in still birth.

Abortion is a necessary right for women, a right that is protected in the United States (and other developed nations), and something that only serves to increase the quality of life of the average person in our country. We already have far too many people in poverty, far too many people growing up in broken homes, far too many people in prison, etc....

It's always hilarious to me that the anti-choice crowd literally doesn't care at all about making life better for people in this country, only about meaningless bull**** that makes you feel morally superior.
 
I realize the OP wont be returning, but here's an example of why not every woman knows in time to have an early term abortion:

Mom thought she had kidney stones, then gave birth to surprise triplets - CNN Video

While these incidents defy (my) belief, they are common enough that we hear of several a year. Mostly single births. And these are just the ones that make the major news outlets.

And yet, most likely the pro-life would still blame the woman for not knowing. So many women that choose abortion do so for financial reasons...meaning little or no health insurance...so much less likely to see a Dr.

Note: Of course I dont recommend that these women abort their healthy, viable fetuses if they do find out in time, at that point they might as well give birth and make some $$$ in a private adoption.
 
weaver2 said:
Call it that if you want or it makes you feel more comfortable , but, remember this; abortion is legal; the Supreme Court declared that women did have a right right to privacy; and doctors could provide abortions without being criminalized. Also remember that the anti-abortion movement was started and is run by male religious leaders who are trying to make the government write laws institutionalizing their religious beliefs about women, their position and their obligation.
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You misunderstand... I am in favor of abortion. In fact, I am in favor of more abortion. There are too many unfit parents out there having kids.
 
Scorps2000 said:
R v W was a mistake. No one should have the right to take away a potential life.
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It is impossible to take away anything from a potential life because a potential life is not a life and therefore has nothing, much less right.
 
vegas giants said:
Call it gods little miracle.....who cares


Abortion is legal
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Although it shouldn't be without an agreement on what is defined as what... with all in agreement.
 
On the face of it abortion sounds barbaric. But many animals kill their offspring. Humans are just smart apes, so why should they be any different. And why should it matter what stage of pregnancy? Killing is killing. And besides, it has helped reduce the crime rate. We just don't breed criminals like we used to. Got to get rid of those little thugs somehow. Abortion solves that problem early. No need to wait 'til they've grown up and gone on a criminal rampage and then abort them with a lethal injection. Abortion before birth is a cost effective final solution. Saves us all some time and trouble.
 
Waddy said:
On the face of it abortion sounds barbaric. But many animals kill their offspring. Humans are just smart apes, so why should they be any different. And why should it matter what stage of pregnancy? Killing is killing. And besides, it has helped reduce the crime rate. We just don't breed criminals like we used to. Got to get rid of those little thugs somehow. Abortion solves that problem early. No need to wait 'til they've grown up and gone on a criminal rampage and then abort them with a lethal injection. Abortion before birth is a cost effective final solution. Saves us all some time and trouble.
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Final solution? Pretty late in the thread to be Goodwining?

Can't it just be about reality? A woman that is not physically, emotionally, financially, socially ready to be safely pregnant? Pregnancy carries great risks even for healthy and well resourced women - women who are poorly resourced it is even riskier.

Not your body, not your choice.

I was expected to have an uneventful pregnancy. By the time my son was delivered (required surgery and anesthesia!) I had 2 major life threatening complications - 25 years later I still have some medical issues related to the pregnancy. I lost 6 months of work and went heavily in debt. I am alive with functioning kidneys because I was able to go to an experienced Obstetrician with the time to give me individual attention each and every time - a county clinic would have likely overlooked my subtle signs - especially since I felt great. I had the financial resources to make sure that I could take a day off work to go to each and every appointment and screening.

Most women who choose abortion are not well resources. They are without insurance or with crappy access (Medicaid and county clinics)..they are dependent on each and every shift they can manage to pay the rent and live in as safe of a place as possible.

Your "final solution" reference is disgusting.

Well, at least you are not accusing me of killing my baby anymore. You accused me of that, despite the fact that I risked my life to maintain my pregnancy.

It is because of those severe complications that I am emboldened in my pro-choice stance. The problems with pregnancy can crop up quickly. And yes, problems related to pregnancy can appear during childbirth and after delivery has occurred.

Not your body, not your choice.

I would love to see better birth control option being offered. Long term birth control methods can be about twice the cost of an early abortion. Other forms of birth control can be prone to human error (missing one pill can render the month ineffective...condoms break...etc)
 
year2late said:
Final solution? Pretty late in the thread to be Goodwining?

Can't it just be about reality? A woman that is not physically, emotionally, financially, socially ready to be safely pregnant? Pregnancy carries great risks even for healthy and well resourced women - women who are poorly resourced it is even riskier.

Not your body, not your choice.

