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“The abortion rate was lower ... where more women live under liberal abortion laws.”

year2late

year2late

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Interesting opinion piece.

Here is the fact that everyone debating abortion should know: there is no association between its legality and its incidence. In other words, banning abortion does not stop the practice; it merely makes it more dangerous.

The abortion debate is presented as a conflict between the rights of foetuses and the rights of women. Enhance one, both sides sometimes appear to agree, and you suppress the other. But once you grasp the fact that legalising women’s reproductive rights does not raise the incidence of abortions, only one issue remains to be debated: should they be legal and safe or illegal and dangerous? Hmm … tough question.

There might be no causal relationship between reproductive choice and the incidence of abortion, but there is a strong correlation: an inverse one. As the Lancet’s most recent survey of global rates and trends notes: “The abortion rate was lower ... where more women live under liberal abortion laws.”
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Who’s driving high abortion rates? It’s the religious right | George Monbiot | Opinion | The Guardian

This article inforces what I have been saying all along. Availablity ,financial accessibility , and safety improvements to contraception (especially long term forms) are a huge key in greatly reducing abortion rates. Similar plans for long term contraception for men would make that number drop even further.
 
Very interesting article.

Fortunately, they wont be able to make having an abortion illegal in America. Even if they limit the procedure in certain states, there will be states that provide it. And lots of donor $$ taken from those states to help the women that need to travel.


But yes...good confirmation that shows that making abortion illegal only punishes women, driving them to other locations and more dangerous procedures, and doesnt protect the unborn significantly more. OTOH sadly, I'm pretty sure that's just fine with a great number of pro-life supporters.
 
LOL, what do I post all the time?

Young people have sex, whatever their elders say – they always have, and always will. Those with the least information and the least access to birth control are the most likely to suffer unintended pregnancies. And what greater incentive could there be for terminating a pregnancy than a culture in which reproduction out of wedlock is a mortal sin?

Who’s driving high abortion rates? It’s the religious right | George Monbiot | Opinion | The Guardian
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IMO In general, the religious right really is just more interested in punishing women who's behavior they disapprove of, rather than actually protecting the unborn. And this article reinforces that observation.
 
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Lursa said:
LOL, what do I post all the time?



IMO In general, the religious right really is just more interested in punishing women who's behavior they disapprove of, rather than actually protecting the unborn. And this article reinforces that observation.
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And from that same article....
Facts – who needs ’em? Across the red states of the US, legislators have been merrily passing laws that make abortion clinics impossible to run while denying children effective sex education. In Texas, thanks to restrictive new statutes, over half the clinics have closed since 2013. But women are still obliged to visit three times before receiving treatment: in some cases this means travelling 1,000 miles or more. Unsurprisingly, 7% of those seeking medical help have already attempted their own solutions.

The only reason why this has not caused an epidemic of abdominal trauma is the widespread availability, through unlicensed sales, of abortion drugs such as misoprostol and mifepristone. They’re unsafe when used without professional advice, but not as unsafe as coat hangers and household chemicals.
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I have been saying this for years. If for some fluke reason RVW is overturned abortions will still occur - and possibly increase. Abortion pills will become widely available. And the places where abortion clinics were nowhere in sight....well a drug pusher will be in sight - and more than happy to pick up the slack.
 
Today the US has one the lowest abortion rates of countries with legal abortions even though in many Countries in Europe limit abortions to the first trimester.

The rate in the United States in 2014 is lower than Sweden, Norway, Denmark , France, the United Kingdom and Canada.

(Please note * The following chart only lists legal abortions.)

Percentage of pregnancies aborted by country (listed by percentage)
 
minnie616 said:
Today the US has one the lowest abortion rates of countries with legal abortions even though in many Countries in Europe limit abortions to the first trimester.

The rate in the United States in 2014 is lower than Sweden, Norway, Denmark , France, the United Kingdom and Canada.

(Please note * The following chart only lists legal abortions.)

Percentage of pregnancies aborted by country (listed by percentage)
Click to expand...

Thanks Minnie.

Should abortions become illegal in this country...I think actual numbers of abortions will increase. We already have many on the pro-life side calling many forms of contraception "abortofacient" which in the atmosphere that allowed abortion to be made illegal...how far away from illegality could those methods be?

The fact is that people have been having sex both in and outside of marriage without desire to procreate for eons. Taking away a methods of contraception will of course lead to more abortions (whether legal or illegal). In fact putting a woman under time pressure (if she is going black market abortion pills) may push her to abort without having time to think how things could work out if she became pregnant - leading to even more abortions.

