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Setting the record straight on late term abortion

forthecause

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The study linked below seems to be widely regarded as the best information on the topic of late term abortion. In it you’ll find some inconvenient truths for the pro-abortion camp. Among those are: 1) there are (at least) several thousand late term abortions every year in the US conducted for flippant reasons, i.e. not having to do with fetal anomalies or the life of the mother being at risk; 2) at least a few thousand late term abortions are performed each year in the US simply because the mother is already a single mother and doesn’t want to be raising another child on her own. (The reasons for the other half of the unnecessary late term abortions aren’t any better); and 3) there is no shortage of abortion clinics offering late term abortions. (Women seeking a late term abortion contacted 2.2 clinics on average before finding one that would perform their procedure as opposed to 1.7 clinics for women seeking first trimester abortions).

—-https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1363/4521013—-


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The study linked below seems to be widely regarded as the best information on the topic of late term abortion. In it you’ll find some inconvenient truths for the pro-abortion camp. Among those are: 1) there are (at least) several thousand late term abortions every year in the US conducted for flippant reasons, i.e. not having to do with fetal anomalies or the life of the mother being at risk; 2) at least a few thousand late term abortions are performed each year in the US simply because the mother is already a single mother and doesn’t want to be raising another child on her own. (The reasons for the other half of the unnecessary late term abortions aren’t any better); and 3) there is no shortage of abortion clinics offering late term abortions. (Women seeking a late term abortion contacted 2.2 clinics on average before finding one that would perform their procedure as opposed to 1.7 clinics for women seeking first trimester abortions).

—-https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1363/4521013—-


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Can you quote actual portions of the text that back up your conclusions?

Also, some more current articles would be nice. Some of the sourced information is coming from the 1990's and 2000's.

But at least show how you got to got to your conclusion if you actually want to discuss.
 
Can you quote actual portions of the text that back up your conclusions?

Also, some more current articles would be nice. Some of the sourced information is coming from the 1990's and 2000's.

But at least show how you got to got to your conclusion if you actually want to discuss.

Its not an issue that has a lot of sources. This is the best there is. And it’s not that long of an article. You could just read it. But sure, I’ll give you some more highlights...there are about 15000 late term abortions. Most of those are not for reasons relating to fetal anomalies or saving the mother’s life. That means at least several thousand are for other reasons. Out of that group, about half (i think it was 49%) listed already being a single mother as the reason for the abortion. That equates to at least a few thousand therefore. The rest of the reasons you can read in the article, but a couple examples are being addicted to drugs and having a bad relationship with the father. Number three needs no explanation. I gave you the numbers straight from the study.

It’s also worth mentioning that this study was done by a liberal trying to push back against legislation seeking to ban late term abortion, so there’s no pro life bias here to be concerned about.


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Following. Thank you.
 
Its not an issue that has a lot of sources. This is the best there is. And it’s not that long of an article. You could just read it. But sure, I’ll give you some more highlights...there are about 15000 late term abortions. Most of those are not for reasons relating to fetal anomalies or saving the mother’s life. That means at least several thousand are for other reasons. Out of that group, about half (i think it was 49%) listed already being a single mother as the reason for the abortion. That equates to at least a few thousand therefore. The rest of the reasons you can read in the article, but a couple examples are being addicted to drugs and having a bad relationship with the father. Number three needs no explanation. I gave you the numbers straight from the study.

It’s also worth mentioning that this study was done by a liberal trying to push back against legislation seeking to ban late term abortion, so there’s no pro life bias here to be concerned about.


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Well if you are going to make definitive statements saying that women are having late term abortions based on "flippant" reasons, you need to be backed up with recent sources and facts.

Also, you need to define late term abortions. Are you saying post viability? Or what actual week..there are frequently different reasons for different stages of pregnancy. Example...ultrasound that are frequently done around 20 weeks can show catastrophic fetal abnormalities. Those push into the viability stage because between ultrasound and discussion with OBGYN and subspecialists....this can take time.

I think you have a lot more work to do to define flippant and show where you are getting your numbers from and how recent the studies are.

I will be interested to see what you find if you decide to look.
 
Conclusion of the study: Bans on abortion after 20 weeks will disproportionately affect young women and women with limited financial resources.