I was expected to have an uneventful pregnancy. By the time my son was delivered (required surgery and anesthesia!) I had 2 major life threatening complications - 25 years later I still have some medical issues related to the pregnancy. I lost 6 months of work and went heavily in debt. I am alive with functioning kidneys because I was able to go to an experienced Obstetrician with the time to give me individual attention each and every time - a county clinic would have likely overlooked my subtle signs - especially since I felt great. I had the financial resources to make sure that I could take a day off work to go to each and every appointment and screening.

Most women who choose abortion are not well resources. They are without insurance or with crappy access (Medicaid and county clinics)..they are dependent on each and every shift they can manage to pay the rent and live in as safe of a place as possible.

Your "final solution" reference is disgusting.

Well, at least you are not accusing me of killing my baby anymore. You accused me of that, despite the fact that I risked my life to maintain my pregnancy.

It is because of those severe complications that I am emboldened in my pro-choice stance. The problems with pregnancy can crop up quickly. And yes, problems related to pregnancy can appear during childbirth and after delivery has occurred.

Not your body, not your choice.

I would love to see better birth control option being offered. Long term birth control methods can be about twice the cost of an early abortion. Other forms of birth control can be prone to human error (missing one pill can render the month ineffective...condoms break...etc)
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But when reduced to its basics, his post points out accurately...there are no negative effects of abortion on society.
 
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year2late said:
Final solution? Pretty late in the thread to be Goodwining?

Can't it just be about reality? A woman that is not physically, emotionally, financially, socially ready to be safely pregnant? Pregnancy carries great risks even for healthy and well resourced women - women who are poorly resourced it is even riskier.

Not your body, not your choice.

I was expected to have an uneventful pregnancy. By the time my son was delivered (required surgery and anesthesia!) I had 2 major life threatening complications - 25 years later I still have some medical issues related to the pregnancy. I lost 6 months of work and went heavily in debt. I am alive with functioning kidneys because I was able to go to an experienced Obstetrician with the time to give me individual attention each and every time - a county clinic would have likely overlooked my subtle signs - especially since I felt great. I had the financial resources to make sure that I could take a day off work to go to each and every appointment and screening.

Most women who choose abortion are not well resources. They are without insurance or with crappy access (Medicaid and county clinics)..they are dependent on each and every shift they can manage to pay the rent and live in as safe of a place as possible.

Your "final solution" reference is disgusting.

Well, at least you are not accusing me of killing my baby anymore. You accused me of that, despite the fact that I risked my life to maintain my pregnancy.

It is because of those severe complications that I am emboldened in my pro-choice stance. The problems with pregnancy can crop up quickly. And yes, problems related to pregnancy can appear during childbirth and after delivery has occurred.

Not your body, not your choice.

I would love to see better birth control option being offered. Long term birth control methods can be about twice the cost of an early abortion. Other forms of birth control can be prone to human error (missing one pill can render the month ineffective...condoms break...etc)
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I'm sympathetic to your health issues. But you go on to whine about women not having enough resources being a good reason to get rid of the problem. Good enough. Killing is an option. Go for it. Better to kill your offspring now than have them grow up to be a serial killer or career criminal, which then would necessitate the legal system putting them down. So I'm clearly on your side. I like lower crime rates. And I'm willing to sacrifice other people's offspring to achieve that goal.
 
Waddy said:
I'm sympathetic to your health issues. But you go on to whine about women not having enough resources being a good reason to get rid of the problem. Good enough. Killing is an option. Go for it. Better to kill your offspring now than have them grow up to be a serial killer or career criminal, which then would necessitate the legal system putting them down. So I'm clearly on your side. I like lower crime rates. And I'm willing to sacrifice other people's offspring to achieve that goal.
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That is your view.
 
Waddy said:
I'm sympathetic to your health issues. But you go on to whine about women not having enough resources being a good reason to get rid of the problem. Good enough. Killing is an option. Go for it. Better to kill your offspring now than have them grow up to be a serial killer or career criminal, which then would necessitate the legal system putting them down. So I'm clearly on your side. I like lower crime rates. And I'm willing to sacrifice other people's offspring to achieve that goal.
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Well, since the law is 'choice,' you really dont have that control either.

But I'm glad that whatever view you hold, you see the validity of a woman's right to choose.
 
Lursa said:
Well, since the law is 'choice,' you really dont have that control either.

But I'm glad that whatever view you hold, you see the validity of a woman's right to choose.
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I don't need control. You are doing a fine job of it without my intervention. And now that I think about it, we should probably force poor women to have abortions. For all the reasons you list. It would shrink the welfare rolls, make schools safer, and be better in general for society. So you've all got the right idea. Hey, while we're at it, let's euthanize all those useless old people rotting away in nursing homes, at least the ones there on government money. You do claim it's legitimate to do away with people for economic reasons. Hmmmm, now about that prison overcrowding problem..... I see a final solution...
 
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