I think it would come to pass that it will be easier to obtain abortion in a post legal abortion world. Today abortion facilities are not in close proximity to many Americans....but I will bet there are drug pushers much, much closer (hint ask high schoolers) Will they be safer? Well, no. But pregnant women will risk this because they do not have abortions for trivial inconvenience. The abort because of fear for how they will support themselves before and after pregnancy. The fear job and housing loss. They fear inability to reach out of poverty. They fear inability to support their born children. They fear lack of decent medical care. Those inconveniences are not trivial.

Yeah, do away with Planned Parenthood and "abortofacient" drugs and make abortion illegal. See how it works out for your cause.
 
year2late said:
Thanks Minnie.

Should abortions become illegal in this country...I think actual numbers of abortions will increase. We already have many on the pro-life side calling many forms of contraception "abortofacient" which in the atmosphere that allowed abortion to be made illegal...how far away from illegality could those methods be?

The fact is that people have been having sex both in and outside of marriage without desire to procreate for eons. Taking away a methods of contraception will of course lead to more abortions (whether legal or illegal). In fact putting a woman under time pressure (if she is going black market abortion pills) may push her to abort without having time to think how things could work out if she became pregnant - leading to even more abortions.

I think it would come to pass that it will be easier to obtain abortion in a post legal abortion world. Today abortion facilities are not in close proximity to many Americans....but I will bet there are drug pushers much, much closer (hint ask high schoolers) Will they be safer? Well, no. But pregnant women will risk this because they do not have abortions for trivial inconvenience. The abort because of fear for how they will support themselves before and after pregnancy. The fear job and housing loss. They fear inability to reach out of poverty. They fear inability to support their born children. They fear lack of decent medical care. Those inconveniences are not trivial.

Yeah, do away with Planned Parenthood and "abortofacient" drugs and make abortion illegal. See how it works out for your cause.
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The Christian Right is intensely interested in controlling abortion. Should they succeeded in getting Roe v Wade overturned abortion will go underground and control will be impossible. Anyone could become an abortion provider. There will be someone ready to perform an abortion, at any time in the pregnancy, in every city and town in the US. The horrors of Dr. Gosnell's clinic will be multiplied a thousand fold.

If controlled and regulated abortion is you goal you better be campaigning to keep it legal not trying to ban it.
 
weaver2 said:
The Christian Right is intensely interested in controlling abortion. Should they succeeded in getting Roe v Wade overturned abortion will go underground and control will be impossible. Anyone could become an abortion provider. There will be someone ready to perform an abortion, at any time in the pregnancy, in every city and town in the US. The horrors of Dr. Gosnell's clinic will be multiplied a thousand fold.

If controlled and regulated abortion is you goal you better be campaigning to keep it legal not trying to ban it.
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I think it will be easier than that. The abortion pills will be available .....the feds will spend billions trying to play whack a mole with pushers providing these pills. Abortions will be cheaper, more available...but less safe. All these little towns without a Planned Parenthood or other abortion clinic.....they will have a drug pusher happy to provide for the woman in need. I have no doubt that men will take advantage of this as well...to dose their unsuspecting knocked up girlfriends.

Since these pills are only supposed to be used up to 9 weeks....my guess is that many women will jump the gun and take the pills before they really have had time to see a way to stay pregnant.
 
weaver2 said:
The Christian Right is intensely interested in controlling abortion. Should they succeeded in getting Roe v Wade overturned abortion will go underground and control will be impossible. Anyone could become an abortion provider. There will be someone ready to perform an abortion, at any time in the pregnancy, in every city and town in the US. The horrors of Dr. Gosnell's clinic will be multiplied a thousand fold.

If controlled and regulated abortion is you goal you better be campaigning to keep it legal not trying to ban it.
Click to expand...
I think it will be easier than that. The abortion pills will be available .....the feds will spend billions trying to play whack a mole with pushers providing these pills. Abortions will be cheaper, more available...but less safe. All these little towns without a Planned Parenthood or other abortion clinic.....they will have a drug pusher happy to provide for the woman in need. I have no doubt that men will take advantage of this as well...to dose their unsuspecting knocked up girlfriends.

Since these pills are only supposed to be used up to 9 weeks....my guess is that many women will jump the gun and take the pills before they really have had time to see a way to stay pregnant.
 
Those with the least information and the least access to birth control are the most likely to suffer
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I always find it interesting the pro-abortion folks blab about pregnant women having all the "information" possible in making a decision about their pregnancy, yet they vigorously oppose women seeing an ultrasound image of the baby, which provides the most information of all. And that is because, of course, pro-abortion people don't care a whit about babies OR women; it's all about the DOLLARS.
 
year2late said:
Interesting opinion piece.