Here is a much more recent article by the same doctor who authored that study:

When women are denied an abortion, their children fare worse than peers

Yeah it’s a study done by a liberal trying to push back against legislation seeking to ban late term abortion. That doesn’t change the facts uncovered within it that I highlighted. Neither the conclusion you quoted nor the thesis of the article you linked justify murdering children.


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Well if you are going to make definitive statements saying that women are having late term abortions based on "flippant" reasons, you need to be backed up with recent sources and facts.

Also, you need to define late term abortions. Are you saying post viability? Or what actual week..there are frequently different reasons for different stages of pregnancy. Example...ultrasound that are frequently done around 20 weeks can show catastrophic fetal abnormalities. Those push into the viability stage because between ultrasound and discussion with OBGYN and subspecialists....this can take time.

I think you have a lot more work to do to define flippant and show where you are getting your numbers from and how recent the studies are.

I will be interested to see what you find if you decide to look.

This study is the one that is quoted by the left to this day as the best source on the topic. And the right points to it as well even though it’s meant to be a leftist hit piece against Republican late term abortion ban legislation. If you’re aware of a better study out there that counters this one be my guest to bring it up, but the consensus seems to me to be that this is the gold standard for late term abortion data to date. For the rest of your concerns you raised, I’ll ask you to just read the study rather than continue asking me to dig things out of it for you. Read it. Find something better if you can. Then ask whatever you want.


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The study linked below seems to be widely regarded as the best information on the topic of late term abortion. In it you’ll find some inconvenient truths for the pro-abortion camp. Among those are: 1) there are (at least) several thousand late term abortions every year in the US conducted for flippant reasons, i.e. not having to do with fetal anomalies or the life of the mother being at risk; 2) at least a few thousand late term abortions are performed each year in the US simply because the mother is already a single mother and doesn’t want to be raising another child on her own. (The reasons for the other half of the unnecessary late term abortions aren’t any better); and 3) there is no shortage of abortion clinics offering late term abortions. (Women seeking a late term abortion contacted 2.2 clinics on average before finding one that would perform their procedure as opposed to 1.7 clinics for women seeking first trimester abortions).

—-https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1363/4521013—-


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Your link says 1% or less women have an abortion at 21 weeks or later... and it says that the majority of women that do abort past 21 weeks did not know that they were pregnant until much later than other women due to various legitimate reasons.
 
Your link says 1% or less women have an abortion at 21 weeks or later... and it says that the majority of women that do abort past 21 weeks did not know that they were pregnant until much later than other women due to various legitimate reasons.

And...?


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And...?


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And what? The point is that it is very few that abort during late term and that they are not doing it for "flippant" reasons...
 
And what? The point is that it is very few that abort during late term and that they are not doing it for "flippant" reasons...

Several thousand children being killed per year is “very few” to you? That’s pretty cold, don’t you think?
And finding out they were pregnant later than average isn’t the reason they get the abortion. Once you find out you’re pregnant you decide whether or not you’re going to get an abortion. “I’m going to kill it because I just found out about it” isn’t what they say. They say “I just found out I’m pregnant. Now I better kill it because I’m busy trying not to kill the baby I’m already raising”.


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This study is the one that is quoted by the left to this day as the best source on the topic. And the right points to it as well even though it’s meant to be a leftist hit piece against Republican late term abortion ban legislation. If you’re aware of a better study out there that counters this one be my guest to bring it up, but the consensus seems to me to be that this is the gold standard for late term abortion data to date. For the rest of your concerns you raised, I’ll ask you to just read the study rather than continue asking me to dig things out of it for you. Read it. Find something better if you can. Then ask whatever you want.


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I am just asking you to quote your article to back up the assertions you have made. Why would I do your work for you. Your article clearly does not back up your claims.
 
I am just asking you to quote your article to back up the assertions you have made. Why would I do your work for you. Your article clearly does not back up your claims.

Lol ok show me how the article doesn’t back up my points.


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The study linked below seems to be widely regarded as the best information on the topic of late term abortion. In it you’ll find some inconvenient truths for the pro-abortion camp. Among those are: 1) there are (at least) several thousand late term abortions every year in the US conducted for flippant reasons, i.e. not having to do with fetal anomalies or the life of the mother being at risk; 2) at least a few thousand late term abortions are performed each year in the US simply because the mother is already a single mother and doesn’t want to be raising another child on her own. (The reasons for the other half of the unnecessary late term abortions aren’t any better); and 3) there is no shortage of abortion clinics offering late term abortions. (Women seeking a late term abortion contacted 2.2 clinics on average before finding one that would perform their procedure as opposed to 1.7 clinics for women seeking first trimester abortions).

—-https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1363/4521013—-


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Lol ok show me how the article doesn’t back up my points.


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YOur article does not back up your original post.

When you post and article you need to be able to pull up facts that support your claims. You have done none of this.

It is not my job to back yo your assertions that you make.
 
Why should a Woman wanting to have an abortion be required to give any reason at all? All that matters is that she has decided she does not wish to bring forth a child into the world.
 
The study linked below seems to be widely regarded as the best information on the topic of late term abortion. In it you’ll find some inconvenient truths for the pro-abortion camp. Among those are: 1) there are (at least) several thousand late term abortions every year in the US conducted for flippant reasons, i.e. not having to do with fetal anomalies or the life of the mother being at risk; 2) at least a few thousand late term abortions are performed each year in the US simply because the mother is already a single mother and doesn’t want to be raising another child on her own. (The reasons for the other half of the unnecessary late term abortions aren’t any better); and 3) there is no shortage of abortion clinics offering late term abortions. (Women seeking a late term abortion contacted 2.2 clinics on average before finding one that would perform their procedure as opposed to 1.7 clinics for women seeking first trimester abortions).

—-https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1363/4521013—-


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"Truths" 1 and 2 are essentially the same: thousands of late term abortions done every year for flippant reasons;

Week distribution for when abortions are performed
1-6 weeks. 34.2%
7 weeks. 17.8%
8 weeks. 13.3%
9 weeks. 8.9%
10 weeks. 5.6%
11 weeks. 4.7%
12 weeks 3.5%
13 weeks. 2.8%
14-15 weeks. 3.5%
16-17 weeks. 2.1%
18-20 weeks. 2.0%
after21weeks 1.3%

It's highly unlikely that the 1.3% of abortions done after the 21st week are done for "flippant". reasons. It is more likely that a wanted pregnancy has gone seriously wrong. No doc would perform an abortion on a normal, healthy viable fetus (after 24-26 weeks). They would lose their license and their livelihood by doing so.

Guttmacher Institute survey: reasons for abortion:

Not ready for a child or another child ………….. 25%
Cannot financially support a child ……………… 23%
Have other people depending on me.. .………….19%
Unstable relationship with father or other………….8%
Not mature enough………………….………………..7%
Job and education leave no time for a child……….4%
Health of mother………………………………………4%
Health of fetus…………………………………………3%
Incest, rape, family and father want abortion……….2%
Other……………………………………………………6%

How exactly, have you determined that women' attitude was "flippant"? You may choose to label as "flippant" the 1.3% of abortions after 20 weeks, but seems more like a pejorative rather than a reason.
 
Yeah it’s a study done by a liberal trying to push back against legislation seeking to ban late term abortion. That doesn’t change the facts uncovered within it that I highlighted. Neither the conclusion you quoted nor the thesis of the article you linked justify murdering children.


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There are many intelligent and legal reasons to regulate abortion. Accusing Liberals of pushing, defining reasons as "flippant", using the term murdering inappropriately, and using judgmental terms is neither intelligent nor helpful.

It would appear that you had no other purpose for starting this thread than bashing women getting abortions. Everybody has already heard all of these accusations many, many times. They are irrelevant, unhelpful and silly.

If you want to regulate abortion then it needs to be legal. Making things illegal drives them underground where they are uncontrolled, unlicensed, unsanitary. Regulation is not possible if something is not legal.
 
Lol ok show me how the article doesn’t back up my points.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE
YOur article does not back up your original post.

When you post and article you need to be able to pull up facts that support your claims. You have done none of this.

It is not my job to back yo your assertions that you make.

I did point to the facts in it that support my points. You just seem to be ignoring them. Again, go read the article finally and tell me how anything I said is wrong.