Who’s driving high abortion rates? It’s the religious right | George Monbiot | Opinion | The Guardian

This article inforces what I have been saying all along. Availablity ,financial accessibility , and safety improvements to contraception (especially long term forms) are a huge key in greatly reducing abortion rates. Similar plans for long term contraception for men would make that number drop even further.
Click to expand...

Ok, well here is the OBVIOUS question no one is asking. If it is unknown how many or few illegal abortions people are having, how can it be determined abortions are higher in countries where abortion is banned? Doesn't this kind of flush the whole thesis of the article?
 
Mashmont said:
Ok, well here is the OBVIOUS question no one is asking. If it is unknown how many or few illegal abortions people are having, how can it be determined abortions are higher in countries where abortion is banned? Doesn't this kind of flush the whole thesis of the article?
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Within that article, the reference material from the Lancet which explains the methods.
 
Mashmont said:
I always find it interesting the pro-abortion folks blab about pregnant women having all the "information" possible in making a decision about their pregnancy, yet they vigorously oppose women seeing an ultrasound image of the baby, which provides the most information of all. And that is because, of course, pro-abortion people don't care a whit about babies OR women; it's all about the DOLLARS.
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Over 60 percent of women who seek an abortion already have at least one born child they are raising.
They have seen ultrasounds. If they are seeking an abortion their mind is already made up so the pro life argument making a woman see the ultrasound against their wishes makes no sense.

And yes the woman who seeks an abortion has to come with the money to pay for it.

An early abortion ( about $400) costs less out of pocket for women who do not have birth control insurance coverage than long term temporary birth control methods. ( about $800 to $1000 up front cost )

That is why I advocate that both pro life and pro choice work together making all forms of birth control available to women who want it.

Unless a pregnancy goes medically wrong women do not abort a wanted pregnancy.
 
Mashmont said:
I always find it interesting the pro-abortion folks blab about pregnant women having all the "information" possible in making a decision about their pregnancy
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Who the **** do you think you are to determine what others know and on what basis or how they learned it?
 
Mashmont said:
I always find it interesting the pro-abortion folks blab about pregnant women having all the "information" possible in making a decision about their pregnancy, yet they vigorously oppose women seeing an ultrasound image of the baby, which provides the most information of all. And that is because, of course, pro-abortion people don't care a whit about babies OR women; it's all about the DOLLARS.
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I don't know anyone who is proabortion.

As a proCHOICER, I oppose women being FORCED to view the u/s. If they CHOOSE to see it, that is fine.
 
Scrabaholic said:
I don't know anyone who is proabortion.

As a proCHOICER, I oppose women being FORCED to view the u/s. If they CHOOSE to see it, that is fine.
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Yea, they shouldn't have to face reality.
 
Just for the record. Beto recently stated his beliefs on Abortion. His stance is typical of the Pro Abortion camp. When answering a question during a town hall, he stated "If you were born on the 10th, you have more rights than you had on the 9th.
 
minnie616 said:
They have seen ultrasounds. If they are seeking an abortion their mind is already made up so the pro life argument making a woman see the ultrasound against their wishes makes no sense.
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Planned Parenthood deliberately conceals ultrasound images from the mother. If she sees moving hands and feet and realizes it's a person, that's bad for business..



That is why I advocate that both pro life and pro choice work together making all forms of birth control available to women who want it.
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Birth control is immoral. It trivializes and mechanizes the sexual act. It objectifies women. It frustrates the procreative act that sex is. That's why the Catholic Church opposes it.
 
prometeus said:
Who the **** do you think you are to determine what others know and on what basis or how they learned it?
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So why would you want such important information kept from the woman? Who are you to do that?
 
Scrabaholic said:
Should I have been forced to view the knee radiographs I had last week? Or the dental ones I had when I had my wisdom teeth out?
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Only if it might affect your decision whether to have the procedure or not.
 
Scrabaholic said:
I don't know anyone who is proabortion.

As a proCHOICER, I oppose women being FORCED to view the u/s. If they CHOOSE to see it, that is fine.
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If you consider abortion as an acceptable alternative, you are pro-abortion. Are you pro-choice on rape or armed robbery? Is it OK for others even if it's not OK for you? Of course not. So stop being dishonest with the semantics.
 
Mashmont said:
Birth control is immoral. It trivializes and mechanizes the sexual act. It objectifies women. It frustrates the procreative act that sex is. That's why the Catholic Church opposes it.
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Do you believe that anyone has the right to force your beliefs on women in America that dont believe the same?

To be clear, I'm asking about restricting the use of birth control and making elective abortion illegal.
 
Lursa said:
Do you believe that anyone has the right to force your beliefs on women in America that dont believe the same?

To be clear, I'm asking about restricting the use of birth control and making elective abortion illegal.
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Yes. Abortions should be illegal as should artificial birth control.
 
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