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Why should a Woman wanting to have an abortion be required to give any reason at all? All that matters is that she has decided she does not wish to bring forth a child into the world.

The child is already alive. She’s deciding whether to kill it or not. Big difference.


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"Truths" 1 and 2 are essentially the same: thousands of late term abortions done every year for flippant reasons;

Week distribution for when abortions are performed
1-6 weeks. 34.2%
7 weeks. 17.8%
8 weeks. 13.3%
9 weeks. 8.9%
10 weeks. 5.6%
11 weeks. 4.7%
12 weeks 3.5%
13 weeks. 2.8%
14-15 weeks. 3.5%
16-17 weeks. 2.1%
18-20 weeks. 2.0%
after21weeks 1.3%

It's highly unlikely that the 1.3% of abortions done after the 21st week are done for "flippant". reasons. It is more likely that a wanted pregnancy has gone seriously wrong. No doc would perform an abortion on a normal, healthy viable fetus (after 24-26 weeks). They would lose their license and their livelihood by doing so.

Guttmacher Institute survey: reasons for abortion:

Not ready for a child or another child ………….. 25%
Cannot financially support a child ……………… 23%
Have other people depending on me.. .………….19%
Unstable relationship with father or other………….8%
Not mature enough………………….………………..7%
Job and education leave no time for a child……….4%
Health of mother………………………………………4%
Health of fetus…………………………………………3%
Incest, rape, family and father want abortion……….2%
Other……………………………………………………6%

How exactly, have you determined that women' attitude was "flippant"? You may choose to label as "flippant" the 1.3% of abortions after 20 weeks, but seems more like a pejorative rather than a reason.

The article linked is also part of the Guttmacher Institute I believe, and according to it, a MINORITY of late term abortions are done because of a threat to the mother’s life or some fetal anomaly. The majority are done for many of the reasons you listed. Not wanting another child, having a bad relationship with the father, etc are flippant reasons to KILL your child. You have to put it in perspective. We’re talking about murdering an innocent child. Those are flippant reasons.


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There are many intelligent and legal reasons to regulate abortion. Accusing Liberals of pushing, defining reasons as "flippant", using the term murdering inappropriately, and using judgmental terms is neither intelligent nor helpful.

It would appear that you had no other purpose for starting this thread than bashing women getting abortions. Everybody has already heard all of these accusations many, many times. They are irrelevant, unhelpful and silly.

If you want to regulate abortion then it needs to be legal. Making things illegal drives them underground where they are uncontrolled, unlicensed, unsanitary. Regulation is not possible if something is not legal.

The author admits that the purpose of the article is to push back against that late term abortion banning. And her arguments throughout and in her conclusion section are directed at the legislation.

When we’re talking about murdering your child, reasons like “I don’t want another child; I have a bad relationship withy the father; and I’m addicted to drugs” are flippant. You have to put it in perspective.

When it was legal to kill your slaves would you have objected to calling that murder? No. You’re playing a silly semantic game. If the law were just, killing your child in the womb would be illegal, so I’ll continue calling it murder.

I’m sorry if you find my plain statement of facts “judgmental,” but frankly, I’m not concerned with offending those who defend infanticide.

If you’ve already heard all of this before and it’s so silly, why don’t you show me how my statements are not supported by the study. We both know you won’t. You’re the one who’s not interested in having a rational discussion.

The same “keep it legal so you can regulate it” argument can be made for everything that is or should be illegal. Why not make it legal to hire a hitman? That way you wouldn’t be forced to find some dangerous psycho on your own and possibly get killed. You can just go to the I-hate-my-husband kiosk in the mall and grab a business card of a hitman with a good record. If banning unnecessary late term abortion forces a woman to seek back alley means of killing her child, then I hope she gets caught in the act and thrown in jail.


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The child is already alive. She’s deciding whether to kill it or not. Big difference.


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If its inside of her she gets to make the call.
 
If its inside of her she gets to make the call.

So if I were a tub of lard and I envelop my infant child in my fat rolls I can kill it if I want? How about if it’s a tiny premature infant and I stick it up my fat ass? You don’t actually believe in the principle you’re espousing.


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